Devs: Why is it all or nothing?

[dragnmoon]

This is not going to be a popular idea.. ..

But the New crafting System should have been put into a Mod where there is no Level increase..

There is too much of a lack of support in this mod for the level increase.. That should have been their priority.

The crafting system took away from being able to fully support the level increase...

[Luthen]

The point of module 6 is to create items. While you have to do quests over to get multiple items, at least each time you do a quest, or run the vale, you get something to that end. Same with the raid.

The chests in the quests seem to hav a wide level range, which is something we normally don't get. I suspect they range from level 10 to level 16 in possible loot. My level 15 +3 vorpal battleaxe is an example, but I've also pulled level 10 items that were vendor trash.

To me it seems that they built these quests to encourage working towards the good pay off, rather then just running the minimum of the quest to get the most.

You can't run in and avoid everything to get certain chests. Take Dust, you have to kill at least the first two named guys to get the keys to defend the Spider Queen, just to get a chest. and it's a low level chest, being just a wooden chest. You then have to complete the last part to get at least one chest, of higher level.

If you want all 3 chests at the end, you do have to do the all that is required to get that. Clearly not a loot run.

Chamber, not a loot run, because of all the running you need to do, but that end chest seems pretty good, seen a lot of good things come out of, like my vorpal.

However if they had put in more chests, named loot, and not have the number of chests depend on how what you do in the quest, they would quickly become loot runs, with out consideration to moving towards the raid and making your items. Which from what we are seeing, are pretty awesome.

In otherwords, if they had put all that in, it would weaken the reason for actually running those quests. Oh lets not do Chamber, it's to long and to much going up the shafts. Besides the named loot stinks for my class.

There are lots of people that feel loot is to free and fast in the game, and that everything becomes a loot run in the end. This isn't that game anymore, or at least module 6 isn't. I think it's refreshing. One weekend of playing has moved me well along the way to creating my first item.

I am very OK with the chests being difficult to get. Why remove the chance for a named reward though? This game has such a flimsy connection to D&D right now. Why remove the ability to attain items owned by bosses with special abilities? Isn't it up to us to decide what's fun for each of us? Why is it OK and defendable of Turbine to again decide how they want us to have fun? Sort of defeats the purpose.

Don't get me wrong. The crafting system is definately going to be geared towards min max hardcore players. Not that it'll be impossible for the casual player to get items but certainly more costly. It'll be fun to have the +5 Vorpal Adamantine Shoehorn of DOOM that you can make for yourself. But where's the Hand of Vecna(sp?)? Not that I expect to see that particular item but I hope you get the idea of what I am getting at. Why were no named items placed in the Orchard or Vale but the Desert has a nice mix of them? I am not suggesting they put named items in every quest or chest but to put NO named items in any chests or quests is just not the best choice either.

[MysticTheurge]

Isn't it up to us to decide what's fun for each of us?

But what's fun for each of us is going to vary greatly from player to player. And Turbine has to try to please us all.

[Invalid_86]

I am very OK with the chests being difficult to get. Why remove the chance for a named reward though? This game has such a flimsy connection to D&D right now. Why remove the ability to attain items owned by bosses with special abilities? Isn't it up to us to decide what's fun for each of us? Why is it OK and defendable of Turbine to again decide how they want us to have fun? Sort of defeats the purpose.

Because the game has to be made and balanced for everyone, not just you.

[Luthen]

But what's fun for each of us is going to vary greatly from player to player. And Turbine has to try to please us all.

Understood. Your statement supports my complaint 100% MT. Even though I don't think you saw it that way. If what's fun for each of us varies so drastically then why do a complete 180 degree swing with regards to loot? That isn't taking many people into account. It only takes those who enjoy crafting into account. I want crafting in the game. It's good all around for people. I persdonally don;t enjoy crafting though. But it is yet another aspect or diversion for players to have in the game so it's great to have. I don't want crafting to be the primary focus of an entire Mod at the expense of a system that wasn't broken in the first place. There isn't a good reason they couldn't have done some of both. Or even mostly crafting but also some named drops for the flavor at a bare minimum in the pre-raid quests or Vale.

This is Turbines typical M.O. Pervert the requests of the player base into some outrageous version of what they think we wanted. MMOs are, often, gear based games. DDO is this way as well. It just so happens that DDO also has better player interaction and gaming then the majority of other MMOs. I do not speak for the entire player base but I also don;t think I am 100% wrong. Why must it always be that Turbine thinks in order to give us something we ask for they have to take away something that many people enjoy?

[Luthen]

Because the game has to be made and balanced for everyone, not just you.

Really? Not just me? Am I not one of their players too? And you need to explain to me how this is balanced:



Made and obtained in under a week of Mod 6 being released (and it is still upgradable). From running a raid which is not runnable by everyone out there. I can get through it. You may or may not but I know for sure many cannot and will not anytime soon. All I was asking for is level appropriate loot from quests in the game with already existing stats in some different combinations. Something they have been doing since day 1 and have decided to change 180 degrees away from that now? There is room for both in this game. Why create one at the expense of the other? It is not "balancing". in fact I argue that it is the opposite of "balancing".

[Borror0]

But the New crafting System should have been put into a Mod where there is no Level increase..

There is too much of a lack of support in this mod for the level increase.. That should have been their priority.

Agreed on that dragnmoon, that is my opinion too.

[studentx]

I have to say this is a huge mod:

1. A huge map.
2. Mobs with teleport abilities.
3. Atleast six new creature types and a few new classes for creatures.
4. 5 new dungeons.
5. One new Mod <---?got me =p
6. 8+ new spells
7. Three new specialization enhancement lines.
8. A new raid and no one has legitimately beaten the old one.
9. The new framework for crafting including some new items.
10. An attempt to fix archer.
11. An attempt to fix the invulnerable mobs, the ones running from you.
12. Trap changes.
13. Three new rogue abilities/feats.

I'm sure I'm missing several other things. This is a lot.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/01/28

[Dane_McArdy]

I am very OK with the chests being difficult to get. Why remove the chance for a named reward though? This game has such a flimsy connection to D&D right now. Why remove the ability to attain items owned by bosses with special abilities? Isn't it up to us to decide what's fun for each of us?

First, this is not crafting. If you keep that mind set, you are missing a lot. The reward system is using the crafting model to allow players to make a unique end reward, for doing these quests. And they are going to be some of the best items in game todate. It's called incentive. To give players an incentive to focus on the new mechanic for your reward for these quests, they designed the quests to encourage it. Hence, no named items.

And, this is one module with this. There is no saying this going to be the standard from now on. Turbine doesn't tend to make all it's modules work exactly the same. Dessert had named items in chests. Orchard had you collect items for named rewards, and named items in quest chests. Module 6 is allowing you to make very powerful items. Not one, but as many as you want. Unique items. You can say that the ability to create an item no one else will have is the trade off for no named loot.

Why is it OK and defendable of Turbine to again decide how they want us to have fun? Sort of defeats the purpose.

Um, this is rather a far fetched idea, that they are forcing us to have only one kind of fun. They are trying to make a wide varity of different game mechanics and different ways of doing things and results. They decide how to have fun? If you only like named loot, there is enough in the game for those that are inclined towards that.

Not all content will appeal to all people, and to think Turbine should limit it's self to doing it's content a certain way, is the players trying to control the fun others might like to have.

Don't get me wrong. The crafting system is definately going to be geared towards min max hardcore players. Not that it'll be impossible for the casual player to get items but certainly more costly. It'll be fun to have the +5 Vorpal Adamantine Shoehorn of DOOM that you can make for yourself. But where's the Hand of Vecna(sp?)? Not that I expect to see that particular item but I hope you get the idea of what I am getting at. Why were no named items placed in the Orchard or Vale but the Desert has a nice mix of them? I am not suggesting they put named items in every quest or chest but to put NO named items in any chests or quests is just not the best choice either.

Again, see above why. People are going to be leaving the Module 6 content, in time, with unique items no one else will have. Items better then most named loot.

[MysticTheurge]

Understood. Your statement supports my complaint 100% MT. Even though I don't think you saw it that way. If what's fun for each of us varies so drastically then why do a complete 180 degree swing with regards to loot?

Hmm, I guess I can kind of see that. But I guess my problem is that you're looking at one mod in a microscope.

Overall, we have a lot of named items, and very few crafting systems. So if I like crafting and you want named items, then you're still way ahead of me in terms of fun.

Which I guess is why I don't have any problem with them devoting significant time and energy to the crafting system this module, even if it meant no new named items this time around.

[Luthen]

Hmm, I guess I can kind of see that. But I guess my problem is that you're looking at one mod in a microscope.

Overall, we have a lot of named items, and very few crafting systems. So if I like crafting and you want named items, then you're still way ahead of me in terms of fun.

Which I guess is why I don't have any problem with them devoting significant time and energy to the crafting system this module, even if it meant no new named items this time around.

I am also still ok with the mod being primarily focused on the new system. I think it's a good system and some insane stuff will come from it so the Elite twitch in me is covered. I just don;t like seeing something new done at the expense of something that was working. 0 new named items is just lame. I guess I am a minority but I am ok with being the vocal minority. Same as with hating the idea of a raid that can yield zero named raid loot as opposed to a system which would at least guarentee one item for someone so it isn't a complete waste. Like Ive said... they're always doing this "All or nothing" crud with Mods and it's annoying. (Which is what they did after Mod 5 by removing the Warded 2 loot chests)

[Luthen]

Hmm, I guess I can kind of see that. But I guess my problem is that you're looking at one mod in a microscope.

"Question the answers" ~Mighty Mighty Bosstones

[Invalid_86]

Really? Not just me? Am I not one of their players too? And you need to explain to me how this is balanced:



Made and obtained in under a week of Mod 6 being released (and it is still upgradable). From running a raid which is not runnable by everyone out there. I can get through it. You may or may not but I know for sure many cannot and will not anytime soon. All I was asking for is level appropriate loot from quests in the game with already existing stats in some different combinations. Something they have been doing since day 1 and have decided to change 180 degrees away from that now? There is room for both in this game. Why create one at the expense of the other? It is not "balancing". in fact I argue that it is the opposite of "balancing".

These items should not have seen the light of day until we hit epic levels. But the fact that you can build something this "were they smoking crack?" overpowered really deflates any whining about not having named raid items in the raid. You aren't getting any sympathy here.

And it still doesn't mean that the whole game needs to change because you want more raid loot or because you don't think one raid is fun.

[MysticTheurge]

0 new named items is just lame.

I guess I can see this.

Of course only a few level 8 spells is also "lame." And no 15/16 enhancements is too. And while I have yet to make it into the raid, the number of quests in this module seems kind of "lame" too.

I'm certainly enjoying module 6, but it seems like it's missing a lot of stuff that it could have and on that level I'm kind of disappointed with it.

Either they've got something amazingly huge up their sleeves for 6.1, or something caused them to not be able to put the same amount of effort into Mod 6 that they've put into past ones.

[Luthen]

I guess I can see this.

Of course only a few level 8 spells is also "lame." And no 15/16 enhancements is too. And while I have yet to make it into the raid, the number of quests in this module seems kind of "lame" too.

I'm certainly enjoying module 6, but it seems like it's missing a lot of stuff that it could have and on that level I'm kind of disappointed with it.

Either they've got something amazingly huge up their sleeves for 6.1, or something caused them to not be able to put the same amount of effort into Mod 6 that they've put into past ones.

I understand that the crafting system was a huge undertaking. But seriously... you're right. This Mod is so minimal. When people can be flagged for a new raid in less then 8 hours of a Mod release and all the new content, minus the raid, is explored in that time as well then you have to question how much effort went into the Mod. The Mod seems to be a few quests and a raid built around a new crafting loot system. Once again an all or nothing proposition.