Crafting a joke

[MysticTheurge]

The D&D system is far superior to any of this garbage.

It's also entirely unreasonable to expect that kind of crafting here.

D&D crafting is, for the most part, a "magic item store." You put in X, Y and Z and get out the item you want.

If they wanted us to be able to do that, they'd have stores that sold those items.

Yes but that is my point by saying it isnt a concern for lower level players alienates about 50% of the player bases characters. Hence "crafting" is no where near something that can be achieved by all level of players (as it was billed to begin with).

We don't have "crafting." We have "prototype crafting" which is in the game in place of a set of static raid loot items for a high-level raid. So yes, it's for high-level characters.

Crafting, when it's added, will presumably be for a wider level range of characters.

Saying this prototype crafting system alienates 50% of the player base would be the same as saying the addition of Gianthold and the Raid there alienates those same people. Mod 6, and the prototype crafting system it includes, is high-level content.

[Dane_McArdy]

So your saying that giving content to only 50% of the player base when releasing the supposed mod to revive the game (remember they stopped giving regular content updates so they could release major content updates every month) is a success????????

That makes no sense. They didn't give content to just 50% of the player base.

If you don't have a character that is high enough to take on the new content, say because your characters are around 8-10, that would mean you can't take on other content, such as Module 5. Sure you can run the orchard, but I belive the quests you have to be level 11 to get any XP out of them.

Level 12' can run the Vale, but the quests are to high a level.

Which only means in time, your characters will level up and be able to do the content. Because as it is now, if you are max character is only between level 8 and 12, there is still much for your character to do and experience, so it's not like there is nothing to do for those players. All it means is that most likely, new content will always be added before that player can get to it.

They are always going to have new, because of the time they play, and never have to worry that they are getting bored doing the same stuff some players experience.

The crafting in the raid is exclusive to that content. And just like any named item or raid loot that is exclusive to raids and quests, you can't have it till you can do those quests and raids yourself. No difference here, just they made the reward for this module flexiable and customizable.

[Bombalo]

I think the main problem is what you keep saying Dane....we didnt get crafting. Period...end of story. We got a new raid loot mechanic...saying we got crafting is a flat out lie..

[Dane_McArdy]

We don't have "crafting." We have "prototype crafting" which is in the game in place of a set of static raid loot items for a high-level raid. So yes, it's for high-level characters.

Crafting, when it's added, will presumably be for a wider level range of characters.

Saying this prototype crafting system alienates 50% of the player base would be the same as saying the addition of Gianthold and the Raid there alienates those same people. Mod 6, and the prototype crafting system it includes, is high-level content.

We do have some crafting that is availble to everyone, the Stone of Change, which doesn't require any exploring in the vale, as everything you need comes from the rest of the game, or black anvil mines, and I'm sure we will see more added over time to these Stones that comes from existing content.

[Dane_McArdy]

I think the main problem is what you keep saying Dane....we didnt get crafting. Period...end of story. We got a new raid loot mechanic...saying we got crafting is a flat out lie..

Guess, what, no one at Turbine said we were getting crafting. Not even hinted at it. We got told we are seeing the crafting prototype, as so many people have pointed out.

And yet they did put something in in terms of crafting which you keep ignoring, the stone of change, that is accessable to anyone any level, using stuff that comes from the current content, not the new content.

That is part of crafting.

People talk about crafting in the new content, because who's going to continually call it prototype raid loot crafting?

[Bombalo]

Your forgetting one thing here dane...other than existing ore and dragon shards (not fragments) you cant get any of the necessary items to do the "crafting" that your talking about unless you run the new content (hence no low level crafting).

[jacobzzz]

by the time you finish the five quests you should have what you need maybe a couple items less so lets say 7 quests: should be no more than 7 hours.
the raid: in the first part there is a possible of 3 items to drop, it takes 20 mins to do, so lets say it takes you 7 runs: 2 hours and 20 mins.
in the second and third part there are a possible of 3 chests that drop items and 2 ingredients can drop in each chest: so by the 7 runs you will have more than enough and these two parts should only take around 30 minutes. 3 1/2 hours
So, in 12 and a half hours you should have more than enough items to upgrade your greensteel weapon twice... time consuming? i think not, just depends on whether or not you can get solid group/raid groups together. As for the last upgrade... well it should take some time but there are two ingredient chest which drop 1 ingredient each... 6 runs ideally, probably more around 8 or 9, which prolly will take some time but not the endless hours you all seem to be talking about

[Milolyen]

Your forgetting one thing here dane...other than existing ore and dragon shards (not fragments) you cant get any of the necessary items to do the "crafting" that your talking about unless you run the new content (hence no low level crafting).

One thing you are forgetting ... this is not really "crafting" but a prototype for it. The "crafting" that was implemented with mod 6 is basically create your own raid loot and is kind of a teaser to the way that they ARE going to implement crafting. They put in the ore and shards so that we can bind and harden our existing gear. They had said that crafting will be fully implemented in a future update(or mod ... don't have exact quote) and that this is just a sample of what is yet to come.

Given that this "crafting" is basically create your own raid loot ... of course it is going to come from the raid and its prequests.

Milolyen

[Dane_McArdy]

Your forgetting one thing here dane...other than existing ore and dragon shards (not fragments) you cant get any of the necessary items to do the "crafting" that your talking about unless you run the new content (hence no low level crafting).

No, you just don't understand. Because you don't seem to understand how the new content works.

If you got any of those items, you wouldn't be able to use them in the Stone of Change. They only work in the new content, and with certain eldritch devices.

Basically, the end reward for the raid you make as you complete the content. That's what all the items are for, and nothing else.

It's like sigil pieces for the abbot raid, only come from Module 5. Shield and tome and taps only come from Module 5. This is exactly the same mechanic, only you get choices on how to combine the items for you. Unlike module 5, where after collecting all the pieces you need, you get a choice of 1 of X items.

However, this method is also how we are going to see crafting. Collect certain items, combine in differnet ways, to make new items.

I bet the next thing we see will be the ability to make admantine items and armor, from the BAM ores. And then we will be able to upgrade to have things like resists, stat increase, and more. So you can make say, a sword, and then as you progress, collect ingrediants to add effects. All of which will come from all existing conent. But you won't see the stuff you get from Module 6 being available outside of module 6.

[uncus2]

As far as drawbacks are concerned, however, this is an absolute coup for the plat farmers, as they now will probably throw all their energy into grinding for components and selling them for tons on the AH. I would not expect to see components in lots of 20 for less than 1 million GP, similar to the price of dragon scales.

Oh well... someone is obviously buying from them as the problem has not gone away.

Yup - the crafting system is set up perfectly for plat sellers. As an off-again, on-again casual player [I only subscribe when I know I will have time to play] I am nowhere near capped, but would love to be able to craft [as you could do in PnP -I Know "this isn't PnP!"]. This system means I will have to buy plat to afford to craft...

A better system would allow ingredients of ALL levels to fall and items of ALL levels to be crafted. All magic users and clerics should be able to scribe scrolls as a free feat...make one of the ingredients per formula rare and it's all good. By rare, I mean Icon of Khyber rarity [One per 4-6 dungeons in my experience]. All other crafting are Feats available at certain levels [potions at 3rd, I recall]. It would have given something to uncapped, untwinked characters.

I know DDO wants to keep their base of players, but offering something to lower levels AS WELL AS [not in place of] capped or nearly capped levels would allow new people to actually join the subscriber base and not feel alienated. Or does LOTRO keep DDO afloat?

[Bombalo]

We do have some crafting that is availble to everyone, the Stone of Change, which doesn't require any exploring in the vale, as everything you need comes from the rest of the game, or black anvil mines, and I'm sure we will see more added over time to these Stones that comes from existing content.

Hummmmm...I believe you call this crafting...you happen to look at any of the formulas yet....to bind an item you require shard fragments...only avaliable in the new area...to perform the addy ore ritual you require soul gems (only attainable by using the level 8 spell trap the soul which requires more fragments.....so um pick a point and stay on it.......either we have crafting (which you state here) or we have a new raid loot mechanic.

[MysticTheurge]

shard fragments...only avaliable in the new area...

Well, see, there's the problem.

You've been misinformed.

[Dane_McArdy]

Hummmmm...I believe you call this crafting...you happen to look at any of the formulas yet....to bind an item you require shard fragments...only avaliable in the new area...to perform the addy ore ritual you require soul gems (only attainable by using the level 8 spell trap the soul which requires more fragments.....so um pick a point and stay on it.......either we have crafting (which you state here) or we have a new raid loot mechanic.

Then you haven't read correctly, or misunderstood.

First, Khyber fragments for soul gems drop outside the new content, and they are going to up the drop rate, and it also seems it's for quests level 9 and up. But they drop everywhere. They are also able to be sold on the AH, so if a level 4 wants to make an item harder, they could always by a soul gem.

So, you can bind and attune (in the same ritual) any item with Khyber shards. This stops the item from taking any perma damage from any non death damage. Say, a rust monster. There is no level limit or need to enter the vale for this, as everything you need comes from anywhere in the game.

The adamantine ritual requires a soul gem, but getting one of those isn't exclusive to the new content either, just harder, since it does require a level 15 wizard/sorcerer.

[Borrigain]

If crafting is susposed to be a time sink for me to play around with when not adventuring......

It ain't working that way.

Well, unless all I want to do is make blanks and Tier 1 items.

Problem is, trying to use the devices in Invasion and after puzzles is frustrating. Why? 3 reasons mainly.
1) Everyone is buffed for next part and want to get to next stage (party lacks patience to let me stand there and try combos).
2) by this time my pack is full and I have to take out a item from ingredient bag to put in inventory to then place in device. I'm seeming to spend more time taking out/putting in, finding what I can destroy to make room, while the whole party is waiting (aaarrggg!).
And most importantly 3) I have to be with a raid group to even get there to try things. It would be nice to be able to do this "crafting" of combos while solo just killing time.

So, main problem to me is making Tier 2 and 3 items. I feel way too rushed to enjoy the "puzzle" of figuring out combos.

That said, solution time.

problem 1) not much you can do. So we'll just ignore this as you can't program patience.
problem 2) let me be able to drag the ingredient out of the bag directly into the device. Or when it goes into the device, take it out of my inventory so I have room to pull more stuff out.
problem 3) somehow make the other devices available to me. Like after you have completed those stages of raid, the device chick in Meridia can "teleport" me to that one device I want to visit (that I have already visited). And I can recall back to Meridia when I'm done.

As it stands now, it's just too much of a PITA to try to get a whole group together just so I can kill some time trying to figure out recipies.

Any other ideas?
Borr.

[krud]

So your saying that giving content to only 50% of the player base when releasing the supposed mod to revive the game (remember they stopped giving regular content updates so they could release major content updates every month) is a success????????

The 50% of the player base that hasn't got to high level still has plenty of content to go thru, even without crafting (not to mention figuring out the game, classes and builds in general). The 50% of the player base that has got to high level doesn't have as much content to choose from, so the added "grind" has more impact for them.

[Aeneas]

We do have some crafting that is availble to everyone, the Stone of Change, which doesn't require any exploring in the vale, as everything you need comes from the rest of the game, or black anvil mines, and I'm sure we will see more added over time to these Stones that comes from existing content.

Obviously you haven't tried to get the soul gem component for this spell that you say everyone is able to acquire - i bet 10 people game-wide haven't done an adamantine ritual yet.

You need ten thousand fragments for the CHANCE to successfully trap 10 earth elementals (of CR 6 or higher i believe) and you also need a level 15 wizard or 16 sorc to cast the spell for you.

[uncus2]

Then you haven't read correctly, or misunderstood.

First, Khyber fragments for soul gems drop outside the new content, and they are going to up the drop rate, and it also seems it's for quests level 9 and up. But they drop everywhere. They are also able to be sold on the AH, so if a level 4 wants to make an item harder, they could always by a soul gem.

So, you can bind and attune (in the same ritual) any item with Khyber shards. This stops the item from taking any perma damage from any non death damage. Say, a rust monster. There is no level limit or need to enter the vale for this, as everything you need comes from anywhere in the game.

The adamantine ritual requires a soul gem, but getting one of those isn't exclusive to the new content either, just harder, since it does require a level 15 wizard/sorcerer.

"A level 4 could buy a soul gem" - perhaps an alt could, a "main" couldn't come close to affording it! [Without buying plat...]

It appears that what has happenned is that Turbine has mislead more than a few of us by calling this "crafting" when what it really is, is more l33t raid loots. I resubbed for a month to try the crafting, guess I should have waited [noob!] Such deception, whether intentional or not, is NOT the way to maintain/build a player-base!

[wamjratl1]

So far as I have noticed, the crafting items are a guaranteed drop in the 5 Vale quests at a rate of 1 or 2 + the Shav Stone. The rare encounter chests have a lower drop rate, and you only get 1 item (so far as I have looted to date), but they are definitely out there. The shards seem to drop from anywhere, as I got a few hundred of the yellow shards from a chest in the Reaver raid, and a few hundred of the black ones from the desert.

Yeah, its gonna take a while to get the items to make stuff, but thats the whole point, I think. Even with bad rolls, you still have to run the raids 20 times to get your choice of stuff. 2 1/2 days between raids run on a tight schedule is still almost 2 months of game time to get the choice you want, so I don't see that it is too much difference, really. Give it more than a week though, before dooming the whole system.

Yup. I saw shard fragments dropping in Delera's the other night. So you can start collecting those waaaaaay before you get to the Vale. Of course, I didn't get any...

[Dane_McArdy]

First, Turbine didn't call it crafting. If you had actually read what they said, we are seeing the prototype to crafting and the first stages.

Actually, whats the point in trying to explain? You have your view, and if I keep trying to explain, your just not going to read or listen but just get madder.

[wamjratl1]

This may very well be the case but I don't know about you but my plat pile has been dwindling quickly with the new improved all you stuff is broken death penalty. If we start getting spams to buy plat at increasingly higher prices then it will be safe to say the plat farmers have won.

This is confusing to me - I have run several quests since the new death penalty and have died PLENTY but still managed to profit off of every quest I've run. My repair bills are defintiely higher but nothing too shocking. This makes me wonder: Are people leaving stuff in chests? I see it all the time at all levels and it always surprises me how folks leave fairly decent, sellable itmes in chests. I have always been a "grab everything and sell it" kind of player and even try to pick up the copper and silver piles on the floor that folks leave behind from breakables. Honestly, it's how my characters have survived the lower and mid levels. I am a casual player so I don't have any raid loot and haven't pulled that many uber items to sell, etc. Maybe the new death penalty will have us all re-think our position and not taking free cash for granted.

As far as the current crafting sytem goes, it makes sense to me that casula players (like me) are not going to be the first to have their awesome crafted items as quickly as others. it's bee that way with loot since the beginning so I don't know why this would be any different. Sorry OP, but I do not agree with you. The system seems fine to me.