crafting - the grind to end all grinds but it doesn't have to be!

[VirieSquichie]

Kudos on implementing crafting, I know many people have been clamoring for it for a very long time.

Too bad it's targetted at the highest level of characters, and requires large amounts of farming. (ultra-high-level RAID quest farming at that) I mean, seriously...you have to collect the stuff to make an item enchantable in the first place. Then you have to collect more to make it have baseline abilities. Then you have to collect more and more and more to slowly work those abilities up to where you want...assuming you can figure out the recipes or someone else is kind enough to figure them out for you and post them. And assuming you can get the particular things you need to drop, instead of a bunch of other clutter you may never want to use in a recipe.

Casual gaming simply doesn't come into play here.

What happened to the good old crafting of:
get a masterwork item of the type you wish to have crafted
get a few medium-rarity collectible things (the third tier of market/house collectibles would work great for this) that have sympathetic attributes to those you wish your item to possess (i.e. elemental ingots would work great for adding that 1d6 of fire damage to a weapon, etc.)
get a pile of gold to pay the vendor/craftsperson who puts it together for you

It's a good use for gems, too, since a standard gem of a particular value could be part of each recipe...no more ignoring the skittles in the chests because their haul-off value is too low, when they're also of use in recipes.

Masterwork items of other types could be implemented so crafted bracers, boots, gloves etc. could be made - not just weapons and armor.

I propose Turbine keeps on with the crafting they've implemented, for the cutting-edge uberplayers, but also implements the lower-end crafting with the more common collectibles and gems for the low-middle level ranges. If you're level 10 or below, shouldn't your eyes light up when you find rare collectibles, rather than pass them by as a worthless feature of the game? I have only seen a few players detour over to bookshelves, mushroom patches and even flowering plants lately, it seems like most everyone has realized the original sets of collectibles aren't worth collecting even at the lower levels.

I've got a couple casters that practically lived on lily extract for their first 8 levels or so, and before Gianthold was added in I was still turning in the stuff that produced cure wands...now it's not worth it since I can pull a 50k item from some random chests and sell it for a stack of cure wands...and let's not get into the worthlessness of SCROLLS as collectible rewards.

[Impaqt]

THe devs have said numerous times that this is "Prototype" crafting.....

Did you really have to start the thread off by Bashing people who like the system? I didnt do any "Grinding" last night and endd up with a fullbag of crafting componants.... Had to go buy a Medium bag even....

[MysticTheurge]

As far as I can tell, you need some basic components to make yourself an item (consider it part of getting flagged) and then you need to do the raid 1+ times to get the components you need to enchant the item (consider this the 1 in 6 chance of "getting an item" you'd have in other raids).

It seems like it's really not that much more grind-y than any of the other raid loot systems. But I guess we'll see how easy it is to get the types of components you need.

[VirieSquichie]

My point stands that this system is targetting mainly the most elite players and their most elite characters who already have most of the elite gear. It does relatively little for anyone who wasn't capped a week ago and practically nothing for anyone lower than level 10. (ooh, I can make an item bound so it doesn't take any damage...wait, I'll outgrow it in a couple levels anyway and it won't take much damage in that time, and I wouldn't be able to sell it or hand it down to a new character if I bound it...)

The collectibles that have existed for well over a year now have become next to worthless to most players. Gems have long been ignored by many as they're worth far less than the other items you can find in chests. Masterwork items are discarded or left abandoned in chests by even level 1 characters. It doesn't have to be this way, these existing items can find new purpose in a low-to-medium crafting system that even a casual gamer would find useful and interesting. And who wouldn't be interested in custom-designing gear that they have spent months trying to find in the dungeons, vendors and AH but either couldn't find or wouldn't spend millions of gold to buy from some platfarmer?

As a prototype system, it's a nice concept but it's once again a matter of Turbine aiming at the bored elitists and for the most part missing the new-to-middle class of gamers. I'm just saying let's spread the love and make use of the existing underused properties.

[Ghoste]

Hopefully, since it is just a prototype so far, the full deal will include lower level players. There is nothing to indicate so far that this won't be done.

[MysticTheurge]

It does relatively little for anyone who wasn't capped a week ago and practically nothing for anyone lower than level 10.

Uh, right. That's because it's prototype crafting to make high-end raid loot.

Prototype crafting means it's not the real crafting system which might actually offer something to people of all levels, but rather the practice run for that system.

But even just calling it "prototype crafting" means they're clearly planning to release a fuller version of this system at some time in the future. But it seems like you expect this prototype to be that fuller crafting system.

[Boldrin]

Are elite players the only ones that do raids??? I don't think so, if it takes a while for new players to craft, GOOD! it gives them something to look forward to.

[salmag]

Uh, right. That's because it's prototype crafting to make high-end raid loot.

Prototype crafting means it's not the real crafting system which might actually offer something to people of all levels, but rather the practice run for that system.

But even just calling it "prototype crafting" means they're clearly planning to release a fuller version of this system at some time in the future. But it seems like you expect this prototype to be that fuller crafting system.

This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

Crafting is:
1. Adding ranks to a Crafting (x) skill (you may want to add knowledge (y) skill as well),
2. Getting a Masterwork item,
3. Getting materials to craft "x" item,
4. Spending xp and gp to imbue said item,
5. Make a Crafting (x) skill check to get item, or
6. Failing a Crafting (x) skill check to blow up item and all ingredients.
7. Then you would have to start over in order to try again.

The higher your skill level the better chance you have to succeed, and the better imbues you can place on an item. Turbine has done a similar version of crafting in their Asheron's Call game, so I'm pretty sure it can be done here as well.

[Eregion2]

I'd rather them err on the side of caution rather than risk making customizable items too easy. I kind of like the idea of extraordinarily rare items, that means the customizable items will be kept very rare as well and the economy won't take a serious hit when everyday loot is rendered worthless in comparison with player-made items.

[salmag]

I'd rather them err on the side of caution rather than risk making customizable items too easy. I kind of like the idea of extraordinarily rare items, that means the customizable items will be kept very rare as well and the economy won't take a serious hit when everyday loot is rendered worthless in comparison with player-made items.

No one said it would be easy to craft weapons and high level loot. We only have so many ranks to give per level, and everything has a chance of being destroyed if you try to craft something out of your range. Also, It takes gold and XP to make items so you would still have to quest to get raw materials, as well as leveling to get more ranks.

Make the skills class appropriate. Only fighter classes (fighter, ranger, pally) can take the Craft Weapons and Craft Armor skill; Casters (wiz and sorc) can take the Craft Wands and Craft Magic Items skill; Healers (clerics and bards) can Craft Potions skills.

Place a limit on the amount of times you can imbue an item successfully. So if you want to make a masterwork longsword into a +5 ghost touch flaming burst longsword of greater undead bane would require 11 imbues (5 for the +5, 1 each for the ghost touch, flaming, and burst effect, and 3 for the lesser undead, undead and greater undead bane). Each time require more raw materials (which require more questing), more skill ranks in crafting weapons (which require higher levels), not to mention more gold and loss of XP each time you attempt it. Plus you have the chance to destroy your item each time you attempt it.

I don't think that's so easy.

[CrazySamaritan]

Crafting is:
1. Adding ranks to a Crafting (x) skill (you may want to add knowledge (y) skill as well),


5. Make a Crafting (x) skill check to get item, or
6. Failing a Crafting (x) skill check to blow up item and all ingredients.
7. Then you would have to start over in order to try again.

NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

That is NOT how crafting works.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...MagicItems.htm

You NEVER fail crafting, and you NEVER need to use a skill for magical items.

[CrazySamaritan]

Only fighter classes (fighter, ranger, pally) can take the Craft Weapons and Craft Armor skill; Casters (wiz and sorc) can take the Craft Wands and Craft Magic Items skill; Healers (clerics and bards) can Craft Potions skills.

#@(U%#$(% GAH!

1) the Craft skill is only in-game as Repair, and only works on non-magical items.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm

2) EVERYONE gets Craft as a class skill.

3) Clerics ARE CASTERS!!!

4) Clerics are NOT HEALERS!!!!!!

[Dane_McArdy]

This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

Crafting is:
1. Adding ranks to a Crafting (x) skill (you may want to add knowledge (y) skill as well),
2. Getting a Masterwork item,
3. Getting materials to craft "x" item,
4. Spending xp and gp to imbue said item,
5. Make a Crafting (x) skill check to get item, or
6. Failing a Crafting (x) skill check to blow up item and all ingredients.
7. Then you would have to start over in order to try again.

The higher your skill level the better chance you have to succeed, and the better imbues you can place on an item. Turbine has done a similar version of crafting in their Asheron's Call game, so I'm pretty sure it can be done here as well.

That's not crafting that's grinding buttons for months on end.

Paper DnD, never had you do that, it's assumed that as you grow in your craft, your skill in making items grew as well. You aren't required to make 500 paperweights to learn how to make your Magical Scepter of Smashall.

[Vormaerin]

I definitely DO NOT want to see a typical MMO grindathon crafting system implemented in this game. I think it is amusing that the OP thinks the system they are proposing is a grind. I suppose if you were really hard for a particular thing and unlucky, it might end up feeling like a grind to get it. But there is no running all over the landscape performing useless tasks solely for the right to do something useful later. Instead, you get the things you want incidentally *as you adventure*.

As mentioned, it is currently a 'customizable reward' system for the raid to see how it works and what kinds of things are done with it. Assuming it goes over well, I expect that we'll see it rolled out to cover lower levels as welll.

Oh, and don't forget: In p&p D&D you have to have feats, gold, and xp to do proper magic item crafting. One feat for scrolls, another for potions, another for weapons and armor, one for wands & staves, and one for 'everything else'. Oh, and you have to be a spellcaster. Luckily they aren't going down that path in DDO or everyone would have to have their crafting specced mage or regularly feat swap when they want to make something instead of adventure. Yawn...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Are elite players the only ones that do raids??? I don't think so, if it takes a while for new players to craft, GOOD! it gives them something to look forward to.

I don't look forward to grinds, I don't care whats at the end of it...because I won't grind so any grind leading to something good is something that makes me dislike DDO.

[Yaga_Nub]

I don't look forward to grinds, I don't care whats at the end of it...because I won't grind so any grind leading to something good is something that makes me dislike DDO.

But you already dislike DDO Lorien.

[Talcyndl]

Had to go buy a Medium bag even....

Where?

Thanks.

[Aesop]

This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

Crafting is:
1. NO
2. Getting a Masterwork item,
3. Getting materials to craft "x" item,
4. Spending xp and gp to imbue said item,
5. NO
6. NO
7. NO

The higher your skill level the better chance you have to succeed, and the better imbues you can place on an item. Turbine has done a similar version of crafting in their Asheron's Call game, so I'm pretty sure it can be done here as well.

in general NO

I myself would perfer a crafting system based mostly on PnP style Crafting... THis system is fine and dandy for making interesting high powered items via a raid but I would still like a PnP base crafting system

Aesop

[Elsbet]

Where?

Thanks.

They are available at the vendors that sell medium gem and collectible bags. I got mine in House P. I haven't checked yet to be 100% sure you can get them in the Portable Hole and Jouse J as well.

[MysticTheurge]

This "Prototype" is not crafting. It is questing for items that may or may not drop and placing them on a "combine" machine to craft for you.

It would be a bit naive to expect DDO crafting to be exactly the same as D&D crafting, especially since in D&D XP is a limited resource (and thus a legitimate cost for crafting) while in DDO it's an unlimited resource (and therefore not).

But that aside, as everyone else has pointed out, you're almost 100% wrong about how D&D crafting works. If you're going to complain about the differences, at least get it right.