Trap Dc

[Raithe]

Just to put the information in this thread as well, I went into VoN 5 on elite to check the blade traps there. They are somewhat difficult to avoid during the first disarm. I was failing on an 18(+31) (= 49), but they were doing no damage. I could walk around through both the blades and the lightning without losing protections, stoneskin, or taking any damage whatsover.

Something is broke.

[llevenbaxx]

So what you are saying is that a Pure(r) Rogue is a better trapsmith than someone who splashed a level or two of Rogue? That numerous levels of Rogue and further sacrifices might be needed to become viable at disarming -every- trap and not just the ones with the box on this side of the trap? Sounds like a lot of Rogue players just got their prayers answered. This will cause issues for my Cleric/Rogue who as of now only has one level of Rogue. I may be giving up more Clerical ability to give the Rogue ability a chance. Then again, that is the sacrifice for being good at numerous things instead of great at one.

With the sound of the current settings your clr/rog wont ever be able to get the traps w/o improved evaision because he a) doesnt have imp evaision to survive the traps and b) wont have a high enough ref save to make crappy ol regular evaision of any use.

Trust me, this is my 3..or maybe fourth run at this build. I have done absolutely everything I possibly can with feats, enhacements, equipment and even have the best rogue race. Basically this new development is saying only pure rogues can affectively trapsmith, once again havnt seen for myself yet.

BTW I have had a near pure rogue, they dont really need to sacrifice that much to be affective trapsmiths. The combination of class abilities, equipment and enhancements makes it pretty easy. I even chose human, not nearly the best race for the job. Sell that stuff somewhere else.

[Angelus_dead]

BTW I have had a near pure rogue, they dont really need to sacrifice that much to be affective trapsmiths.

Correction, they didn't sacrifice much. Maybe now they will need to sacrifice feats for Skill Focus Disable, if DCs went up.

[Impaqt]

With the sound of the current settings your clr/rog wont ever be able to get the traps w/o improved evaision because he a) doesnt have imp evaision to survive the traps and b) wont have a high enough ref save to make crappy ol regular evaision of any use.

Trust me, this is my 3..or maybe fourth run at this build. I have done absolutely everything I possibly can with feats, enhacements, equipment and even have the best rogue race. Basically this new development is saying only pure rogues can affectively trapsmith, once again havnt seen for myself yet.

Uh, No, from what I'm seeing thid new deveopement is saying WHoops, We put the wrong boost into the equation on Hard/Elite Saves....

36+ DC in Gwylans indeed.....

SOmething is broken.

[Impaqt]

Correction, they didn't sacrifice much. Maybe now they will need to sacrifice feats for Skill Focus Disable, if DCs went up.

Its not the Trap DCs that have changed (Reportedly) its the Saving throw when you stuble into it or have to disable it from within the trap......

[Gratch]

Search and Disable DC's did not increase (the Cabal search supposedly went down as well as solo dc's).

The trap damage (and possibly save dc's) appear to have gone up... especially on elite. It will be interesting to see if 200 hp squishies can survive even one hit of the Litany force traps on elite. Those traps on elite already had save dc's near 40.

If it's the trap dc's that have gone up... non pure rogues may actually be better - specifically those with 2 levels of Paly and divine grace kicking saves into 40's. L13/3 Rogue/Paly save masters?

[samagee]

Wow! Quest? Trap? Difficulty?

Delaras part 2 on elite for favor. The acid trap at the switch where a named archer is before you go up the stairs.

[llevenbaxx]

Correction, they didn't sacrifice much. Maybe now they will need to sacrifice feats for Skill Focus Disable, if DCs went up.

So great, that means that rogues will be trapsmiths and only trapsmiths... is that what we were all looking for? Way to design content for one particular build, at least I will be able to do normal content lol

I chose to MC for trapsmithing becasue it was a neat aside, not becasue I thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread. I have a pure wiz so sacrificing casting ability was really no big deal, I was fine with it. Now that I have all the ranks, feats, equipment, enhancements possible... the "right" race too, it will not be good enough.

Hopefully something IS broken and THEY(evil eye @ Turbine) will be fixing it promptly.

[Borrigain]

Thats great and all, I just hope they arent numerically eliminating anything but pure rogues from the mix. Trapsmithing is not a pure rogue specific activity, they shouldnt even have all the advantages they currently do. They already have the advantage via class feats(justifible) and the enhancement system(rather lame), if they are going to make improved evaision a must and jack the saves up to where a character cant possibly make them, alot more people will be *****ing than happy. Pure rogues cant be summed up as just trapsmiths, or were you just trying to get a rise out of people with MC rogues?.

It would kinda suck if I had to wait for the next level cap raise to be able to cast 7th level spells but if I need to pick up uncanny dodge for the traps Ill just have to make yet another sacrifice.

Not trying to get a rise out of you, after all, Borr is an 11ftr/4rog and does a lot of trap work. I'm just sayin that now, hopefully, traps will not be "ignored" anymore. You know, by the time you find it and disable it the party has just run thru it and is long gone around the corner....with barely a tick of damage. It often left me feeling "why should I bother?" Now, maybe, just maybe, some of the non-splash non-evasion types will wait for the rogue to do his job. As far a "splash", I was thinking along the lines that maybe instead of just splashing for evasion, one or two people will actually try to multi-class some rogue into the mix, try to make him/her somewhat viable as a "rogue".

But yes, I'm with you on don't make it soooo difficult that only spec'd trap monkeys can take it down. But maybe just difficult enough that splashes will have difficultly with it unless they have made an effort with their build to be able to trapsmith.

"I just want to feel needed again.....is that so bad?"


Borr.

[samagee]

Not trying to get a rise out of you, after all, Borr is an 11ftr/4rog and does a lot of trap work. I'm just sayin that now, hopefully, traps will not be "ignored" anymore. You know, by the time you find it and disable it the party has just run thru it and is long gone around the corner....with barely a tick of damage. It often left me feeling "why should I bother?" Now, maybe, just maybe, some of the non-splash non-evasion types will wait for the rogue to do his job. As far a "splash", I was thinking along the lines that maybe instead of just splashing for evasion, one or two people will actually try to multi-class some rogue into the mix, try to make him/her somewhat viable as a "rogue".

But yes, I'm with you on don't make it soooo difficult that only spec'd trap monkeys can take it down. But maybe just difficult enough that splashes will have difficultly with it unless they have made an effort with their build to be able to trapsmith.

"I just want to feel needed again.....is that so bad?"


Borr.

I have a lvl 8 rogue/ lvl 1 fighter. I can't tell you how many times people have just blown through a trap I was disabling.

[oronisi]

We need to get a dev response from this. I'm all for ramping up the trap damage, and maybe ramping up the DC a tiny bit, but it seems like overkill. This is coming from a guy who's main is a pure rogue (well I splashed 2 levels of ranger back when the game first launched). Nobody wants any class to be resentfully needed...they want to be wanted. Rogues would like to be a wanted addition to any group. I personally don't want to have to sign off of my wizard to play my rogue because he is absolutely needed to complete a quest. That just limits gameplay for everyone.

[Boulderun]

There's still a good reason to disable traps - xp bonus!

I ran everything norm-elite last night (except coalescence chamber, which is how it shall remain until that one is fixed). We managed just fine without a rogue. I choose to bring mine to Rainbow elite because we wanted to get the 4th chest (and I wanted to see how hard the traps were).

Nice to have, still not required.

[Raithe]

Nice to have, still not required.

Until you run quests on hard and elite. The DCs for normal weren't affected by this change.

(Combat): You receive a temporary bonus to Armor Class and Reflex saves.
(Combat): You attempt to save versus trap:fire. You roll a 9 (+35): save!
(Combat): You attempt to save versus trap:fire. You roll a 17 (+35): save!
(Combat): Your protection from energy: fire has been removed.
(Combat): Your greater heroism has been removed.
(Combat): You suffer 27 points of damage from Trap:Fire.
(Combat): You attempt to save versus trap:fire. You roll a 6 (+35): save failure!
(Combat): You attempt to save versus trap:fire. You roll a 11 (+35): save!

This is my main's combat log from the level 12 (on elite) part 5 of Cult of the Six. One of the four fire traps in the left wing of the temple did 150 (prot + resist) + 27 points of damage. If I had been hit by 2 of them (DCs > 41), I would have been dead. My character is level 15, and was buffed with greater heroism, haste, and uncanny dodge.

I don't think many level appropriate parties are going to be running elite without a rogue. Until the rogue can't find it, disable it, or fumbles and blows it...

Then it'll be Twilight Forge tunnels without the crystals.

[Westerner]

As others have said, I'm ok with upping trap damage, discourages zerging them. I am concerned about raising the save DC, as oftentimes you have to make saves in order to disable the trap. Even pure rogues will have a lot of trouble with some of the DC's reported.

[Mercules]

With the sound of the current settings your clr/rog wont ever be able to get the traps w/o improved evaision because he a) doesnt have imp evaision to survive the traps and b) wont have a high enough ref save to make crappy ol regular evaision of any use.

Trust me, this is my 3..or maybe fourth run at this build. I have done absolutely everything I possibly can with feats, enhacements, equipment and even have the best rogue race. Basically this new development is saying only pure rogues can affectively trapsmith, once again havnt seen for myself yet.

BTW I have had a near pure rogue, they dont really need to sacrifice that much to be affective trapsmiths. The combination of class abilities, equipment and enhancements makes it pretty easy. I even chose human, not nearly the best race for the job. Sell that stuff somewhere else.

Yeah... I am wondering what else I can do with him to get through those traps I will have to get through to disarm. Trapblast Goggles probably don't stack with Nightshield but I'll have to test that. Cleric/Rogue is going to be interesting. A Bard/Rogue would have a slightly better Reflex save... I might have to consider one.

As for the sacrifice, I wasn't talking about Pure(r) Rogues. I was talking about multi-classed ones. They might want another level or three of Rogue which means giving up other things. Alternately they might have to use feats to make up the difference. They, not the Pure(r) have to sacrifice to be good in two roles instead of splashing in a level or Rogue and being the nearly as powerful as normal arcane caster/trapsmith for the group.

[Shamguard]

I'm just wondering if the save DCs were raised, or it's just no one noticed the saves required before because the amount of damage the traps dealt was such a joke.
Even if you failed before you took so little damage no one cared about the save DC.
Now the traps do real damage and everyone is taking notice of the save DCs.

...

[Raithe]

I'm just wondering if the save DCs were raised, or it's just no one noticed the saves required before because the amount of damage the traps dealt was such a joke.
Even if you failed before you took so little damage no one cared about the save DC.
Now the traps do real damage and everyone is taking notice of the save DCs.

...

I happen to know that the old quad-fire trap on part 5 of elite Cult of the Six had save DCs less than or equal to 34.

The new DCs are somewhere between 42 and 44. That would represent a significant (could be +10 or more) increase.

So much for catering to new subscribers...

[Vormaerin]

There are way too many traps with the box inside or beyond them to have these kinds of DCs. I always thought that it was a pretty cool thing, the rogue using evasion and so on to get to the disarm point. But I can see it being pretty fatal now. And nothing was mentioned about the saves being harder, so I am inclined to suspect it to be unintended.

[Impaqt]

OK, Heres proof that the saves have gone into unreasonable territory..... LEVEL 1 QUEST Pictured here.. Sewer Rescue... On Elite.... Look at the save my 10Rogue/2Ranger/2Fighter FAILED.... I stripped down my Save as far as I could for testing... +22 Against Traps...... And FAILED my save on a 7... Made it on an 8.... for a CONFIRMED 30DC on the Blade Trap... I also tested the Piercing Spikes with the Same Result. FAIL on a 7, Save on an 8....... THis is beyond rediculous.....

[wizzy_catt]

yes its insane for lv1 quest on elite anyone know any lv3 character has +30 saves?
29dc and 44damage(highest number so far) per hit