ur new loot sack sucks

[barecm]

Since mod 5, I have done a lot of raids. Without a doubt over 100 successful ones if you count all toons across all the raids. Now, I do see plenty of raids where 2 items drop. Far less 3-4 item drops and only 1 5 item drop ever. None over 5 items. Most, if not all the raids were 11-12 man raids and a lot of them on Elite. Yes, there were probably a good bunch of 7-10 sized, but I also probably ran a lot more than just 100 raids too; so that probably comes out in the wash.

Point is, there have been at least 30% of the raids done where NOTHING drops. Zip, nadda. Ok, I am willing to accept that as long as there are some raids where 7-8 items drop. Odds on in 100+ runs that would happen maybe a few times. I am not even coming close to that... even on Elite (the raids that are SUPPOSED to scale)!!! The largest groups of item drop numbers have been zero and 1-2 itmes. At least 80%. Estimating based upon memory, I would say 50% of drops are around 1-2 items, 30% zero items, about 15% for 3 items and 5% for 4-5 (mostly 4). Again, this is my personal experience and I am sure others have their own.

I cannot get behind a system that is not really giving a fair roll. Based on the odds that are supposed to be happening on elite, 25% of the time we should get loot. That is 1 in 4. For an elite raid group of twelve, the AVERAGE should be 3 items, not 1. We should see an abundance of loot everyone in a while too... like 8 items or more dropping. However, I have NEVER seen or heard of that ever happening.

Makes me think they cut it off at 5-6 items regarldless of rolls.

[Esteban74]

no u all still are not getting it the 3 raid drops werent even mine thats just all i have seen i have gotten one pull and it was ****. not like i have gotten 3 pulls at this point i would say thats a good thing. and its not just the titan is the reaver the DQ and the dragon. if i have to wait 20 raids to get an item. it better be what i want. fix ur ddo.

[Kreaper]

I IS a random dice roll but I am still convinced that the dice are loaded.



Some are loaded to roll high. Some are loaded to roll low.



What I can't figure out is how I can keep rolling 0s on a 1d6...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I cannot get behind a system that is not really giving a fair roll. Based on the odds that are supposed to be happening on elite, 25% of the time we should get loot. That is 1 in 4. For an elite raid group of twelve, the AVERAGE should be 3 items, not 1. We should see an abundance of loot everyone in a while too... like 8 items or more dropping. However, I have NEVER seen or heard of that ever happening.

Sorry, but you have misunderstood the system. The can scale UP TO 1/4 on elite, DEPENDING ON THE RAID. Only Von6 & the Abbott scale to 1/4, the rest are somewhere between 1/6 and 1/4. Check Dev Tracker for a comment made yesterday on this subject if you don't believe me.

[Riorik]

Since mod 5, I have done a lot of raids. Without a doubt over 100 successful ones if you count all toons across all the raids. Now, I do see plenty of raids where 2 items drop. Far less 3-4 item drops and only 1 5 item drop ever. None over 5 items. Most, if not all the raids were 11-12 man raids and a lot of them on Elite. Yes, there were probably a good bunch of 7-10 sized, but I also probably ran a lot more than just 100 raids too; so that probably comes out in the wash.

Point is, there have been at least 30% of the raids done where NOTHING drops.

I have no idea if it's relevant but I've done a few more than 100 raids (but probably not much more...140? 160?) and I've seen 5-7 items drops - it's not often, but have seen it...that's not to say they were more than 5+ GOOD items, just that it's happened for me.

Recently, it's been a lot like somebody flipped a switch - elite Reavers with 0-1 items in it (lot of 0 runs). Could just be overall luck - but the frequency change was a lot like flipping a switch...highly subjective but...

[Yukiko]

I myself have gotten 4 raid items in 6 runs

[Elsiah]

i've done a total of 10 reaver runs with my toons, and i've had 3 raid items drop for me. In my entire DDO career (from day 1 of retail) i've had 1 vorpal, 2 para weapons, 1 banisher, and 1 smiter drop for me. That's from more than 1000 giant cave runs, well over 500 relic, god knows how many POP runs, and GH in general, pretty much non-stop for the entire time the game's been going.

I couldn't be happier.

The OP needs to take a hard look at his items for sale or trade thread and reconsider how badly this game is treating his loot pulls. Simply because we are not catered to does not mean that the devs are out to get us.

Next thing you know, players will be complaining about the HUGE amount of content being added in mod 6. I mean, yeah, its only a few quests, but 1200 base recipes to improve all of your stuff?! that's NUTS! i could build a toon just to store all my ingredients on....

[GuitarHero]

I myself have gotten 4 raid items in 6 runs

On my rogue:

My first time ever getting at the dragon (my first and last raid in the old system) the KDS dropped. Everyone else that would use it already had it, so it defaulted to me....

My very first time at the Reaver under the new system, Treason! And the cleric pulled the ventilated bracers! Like two runs later, the madstone boots!

Plus a buncha stuff i gave to other players because i didn't need it.

[Zenako]

Hate to break it to you about the hard reality of odds, but they are what they are. The vast majority of players fall somewhere in the middle of things. The few lucky ones tend to be low key about it in general so as not to come off as bragging. Those who fall into the other end of the distribution curve will whine and complain. But luck and randomness is just that.

Just like one player in my quild who personally pulled 5 Khardins Eyes on his toon, while bascially no one else pulled even a single one over about a 4 month span of time. That was an extreme result, but it happens. It is very easy to get long stretches of no results on things that are unlikely to happen in the first place.

And unless someone is keeping actual written down track of EVERYONE's pulls in the quest, I suspect observational bias is also kicking in. You tend to remember the specific disappointments a lot more than the meh results. I have seen some raids where abou the only way you would have known someone pulled a raid item was to look at the party chat log. The puller made no mention of it or a big deal, and it was usually something that the character could use, so they would not be trading/giving it away anyway.

[jjflanigan]

I'm going to go ahead and say that I think you are stretching the truth a little bit. There's no way that you did 20 full titan raids and saw a total of 3 raid item drops for the entire raid party.

[JD2134]

I like the new system, i seen the reaver drop seven items before with two of those items being +3 tomes. Then the very next run another +3 tome drop with 4 raid items total. I done the titan with the new system about 10 times or so only 2 or 3 times with a full group, generally it with 6-8 and i seen at the least one item drop for 6 people to a high of four items for a full party.

But under the old system i have never seen a tome drop in any raid, Under the new system i seen 4 +3 tomes and 3 +2 tomes drop. and i ran maybe two or three raids run more on the new system then the old. SO grow up and get use to it.

[BlueLightBandit]

47 Elite raids in the last 2 months.

One 20th raid list.

On the 20th list for a Sorc I got Madstone Shield, Amulet, Cloudburst, the Gauntlets that have useless cleric stuff on them, the Ventilated Handwarmers, and various items I already had. I was sorely disappointed. No Madstone Boots, and not a single Manual. Next time I would appreciate lubrication before being asked to bend over.

The total of items that dropped(only one raid was undermanned and it was by one person) for all 47 elite raids was 37.

That's 10 less total items than raids(and 11 of the items were those useless Ventilated Bracers that literally nobody wanted, as every rogue on the server flagged for SR has some already).

Explain.

Detail.

I expect results, not excuses, and don't bullsh*t me with "that's how the dice roll". That kind of cop-out answer will get heavy flames.

That's how the dice roll.

Now stop flaming, it's not acceptable.

Is the world really going to end because you didn't get one particular item? You were obviously successful enough on those raids to get 20 completions, so I doubt that it's causing you that much hardship.

[Oreg]

I find it hard to believe that you are having an issue with the quality of the loot, given the items you have up for trade (link in your sig).


[]

No Kidding!

[Oreg]

No way you ran 20 raids and only 3 pieces total pulled. So improbable it invalidates your rant for me actually.

[redoubt]

There was no guarantee before that you would get something useful for a dwarven fighter under the old system.

Not only do I sympathize with the OP... but I feel this statement is wrong as well.

While Websters definition will prove you correct, the old system with the guarantee of 2 items dropping, shortmanning and running with a guild or friends... well... thats as much of a guarantee to get something you need as you're ever going to get...

... thus they took it away. I'd still like it back please.

edit: I'm sure if I had the luck some of you do, I would like the new system better. My dice have said "the average loot drop for all your groups will be 2 or less." That is over 30+ reavers, a few dragons, a couple queens, and a dozen titans. From my two times going to Cydonie for a 20th reward I pulled ONE (yes, one) item that I needed. And that was a STR tome for my DEX ranger... still looking for that dex tome...

Sure, you say its in how the dice roll... my dice rolls want the old system back. :P

[Radsyn]

I do agree that the raid loot mechanic is broken. in over 100 reavers alone across 5 chars, i have hit 20th raid 4 times and 40th on my sorc, Not 1 tome in any of the end rewards and only 1 raid where 5 items dropped(normal of all things) Many Elite raids had no raid loot at all( maybe 20%). Broken yes, End of the world Nah

[weyoun]

From my spreadsheet of my 6 raiding toons:
# of raids = 321
total #of drops = 70
# of drops that were useful at the time they dropped = 42

overall drop % = 21.8%
useful drop % = 13.1%

This does include items gifted to me or won in rolls. But as I have given away 28 items I include them in the list (the number of items gifted to me or rolled on and won is far less than 28 btw).

Useful Item Drop rates per raid:
Queen 18.4% (9 of 49)
Dragon 10.4% (8 of 77)
Titan 10.4% (5 of 48)
Reaver 13.6% (20 of 147)

Useful items to me are items that have either 1) a specific build purpose (like the 7 fingered gloves on a UMD user or ventilated bracers on a rogue) 2) uber clickies (like jerky/seal) 3) permanently/frequently equipped items (belt of the brute, chattering ring, gauntlets of eternity). This also includes items that were useful at the time but have later become obsolete such as the dragon bracers, but does not include say, the Sword of Shadows I pulled for an /20th dragon on my non-meleeing cleric (chose that just to show a friend who has had SoS lust since the early days).

I'm a bit lucky and I have generous friends and guildies. I really enjoyed short-manning the titan, queen (as you can see from my drop rate there), reaver and dragon but those days are gone. Most vets know the raids so well that, in general, titans don't exceed 45 minutes, a reavers 20, and queens 10 minutes. VON 5/6 takes an hour maybe.

In general, I'm quite satisfied with the loot I'm getting. For most toons on most raids, 20 is plenty to get the main items you are after. One of my fighters is at 17 titan runs with only a +2 wisdom tome dropping and the gyroscopic boots dropping- but they dropped on run #12 and #13. Hopefully I'll get the ring or the belt at 20 but if I don't no big deal. I'll run it until I do.

The last 30 or so reaver raids have netted me 4 +3 tomes (2 drops, 2 end rewards). After running over 100 without one I never thought I would pull any. The only real point I'm making here is that more raids = more raid loot. I know how inane that sounds but its true. Its just a numbers game and you gotta keep plugging along if you want to see the drop rates normalize.

[Draclaud]

Even though this was posted in a way I wouldn't have done, I sympathise with the premise. I too dispise the "new and improved" loot system. It's aweful. I know some people like it but I don't. I'd like to see an option maybe to do it "classic" They already have different kinda party options you can check why not add the "classic" raid style? That way I can farm my SOS more effectively 8]. So a side note, the Titan does seem to be the lowest dropper of raid loot. DQ seems to be the highest ATM.

[juniorpfactors]

nice summary lysol.... i love the new raid loot system.... loot dropping like rain in raids

[Lorien_the_First_One]

nice summary lysol.... i love the new raid loot system.... loot dropping like rain in raids

Agreed. 1 item dropping is a rare enough event people tent to be surprised and saddenned a bit. 2-3 is common, 4+ happens with relative frequency. Of course your luck is your lick so experiences differ

Because of the easy repeats and the fast runs, I've done the most runs in Tor (one of the raids that don't fully scale to 1/4). I'm now up to about 40 tota Reaver raids on 3 chars. My bloody Rogue has never failed to walk away with one piece of useful raid loot on every single run. Some she pulled herself, some were gifts/roll wins, but she always got something. On her very first run she actually got two things as she pulled the ring of lies and two Treasons dropped and only two peple were interested in Treason on that run. My cleric can't get a raid pull in any raid to save her life (madstone shield is the only raid loot she has EVER gotten that was useful). Sorc goes down the middle somewhere, decent number of pulls, probably close to 1 usable piece for every 5 or 6 raids.

The dice roll where the roll... but the system itself is solid.