The Sounds of Silence

[arminius]

Dear Devs,

Are you tired of your dungeon designs being bypassed by high level casters, flinging WoF, PK, FoD, and FTS on everything that moves? Bards that Fascinate everything in their paths? Melees complaining that they are pointless?

You could counter this trend by slapping immunities on everything, making everyone even more disgruntled, or by investing gadzillions of man-hours into improving monster AI. Or, you could implement something that is already in the Paper and Pencil game.

I knew it as Silence, 15 Foot Radius. The current name is simply Silence.

Silence
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text or no (object)

Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.

Why is this spell not in the game? Why should level 20 enemies with 30 intelligence and 1000 hit points just give up and die because some hasted Bard has come around the corner strumming his lute? Enemy spell casters have Options, specifically crafted for just this sort of situation.

There are three major effects that this could have. Two are optional.

1. If the person in the radius fails the save, spells with Verbal components can't be cast. Casters can't cast, clerics can't heal, and bards can strum till their fingers bleed, to no affect whatsoever. Paladins can still Lay on Hands. I'm not sure about wands, do they have Verbal components to activate them?

2. The affected person should not be able to communicate. Shouting or typing, "I'm Silenced! Come help me!" would seem, well, odd at best.

3. The affected person should not be able to hear anything, including sound effects, voice chat, and seeing words in party chat. This effect would be creepy (and as cool as Blind is now), and the person would not know if anyone was coming to rescue him, except visually seeing the dots move.

The first effect is critical. The second two are optional because they'd probably involve a LOT more coding and troubleshooting. In addition, the coolest aspect of it (isolation) can be easily bypassed by Teamspeak or Vent. So, while they would be cool and nice to have, if the second and third effects become a major block for implementation, dump them.

If the major block for implementation is fear that we'll become overpowered by casting Hightened Silence on everything and everybody, then simply make it an Enemy Only spell, like Darkness and Incendiary Cloud are now. Darkness, in fact, would make a good template for Silence.

It just seems to me that using a Dungeons and Dragons solution to an issue beats the slapping around blanket immunities route any day. Silence is the primary anti-spell weapon in the game, useful at all levels with Heighten. I don't think we should be in the midst of an "OMG Casters are Overpowered" pandemic without considering the use of this pre-existing tool that has been play-tested and found effective and balanced for 30 years....

_

[bobbryan2]

Enemies don't cast darkness, they have obscuring mist, and incendiary cloud is a lvl 8 spell, and we'll be able to cast it soon.

Besides... silence requires a save, so it shouldn't be a big deal. There are already effects in this game that halt spellcasting. Feeblemind, That idiocy spell, madstone rage, etc. And they have their annoying moments, but a lvl 2 silence spell isn't going to do anywhere near the damage you seem to think it would.

That being said... implement it... we need more spells. Just don't give it to enemies only. Should be fun casting silence at low levels on kobold shamans.

[DSL]

Enemies don't cast darkness, they have obscuring mist, and incendiary cloud is a lvl 8 spell, and we'll be able to cast it soon.

Besides... silence requires a save, so it shouldn't be a big deal. There are already effects in this game that halt spellcasting. Feeblemind, That idiocy spell, madstone rage, etc. And they have their annoying moments, but a lvl 2 silence spell isn't going to do anywhere near the damage you seem to think it would.

That being said... implement it... we need more spells. Just don't give it to enemies only. Should be fun casting silence at low levels on kobold shamans.

Feeblemind is a level 5 spell, so Silence would be usable by lower-level casters and would be encountered by players fairly early on. However, the problem is that it could well be devastating in the hands of the players, as we tend to know exactly where the enemy spellcasters are, and could plant a pre-emptive Silence ball at each such location.

However, I expect that a big reason why it isn't in the game is the difficulties involved in having it actually impact sound effects and/or communication, thus cheapening its effect.

[Laith]

silent/still spell should be added along with.

it would great to add silence to the game, but it really wouldn't solve the problem you've set out to solve.

[bobbryan2]

Feeblemind is a level 5 spell, so Silence would be usable by lower-level casters and would be encountered by players fairly early on. However, the problem is that it could well be devastating in the hands of the players, as we tend to know exactly where the enemy spellcasters are, and could plant a pre-emptive Silence ball at each such location.

However, I expect that a big reason why it isn't in the game is the difficulties involved in having it actually impact sound effects and/or communication, thus cheapening its effect.

And his caster-angst is aimed at higher levels. It's clear that he thinks a simple lvl 2 spell with an appropriate will save would cause casters not to own the upper levels. And yes, we could use it rather potently... but considering how many people actually use feeblemind... I have a feeling people wouldn't use silence much after around 8th level or so.

[Laith]

I have a feeling people wouldn't use silence much after around 8th level or so.

it IS true that will-based effects to stop casting are an "interesting" concept.

[bobbryan2]

it IS true that will-based effects to stop casting are an "interesting" concept.

Especially with force of personality around the corner. Having a sorc with a +30 will save could prove fun.

[arminius]

Both the enemy and we could use Heighten, so the fact that it is a low level spell is moot.

And again, if it is seen as "overpowering" us, then just skip us using it and give it to the mobs.

And there is an enemy spell named Darkness, it does get cast in low level dungeons on elite. If you doubt it, go to Kobold Assault right now on elite and watch it. It is not Obscuring Mist. Obscuring Mist is white, not black.

_

[arminius]

Oh, and also, it isn't my caster angst. I actually don't care that much, I just know that others complain about it a lot and the result is massive nerfs and blanket immunities. Nerfs and blanket immunities--that I care about.

_

[DSL]

Oh, and also, it isn't my caster angst. I actually don't care that much, I just know that others complain about it a lot and the result is massive nerfs and blanket immunities. Nerfs and blanket immunities--that I care about.

_

I certainly would agree that adding additional tactical options is preferable to slapping on blanket immunities

[bobbryan2]

Both the enemy and we could use Heighten, so the fact that it is a low level spell is moot.

And again, if it is seen as "overpowering" us, then just skip us using it and give it to the mobs.

And there is an enemy spell named Darkness, it does get cast in low level dungeons on elite. If you doubt it, go to Kobold Assault right now on elite and watch it. It is not Obscuring Mist. Obscuring Mist is white, not black.

_

Popcorn monsters can't use heighten, so the fat that it's low level does matter.

Obscuring Mist is what those kobolds are casting. I remember when it changed from 50% total concealment, to the textbook 20%. Darkness isn't a cloud spell. Try casting obscuring mist

[Memnir]

And there is an enemy spell named Darkness, it does get cast in low level dungeons on elite. If you doubt it, go to Kobold Assault right now on elite and watch it. It is not Obscuring Mist. Obscuring Mist is white, not black.

To quibble - Obscuring Mist is indeed black. Fog Cloud (lvl 2 spell) is white/grey. Self-cast Obscuring Mist is a little lighter to be party friendly, as are all cloud spells. To compare and contrast - step into a monster cast Glitterdust vs. one cast by a party member.


However, I've always been puzzled why Silence and a host of other spells are not in DDO. It would lend more opions to both players and Dev alike when it comes to handeling certain situations - and would be a nice way to add in more caster's feats and balancing Sorcerers and Wizards a bit more. I know if Silence were in the game, Silent Spell would be one of the first feats I'd take as a Wizard with one of my bonus feats. If that feat were in the game as well, that is.

[oronisi]

I agree that Silence should be added as an npc spell, player spell, and static area effect, or maybe a magical trap. But I also agree it wouldn't solve the issue the OP laid out. Though it would definitely help increase the tactical options this game needs more of.

[MrCow]

I wonder if monsters are even coded to check against if a spell is verbal and/or somatic...

Currently a monster will cast unless they are labeled as helpless (and even then, some forms of helplessness they will still cast certain spells, like Heal).

[Mercules]

And his caster-angst is aimed at higher levels. It's clear that he thinks a simple lvl 2 spell with an appropriate will save would cause casters not to own the upper levels. And yes, we could use it rather potently... but considering how many people actually use feeblemind... I have a feeling people wouldn't use silence much after around 8th level or so.

I use Feeblemind, but it is dang hard to use well. The main issue is getting close enough to a caster to use it and then having either you, or the caster stay alive long enough to get it cast. It's useful at low levels, much like Ghoul Touch(poor Hobgoblin and Kobold casters become statues and crit magnets).

[Angelus_dead]

I knew it as Silence, 15 Foot Radius. The current name is simply Silence.

If you added Silence as-per PnP, to be consistent you'd have to add the Silent Spell metamagic feat, also as per PnP. And that would sort of cancel the benefit, except that it would take 1 more feat from casters.

[Hafeal]

... silence requires a save, so it shouldn't be a big deal [snip] That being said... implement it... we need more spells. Just don't give it to enemies only. Should be fun casting silence at low levels on kobold shamans.

Well, it would be effective if there was NO save. DDO has been known to change the rules ...

... and what would be really cool is if when you are silenced, your voice-chat is too, a little symbol with a red-line through it perhaps indicating silence (since we can't really do hand gestures much unless a new emote is added). I think it would be a neat way to bring the game to you.

But yes, by all means add more spells. Still waiting for "light" too.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Seems to me the easy way to implement it is an instantaneous AOE spell......fail a save and be unable to cast spells for the duration of the timer or until you make a save again.

But it would probably be more benificial to players than monsters.......as Player "AI" is better.

Edit: and if they do find away to actually disable voice chat with this spell, PLEASE make it effect other party members.....you know, like grease!

[Zenako]

Well to address the issue of persistent silence areas littering the known area that casting mobs pop in at, make it a burst effect that will only affect those in the area of effect when cast (like Fireball). Avoids the old doping the area like Cloudkill used to do.

[Kalanth]

The list of spells that would be nice to see added are endless, really. How many casters out there would love to see Protection From Arrows added into the game, or Righteous Might for those Battle Clerics out there.

Hopefully, as we close in on 20th level and 9th level spells, we will see the spell lists bolster as they will inevitably create more spells as the game continues to grow.