A short question about development

[Drfirewater79]

http://www.ddo.com/article/845

this is the article written by the Producer of DDO march 2007 detailing the plans for post 2008 development

why is it that we dont have monks and dont have orcs and dont have a good number of these things already?

and you guys where wondering why so many of us are angery about the slowed develpoment since LOTR this is the reason

and for all thouse who said oh they never promised anything ... read the article cause your wrong they promissed it all before 2008

fall of last year should have been the season of rebirth for DDO instead it was the let down that near killed the game.

here hoping the trip to 2009 will make up for the lack of dedication from the Turbine and Atari teams in 2008

[slumbering_dragon]

dude what is you problem? we know a lot was promised and not delivered, but you think we need reminding? do you think that this post is going to magicly make all the cool stuff apear next month? the devs know whats going on better than we do, and they are trying there best. i am a plumber and i have though tmany jobs were easy by the look of it and then yu run into something unseen and it takes longer then promised, but becuse i do a good job and it looks and runs nice in the end, the customer does not care of it took linger becuse now what ever held me up is now fixed and not going to bust on them later, they are happy and glad to call me agian. i assume alot of you complainers out ther dont work in a job were you have no conrtol over half of what is around you, construction workers and docters, and others that have jobs like that know what i mean. so stop complaining look you are getting crafting now and monks soon and other races later it takes time and patiance.
i know i have asked for extras but i dont complain if its late, becuse i cant controll there work, i deal with it and they will work on it.

[Ghoste]

Promised?

We have heard your clamor, and are hoping (fingers crossed) to have the Monks out for the fall.

This is why the devs tell us so little. So many players, like the op here, take stuff like "hoping" and "planning" as iron clad promises. So yes, I'm telling you you weren't "promised" those things. YOU are wrong. Read the article, they promised nothing. They gave you an idea of their general direction.

If people would stop bit**ing over every little thing the devs told us, we'd know a whole lot more about what's going on with development.

So thanks op, for pushing the devs that much further into their shell of non-communication. Really, thanks!

[Drfirewater79]

I think you both have my reasons mixed up or maybe i just didnt post them right

when you say these things are to be launched in 2007 that is a promise (monks are not all that was on that list but it is the only thing that said fingers crossed how about the almost year wait on lvl 16)

what i am trying to get through is that we the players are being strung along with these crumbs of BS and many like the two of you have just proven are happy to be lead around by your noses

what i want is more information

what i wonder is why do we even have a development discussion forum if the Dev's never discuss what is being developed and what is not gonna be developed at least quarterly for the people who care about the progression of the games development (hench the reason for a development forum)

you guys can say these arent promises all you want the truth is there is very little that didnt say by fall or by end of the year

january is not the end of the year is the beginning of the new year

lets hope the developers will give a little more insite to what it is they are doing to improve the game and what ideas we can offer to help speed along the development.

post after post come up with new ideas and i have been on at least 10 different threads talking about what can be implamented with little to no major (and i said major not any) work with no reply from any developers

so its not really development discussion anymore its lack of development disscussion ...... and really that is what this thread was ment to put out there for people to think about.

i think we should have Weekly posts in the development discussion from developers letting us know what they are thinking and letting them know what we are thinking when it comes to the game WE PAY for and letting us know what is not gonna happen ....

no one would be angry about monks not being launched if we where told ahead of time there are problems or there where other issues that needed to be addressed first but you cant tell me that fixing the jump exploits for raids or implamenting a new raid loot system was as important as giving information based on this article as to what is actually being done and looked at for the quarter or year.

we dont get any information untill two weeks before supposted launch of an update at which time there is little to no time to give input on changes

risia is a complete waste of time for most because there is no real game bonus for free game testing and its only being used because people are sick of waiting for new content. They dont even realize that by spending so much time in risia means that they will be bored with the content that much faster.


its time the developers started talking about what it is they find are the most important things in game development so we can either agree or disagree with them to help shape the game into not only the best fantasy game but so i can live up to its name sake

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS

[Drfirewater79]

Promised?
If people would stop bit**ing over every little thing the devs told us, we'd know a whole lot more about what's going on with development.

So thanks op, for pushing the devs that much further into their shell of non-communication. Really, thanks!

that is total bs

they never gave us any information untill we starting ripping into them for it and then when they did give us that little bit in that article they never spoke about anything again never saying anything more then its on the way

on the way = 2 years

you might think that is ok but i sure as hell dont and i am sure there are at least 100 people who feel the same way unfortunatly most of them wont be playing this game by the time the devs do start some kind of positive player re-enforcement

you want me to get people to play the game using word of mouth advertising .... start giving me something to talk about.

[Trugaard]

I understand that the poor typing/spelling plumber of Stormreach may be trying to obtain the +5 Returning Brownie Point but in reality if you cannot do the job don't say you can. If you can't fix the job don't say you can. If you continue to dissapoint your PAYING customers then you will have no paying customers.

I think this is the best designed game I've ever played, however If you cannot deliver than don't promise. It's the cardinal rule of business, when you make promises that don't come to fruition then you only get what you have invited. I have no problems with this game it's fun as Hades. There is more content then I can finish anyway.

You cannot get on anyone for complaining though. Thats usually how things get changed (i.e. the squeeky wheel) and this guy is paying for at least one (maybe multiple) accounts and that gives him the right to say what he wants without any criticism from any of us. No matter how attached to the Dev's jocks you may be!

Let him speak his mind some will agree some won't. I don't think the post was designed to get things changed over night, but if accountability causes the designers to improve the game then great!

$14.99 x 4000 accounts = Almost 60 grand a month! I don't know how many active accounts there are, but I figure 4000 to be low. I'll admit I have no clue on this but it seems viable. Thats about three quarters of a million dollars a year! $700,000 pays the salary for many a' designer.

By the way, does anyone know how many people work solely on DDO? (only the paid employees that is)

[ehcsztein]

Customers are not always right.... that is a myth from an era of C.S. that is looooong gone.

Nowadays it is more like the customer is always able to find a different product/service provider.

The belief that each and every customer CAN matter to any company is manifest absurdity. If it were possible we would live in a much different and extremely less effecient world

That is not to say they shouldn't complain when they feel that the product they were promised was not delivered. However, pardon me for being reasonable, "new content" is not the product we are paying for. It is a service in addition to the product that we are paying for.

I may or may not be satisfied with the quality of the services ADDED to the product that I pay for but, I try not to confuse one for the other. Apples make poor orange juice

And to the OP - long time no see

[captain1z]

I do hear what you are saying. I mean your saying a lot of things but mainly I hear your complaint about lack of information as to where we are going.

I agree that if monks were scheduled for release in say october and if at some point before that time they did not feel it was going to make it and told us that we would complain but ultimately understand.

I agree with that basic point and would myself like to see a detailed monthly update or a video post showing what they are doing and a percentage of completeness on certain projects.

Secrets are all fine and good but not everything should be a secret. Thats what makes secrets exciting.............. but if everything is like that its just frustrating ..... like staring at a locked door.


Although I must say the information comes a little easier now than compared to 12 months ago.

[captain1z]

Customers are not always right.... that is a myth from an era of C.S. that is looooong gone.

Nowadays it is more like the customer is always able to find a different product/service provider.

The belief that each and every customer CAN matter to any company is manifest absurdity. If it were possible we would live in a much different and extremely less effecient world

That is not to say they shouldn't complain when they feel that the product they were promised was not delivered. However, pardon me for being reasonable, "new content" is not the product we are paying for. It is a service in addition to the product that we are paying for.

I may or may not be satisfied with the quality of the services ADDED to the product that I pay for but, I try not to confuse one for the other. Apples make poor orange juice

And to the OP - long time no see

just 1 comment ............... The customer must as a rule always be right. If he is right, he is happy. If he is wrong and must choose another service, then he is no longer a customer and you are one step closer to closing your doors for good.

Thats where the saying came from. You must always come to an agreement of some sort with anyone you intend to keep as a customer. that doesnt mean give him everything he wants............. but it does mean give him enough to keep him happy.

I once worked in retail and our policy was never to take back open product............. a lady came in once with opened stuff, used for several days and a story. I went ahead and took care of her and she happily came back and spent much more than what she returned on that one instance for at least 2 years that I know of and never returned a thing.

Its like giving up pennies to make dollars and at the end of the day its really about how many customers you have spending money..... not who is being annoying or trying to have their way.

[Ghoste]

that is total bs

they never gave us any information untill we starting ripping into them for it and then when they did give us that little bit in that article they never spoke about anything again never saying anything more then its on the way
Cause and effect.

on the way = 2 years
The post you quoted was still less than a year ago. 1 year = 2 years?

you might think that is ok but i sure as hell dont and i am sure there are at least 100 people who feel the same way unfortunatly most of them wont be playing this game by the time the devs do start some kind of positive player re-enforcement

you want me to get people to play the game using word of mouth advertising .... start giving me something to talk about.

Again, the information you yourself provided is full of the devs saying what they were working on at the time. Nowhere in that article do they promise anything. They give dates they're working towards. Them not meeting their goals: evidence of incompetence, shortsightedness, etc. ? Sure. Lying to you personally? Get over yourself already.

And seriously, what do you expect to accomplish with a thread like this. Sure there's the saying that the "customer is always right", but anyone who's ever worked in customer service knows the customer who comes in to complain throwing tantrums generally gets a lot less than the one who politely complains.

You want to see more accomplished with development? You want to see them meet the deadlines they supposedly promised you in your imaginary world? Start by getting over yourself and approaching them like human beings. You may still not be able to make them magically produce something it turns out they couldn't in the time expected, but they may actually pay a fair amount of attention to you, which is a whole lot more than I'll be you're getting now.

[Missing_Minds]

just 1 comment ............... The customer must as a rule always be right. If he is right, he is happy. If he is wrong and must choose another service, then he is no longer a customer and you are one step closer to closing your doors for good.

Emm.... NO. The customer is NOT always right. That statement is too black and white with no room at all for the gray areas that you described.
Should the customer be kept happy within reasonable means? yes, by all means yes. This is what you did, and this is what will help keep customers.

As to the OP... feel free to whine, moan, and complain as much as you want. This sort of destructive styled criticism will do nothing to further communication and sure as heck won't push the developers any harder to get something done. If anything you'll only alienate them further. If you want to attack someone, you need to attack the producer/s as he/she are the ones that ultimately decide what direction the game will go. Developers only code that which they are directed to code. That is how they earn their paycheck afterall.

[Jebise]

Just a couple of things... and I'll admit to only skimming through the first few posts, so forgive me if this has been said.

1. Spelling and Grammar. Not to be a complete English language Nazi here, but making sure that you spelled the words correctly, and used proper grammar MIGHT get your post noticed.

2. Keep things positive. I think that anyone can empathize with your frustration. This is, however, a game. The level of your frustration is interesting. I do see in the parts of your posts that I read, where you complain, but I see no offers of a solution. A lot of people are sticking up for the Dev's, which I'm sure you hadn't counted on either. If all you have is complaints, you can expect to be met with a less than favorable response. If you have suggestions, people will probably be more willing to consider them, and possibly support your post. If you think you can do better, learn to be a game developer, get a job with Turbine, and do it.

3. If the lack of new content, classes, or races is hindering your enjoyment of this game to the level expressed in your posts, I have to ask. Why do you still play? Ultimately, Turbine is a business. They are here, not to provide you with a service. They're not here to entertain you. They're here to make money. The service they provide is still a product, and there are many other products of this type, offered by other companies. Ultimately, we all determine whether this game sees more or less development, with the use of our credit cards, every month.

And for the people debating whether or not the customer is always right...

The answer is simply, no. The customer isn't always anything. The best companies in the world hire customer service representatives and train them to do one simple thing. Protect the companies interests, while making the customer feel like the company cares. As long as the customer feels good about their choice in product, and will continue to buy from that company, then the company is happy. There is no such thing as customer service anymore. Good customer service is a simple manipulation of how a customer feels about making a purchase where something went wrong in the process.

If I call a mail order company about a computer that showed up late, they refund my shipping. Why, you ask? Not cause they did anything wrong. Not cause they care about the inconvenience it caused me. They refund my shipping cause the $45.00 it cost them to ship it out to me is far less than the $600 - $2000 they will lose if I return the item and they have to attempt to resell it as a refurbished computer.

[Tolero]

Can I have a little fewer personal attacks and flaming for spelling/grammar please this morning?

You know the rules folks.

[Mercules]

How many threads are you going to start that in the end say, "The devs told us we would have X and we don't?" Couldn't you have put all the points in -one- thread?


To repeat what has been said here and elsewhere.

The Devs had goals in mind. Those goals CHANGED in midstream. One of the things that happened that I believe threw the plans out the window was the server merge and working out all the issues from that. People screamed and screamed for a server merge, Turbine gave it to them, and then they complained that Turbine was behind on everything else. So... what do you want? More people on your server and merging them, or the other stuff Turbine promised that you said wasn't important unless the servers merged and you had more people to group with?

[Hambo]

http://www.ddo.com/article/845

this is the article written by the Producer of DDO march 2007 detailing the plans for post 2008 development

why is it that we dont have monks and dont have orcs and dont have a good number of these things already?

and you guys where wondering why so many of us are angery about the slowed develpoment since LOTR this is the reason

and for all thouse who said oh they never promised anything ... read the article cause your wrong they promissed it all before 2008

fall of last year should have been the season of rebirth for DDO instead it was the let down that near killed the game.

here hoping the trip to 2009 will make up for the lack of dedication from the Turbine and Atari teams in 2008

From the linked article:

"DDO is a unique experience with some of the best combat and action packed dungeons of any MMO to date. In 2007, we are going to continue to set ourselves apart by continuing to deliver game updates on regular cycle. Here is a partial list of the very cool features that we are hoping to release over the next year. Please keep in mind that while these are our goals, development often uncovers unexpected complexities, and there are bound to be changes as we go. We will also change our priorities based on the feedback that our fans provide, as we have done this past year."

I see no mention here of ANY promise to do anything. I see a statement that says they would like to do these things, but no promises.

Such misinterpretation and subsequent indignance when events don't occur may contribute to the reluctance of developers to tell us their future plans.

[Hambo]

[eaten by cube]

That's why I highlighted the sections in question every possible way available, short of using html to make it flash like a neon sign

[Jebise]

That's why I highlighted the sections in question every possible way available, short of using html to make it flash like a neon sign

You promised that you'd make it flash like a neon sign and it STILL hasn't happened :P

[Jaywade]

here's the list of things they were HOPING to have for us ...please note this was said in march so 10 months ago

Major Additions

Level Cap Increases – We are raising the level cap to Level 14 in April, and are planning on raising it again in the fall.
well they missed the second one didn't they 1/2 on GOALS
Monk Class – We have heard your clamor, and are hoping (fingers crossed) to have the Monks out for the fall.
missed this on too, although they didn;t promise any of this it was listed as a goal 1/3 on goals
Half-Orc & Half-Elf Race – Were you hoping for a little more diversity in playable races, and perhaps a tusk or two? Keep an eye out towards the end of the year.
well 1/4 now....
Crafting – Are you wondering what to do with all your gold and merchant fodder items? Don’t worry, crafting is coming! Crafting will focus around letting players make useful items out of loot and other resources and we’re targeting late Fall of this year for its release.
1/5 these major goals are tough huh?
Guild Housing – Another often requested feature, Guild Housing is something we are working on for late this year or early next year. Housing will provide Guilds with a home base in the city, where they can display their accolades and possibly purchase conveniences for Guild members like a Tavern keep or a Guild Bank Manager
1/6 wow thank god we got that lvl cap to 14 huh


okay listen they listed these as their goals , 10 months ago the only one they gave us on time was the lvl cap to 14.....now if I preformed that way at my job I wouldn't have one. I don't think they broke a promise casue they didn't promise any of these, they said words like goals, hoping ect.... at work I'm asked to set goals for myself and my team, I'm held acountable for them as well, I wonder if turbine is? they missed the mark, and although they told us 10 months agao we should look forward to these things in the time manner that they gave , today we have no idea do we. .....so I'm clear...I understand delays, but the lack of info form turbine is not helping, and this is after they slowed down incoming content.... I like this game, I really do. I hope Mod 6 blows me away , I want and need it to be, casue only 5 quests a lvl cap w/ too few spells in it and a new raid doesn't sound like it will be enough, I'm putting all my eggs into this new raid. I hope I'm blown away....however I do think you Turbine need to do a better job, being 1/6 for you goals that were goven 10 months ago is not up to par

[MysticTheurge]

here's the list of things they were HOPING to have for us ...please note this was said in march so 10 months ago

Honestly, look. They've only missed the mark on some of those by 2-3 months.

They also had some unexpected stuff (server merge, engine upgrade) get inserted into the schedule that probably took... about 2-3 months.

Don't try to tell me that you're kept to your same deadlines when you have other stuff take priority and get added to the top of your list.

[Jaywade]

Honestly, look. They've only missed the mark on some of those by 2-3 months.

They also had some unexpected stuff (server merge, engine upgrade) get inserted into the schedule that probably took... about 2-3 months.

Don't try to tell me that you're kept to your same deadlines when you have other stuff take priority and get added to the top of your list.

only by a couple of months really?

here's the list of things they were HOPING to have for us ...please note this was said in march so 10 months ago

Major Additions

Level Cap Increases – We are raising the level cap to Level 14 in April, and are planning on raising it again in the fall.
well they missed the second one didn't they 1/2 on GOALS
okay your right on this ine just a couple of months
Monk Class – We have heard your clamor, and are hoping (fingers crossed) to have the Monks out for the fall.
missed this on too, although they didn;t promise any of this it was listed as a goal 1/3 on goals
wll a couple of months is gone and we have no hard timeline fo rthis do we?
Half-Orc & Half-Elf Race – Were you hoping for a little more diversity in playable races, and perhaps a tusk or two? Keep an eye out towards the end of the year.
well 1/4 now....
well they still have time fto be "only a couple of months late" on this one
Crafting – Are you wondering what to do with all your gold and merchant fodder items? Don’t worry, crafting is coming! Crafting will focus around letting players make useful items out of loot and other resources and we’re targeting late Fall of this year for its release.
1/5 these major goals are tough huh?
okay if t hey get this in end of jan I guess that only a couple months late
Guild Housing – Another often requested feature, Guild Housing is something we are working on for late this year or early next year. Housing will provide Guilds with a home base in the city, where they can display their accolades and possibly purchase conveniences for Guild members like a Tavern keep or a Guild Bank Manager
1/6 wow thank god we got that lvl cap to 14 huh
they still have time to be late w/ this too I guess but do you think we are going to get this in 2-3 months?


okay listen they listed these as their goals , 10 months ago the only one they gave us on time was the lvl cap to 14.....now if I preformed that way at my job I wouldn't have one. I don't think they broke a promise casue they didn't promise any of these, they said words like goals, hoping ect.... at work I'm asked to set goals for myself and my team, I'm held acountable for them as well, I wonder if turbine is? they missed the mark, and although they told us 10 months agao we should look forward to these things in the time manner that they gave , today we have no idea do we. .....so I'm clear...I understand delays, but the lack of info form turbine is not helping, and this is after they slowed down incoming content.... I like this game, I really do. I hope Mod 6 blows me away , I want and need it to be, casue only 5 quests a lvl cap w/ too few spells in it and a new raid doesn't sound like it will be enough, I'm putting all my eggs into this new raid. I hope I'm blown away....however I do think you Turbine need to do a better job, being 1/6 for you goals that were goven 10 months ago is not up to par

I don't know MT they failed badly at these goals anyway you cut it, and remeber they slowed down the cycle so the little update were stalled and now we are getting a mod w/ only 5 quests (I hoping 5 really great ones btw) a lvl cap (w/ too few spells IMO), and a new raid (the pride and joy of this mod).... I'm not dev bashing here btw I like the game however I do wanty them to do a better job, at my job I'm expected to complete the goals I set...I hope they have the same mindset