Temptation - Tempest Warchanter Bard 8/Ranger 8

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I posted a neat build in the Fighter (Tempting) forum utilizing the Ranger Tempest enhancement and then thought the following might be pretty darn cool too!

Some points:

1. I did use a +1 tome for all stats except Intel.
2. No Raid loot is used.
3. +5 or +6 items used where noted.
4. Human because this build is Feat intensive.
5. Barkskin, 20 point resists, haste, displacement, bard songs, DR/5, 10% melee speed, +2 AC while dual-wielding, UMD, Haggle, healing, and on and on. This build would be fun!
5. No extend. Maybe 450 SP and extend is expensive, good play and mini hastes and displacements will have to do!
6. No toughness, could be bad... HP could hit 250 with the right gear, should be enough.
7. Need the starting Dex and +1 Dex tome in order to pick up Greater Two-Weapon fighting.

Final Stats:

Str: 32 (23 base + 5 item + 2 Ram's Might +2 Rage)
Dex: 24 (19 base + 5 item)
Con: 22 (20 base + 5 item +2 Rage)
Int: 8
Wis: 16 (11 base + 5 item)
Cha: 18 (12 base + 6 item)

What do you all think?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.80
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Temptation 
Level 16 True Neutral Human Male
(8 Ranger \ 8 Bard) 
Hit Points: 164
Spell Points: 317 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 16
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             17                    23
Dexterity            16                    19
Constitution         13                    15
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               10                    11
Charisma             10                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               5                     9
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         2                     6
Diplomacy             2                    10
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                4                    16
Heal                  0                     7
Hide                  3                    11
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  4                    11
Listen                2                    11
Move Silently         3                     9
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               4                     9
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  4                     8
Tumble                7                     9
Use Magic Device      4                    20

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack

Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant

Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility

Level 4 (Ranger)

Level 5 (Ranger)

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I

Level 7 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II

Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Bard)

Level 11 (Bard)

Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Warchanter I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II

Level 13 (Bard)

Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I

Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 16 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III

[EinarMal]

Why not Bard 10/Ranger 6? Are you trying for evasion eventually? If that is the case Ranger 9/Bard 7 might be better for a cap of 16. You lose -1/-1 to inspire courage on one level 3 spell slot, just drop rage and use pots.

Are you thinking Bard 11/Ranger 9 for level 20? I don't know, maybe Bard 12/Ranger 6/Rogue 2, would be a little stronger, or if you don't need evasion Bard 14/Ranger 6. Ranger 6 to Ranger 9 is pretty dead in terms of benefit.

I posted a build like this a long time ago and called it BYOB Ranger (Bring your own Bard) very clever right?? It was Bard 8/Ranger 6. The real downside to a build like this is leveling is slow as both classes suffer in the progression and if a Bard is in your group you've then pretty much thrown away 8 levels. Your songs will be overtaken by the traditional Bard, and even your buff casting will be much poorer without extend and so many fewer caster levels.

[Impaqt]

IMO theres not enough synergy between Bard and Ranger to make this all that fun..... What does 8Bard/Warchanter actualy provide this build?

Fasinate is good, but you can get that with just a 1 level splash if thats what your after. Same with UMD. Rangers get enough skill points to ma it with a Bard or Rogue splash.

The build just seem way to unfocused for my tastes.... Both Primary casting stats for your caster classes are low. No Extend for your combat buffs, and a vary low hit point pool to boot.

Might play all right at cap... But Getting there would be rough.

a 9Bard/7Ranger split might be better.... That way you get Inspire Greatness to boost you rweak melee capabilities as well.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I went with Ranger 8 mainly for Barkskin and 20 point resists (which come at 7). However, I completely forgot about Evasion at Ranger 9! I may see how it looks Ranger 9/Bard 7, though I'd lose the Improved Inspire Courage and one of Haste, Displacement or Good Hope. But with Heroism in there I could drop Good Hope even though it is a far superior spell.... Hmmmm. Thanks for pointing that out.

As far as level 20 goes, I can't think that far ahead yet.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

IMO theres not enough synergy between Bard and Ranger to make this all that fun..... What does 8Bard/Warchanter actualy provide this build?

Fasinate is good, but you can get that with just a 1 level splash if thats what your after. Same with UMD. Rangers get enough skill points to ma it with a Bard or Rogue splash.

The build just seem way to unfocused for my tastes.... Both Primary casting stats for your caster classes are low. No Extend for your combat buffs, and a vary low hit point pool to boot.

Might play all right at cap... But Getting there would be rough.

a 9Bard/7Ranger split might be better.... That way you get Inspire Greatness to boost you rweak melee capabilities as well.

Weak melee capabilities? Really? They don't seem weak to me, with 32 strength and GTWF and 10% melee alacrity and Haste and boosted Bard songs and defensive melee in the form of DR, displacement, Barkskin and +2 AC dual-wielding. Not only would this be an effective melee, but it would be a damage dealer as well.

The only thing weak about it would be that this whirlwind of damage would only last for about 1-2 minutes in a big fight without extend and minimal SP for buffs. But for the most part, it would get you between shrines...

[EinarMal]

Weak melee capabilities? Really? They don't seem weak to me, with 32 strength and GTWF and 10% melee alacrity and Haste and boosted Bard songs and defensive melee in the form of DR, displacement, Barkskin and +2 AC dual-wielding. Not only would this be an effective melee, but it would be a damage dealer as well.

The only thing weak about it would be that this whirlwind of damage would only last for about 1-2 minutes in a big fight without extend and minimal SP for buffs. But for the most part, it would get you between shrines...

Well here is the thing, you attack 10% faster, but Bard 7 Warchanter versus Bard 16 warchanter is a difference of +9/+8 to-hit/dmg versus +3/+5 to-hit damage for everyone in the group. It is highly debatable which is better attacking 10% faster or getting +6/+3 to-hit/dmg per swing even if you just consider yourself.

On the Ranger side you are giving up a lot of favored enemy damage to get Bard spells and a halfway decent song buff (assuming no other Bard joins your group).

Honestly a TWF pure Bard warchanter would out DPS you, and add more to the group and have much longer buffs.

Either way I think something like a Ranger 15/Rogue 1 Tempest (gives you UMD for using displacement/haste/whatever scrolls) or Bard 16 Warchanter would be more powerful, but on the other hand it will work out ok if you just want to try something different.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

but on the other hand it will work out ok if you just want to try something different.

I agree with everything you've said, but you hit the nail on the head here as to the reason I was messing around with this: to try something different.

[EinarMal]

I agree with everything you've said, but you hit the nail on the head here as to the reason I was messing around with this: to try something different.

Yeah it will definitely work fine, you will be able to put out very solid damage, just ignore the build nerd non maxed out as possible flaming

[Mad_Bombardier]

I was working on one of these as well. The biggest drawback IMO is lack of feats for Extend. Buff spells of only 8 minutes is very hard to work around. And you have limited SP to recast.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I was working on one of these as well. The biggest drawback IMO is lack of feats for Extend. Buff spells of only 8 minutes is very hard to work around. And you have limited SP to recast.

/agreed. Built for zerging, no question.

[skraus1]

Bard is a much stronger class than ranger. Rogue 2 is probably a better bet than an additional 3 levels of ranger to get evasion. A Bard 14/Ranger 6 or a Bard 12/Ranger6/Rogue 2, or a Bard 11/Ranger 6/Fighter 1 would all be decent characters, and a Bard 9/Ranger 11 would probably better than a full ranger because it has bard in it. These all would be somewhat difficult to level however. All these builds, I believe, would be weaker than a Bard 18/Fighter 2, or a Bard 16/Fighter2/Rogue2 or a Bard 14/Fighter 4/Rogue 2.

If you really want to put ranger in your build, I would recommend a Bard 10/Ranger 6 or Bard 9/Ranger 6/Fighter 1 at the soon to be cap. The better Bard buffs more than make up for the missed ranger levels. Also, frontload your bard levels because you're going to want displacement up asap.

Also, without a decent caster level extend is a godsend. Try to get it into the build, with the Bard 9/Ranger 6/Fighter 1 making it easy to work in both greater TWF and extend.

[MrCow]

This build is suspiciously similar to mine... (currently sitting at 8 ranger/6 bard with aspirations of 11 ranger/8 bard/1 level of anything)

As people have said, yes, it does take time for this type of build to feel like it is coming into its own. Mainly, that is because people are spoiled by many people playing pure or near-pure characters and they expect to have certain abilities for certain quests. However, in a build like this I have found that nearly each new level seems to provide something of interest (but I also staggered the progression so it was nearly a 1/1 ranger to bard ratio, namely for skill point allocation reasons).

This build is, in essence, a weapons fighting style generalist. You can use a two-handed weapon, two-weapon fighting, and a bow well. Depending on the situation you will find that each can shine over another (along with power attack adding more flexibility).

This type of build does have some self-synergy that most people overlook. Ranger sprint boost goes very well with Fascination. Inspire Courage song goes very well with ranged weaponry damage. Camouflage goes very well with invisibility...

Also, how often do you see more than one bard in a group? More often that not you will be providing the sole song for a group. In situations were you are not the one with the dominate song, feel free to be the one that plays fascinations or a few warchanter ironskin chants. Your songs likely will not go to waste.

It is a fun build and it is worth a try.

[jkm]

my suggestions as a builder of weird human bards

drop str to 16, with humans even stats are always best. this also pushes your cha up to 13 which gives you a higher spell point pool.

no evasion -> go either 9 bard/6 ranger/1 fighter or 8 bard/6 ranger/2 fighter
couple of reasons:

a) the extra feat to allow for extend
b) adding fighter haste boost
c) your barkskin at ranger 8 is the same as what comes out of a pot
d) also with this build i'd go pierce instead of slash.

the former gets +2 to hit and longer spells, the latter gets an extra feat (OTWF) and 1 extra str enhancement. if you go the latter pierce is a much stronger argument as 2 rapiers with this build would be nasty.

evasion -> go 8 bard/6 ranger/2 rogue
a) evasion with decent reflex save
b) rogue haste boost to stack on top of tempest
c) better skill points

have to give up either extend or gtwf

now on skills:

you run the risk of gimping the **** out of this build by not maxing perform. one tweak, which has been hinted at before, and you may have to toss the build on the scrap heap. i'm also not a big fan of not putting points into concentration ESPECIALLY if you don't have extend. that is at least a 14 dc concentration check and only taking one point of damage will cause you to fail on a roll of 5 or lower.

one other point of consideration is that bards get disco ball at level 10...