Max DPS TWF Build

[Shade]

Sure, they are higher DPS. Yes, Dwarven Axes are the most common weapons on the AH. However, the amount of dwarven axes needed for this is insane. You'd probably want Ghost Touch of Greater Undead Bane, Greater Undead Bane, (Transmuting if possible) Greater Contruct Bane, (Transmuting if possible) Greater Evil Outsider Bane, Greater Human Bane, Greater Giant Bane, Greater Gnolll Bane and Greater Aberation Bane... and those are only the most common, you'll probably carry more... and it's 20 weapon right there.

Thats where your wrong see. Your wording it far too hasrhly. It's not "NEEDED" .. It's just helpful, very helpful. I mean the things that take a long time to kill are more often then not, things that have high DR.. In which case any old trasnmuter will kick a greensteel weps butt... So it's not that those weapons are "needed" its that there better.

And with the amount of constructs, elementals and undead in the game. I can't recommend a build that picks up a feat solely for the purpose of an xtra 1-10% dps on select monsters, at the cost of some heavy farming time and the stunning blow feat.

Because like I said, unlike khopehs, dwarven axes are easy to get. And no you do not need every greater bane like I have.. You'll do fine with your standard easy to get weapons ,and if you do get 1 or 2 greater banes later, all the better.

I actually just hit lvl14 on this build and already have more then 60 greater bane dwarven axes, including many nice +4 elemental ones and even a couple +5 elemental.. I was really surprised how much more common and less expensive they are versus greataxes.. And vs khopesh and heavy picks? No comparison..
Last check of the auction house:
Dwarven axes - 14 pages filled with excellent greater banes and low prices
Khopehs - 7 pages, few greater banes, all rather high prices
Heavy picks - 3 pages, not much at all.. Reasonable prices tho.

I think the market for khopesh is very demanding on khyber, ALLOT of players seem to be fighter type khopesh users, relatively few axe wielding barbarians in comparison.

[Shade]

Also here is a comparison of the cost of greater banes vs time investment to get dual fully upgraded greensteel weapons:

On a fast shroud 1-4 farming run I generally make 15-20k plat per run. There ill get tons of small and medium ingredients.. But large? 50% chance at getting just 1.

So on average you need 24 runs of the shroud to get 12 ingredients, to do 1 weapon. On those runs alone you would get roughly 200K platinum.. Lately I've purchased many many many greater bane dwarven axes (I spent over 600kpp on them) and on average i'd say the price i paid was about 50kpp each, even for some really good +4 and 5 ones in some cases.

So by your 2nd weapon, you should have amased well over 400kpp.. Enough for a great supply of greater banes, and thats assuming you were broke to begin with and never found ay other nice loot to trade or sell for some.

So I don't think its that insane at all to get a full set of greater banes. At least not much more insane then it is to get dual fully upgraded greensteel weapons.

And a more valid comparison anyays is greensteel warhammer vs khopesh anyways, as that is most likely what you would do for this build. Least it ias what I have done so far and is working great.

Actually beat the shroud parts1-5 twice on this guy and did very well considering he was only level14 with absolutely no raid loot and only a single +2 tome used. Was the main tank/dps dealer on all runs as well. Great build so far.

[Borror0]

umm good blast +7 damage is still there at the end of the damage calculation and included in your final numbers..

Ok, I'll repost the calculations for you then... I simpyl didn't go back and edited the post, I was simply replying with the new numbers.


+5 Flaming Dwarven axe of Greater Bane:

5,5 Base + 15 Str + 8 PA + 2 DAD + 9 Weapon = 39,5

(39,5 + 6 Seeker)*4/20*3 + 39,5*16/20 + 3,5 Flaming + 10,5 Greater Bane = 72,9 average

+5 Holy, Good Burst, Good Blast Khopesh:

5,5 Base + 15 Str + 8 PA + 5 weapon = 33,5

(33,5*3 + 14 Good Burst + 14 Good Blast + 18 Seeker)*6/20 + 14 Good Blast*1/20 + 33,5*14/20 + 3,5 Pure Good + 7 Holy = 78,6 average

(78,6-72,9)/72,9*100%= 7,82% of improvement

I'll also compare it to a non-Holy Green Steel weapon as some mobs aren't Evil.

+5 Frost, Icy Burst, Icy Blast Khopesh:

(33,5*3 + 11 Icy Burst + 11 Icy Blast + 18 Seeker)*6/20 + 14 Icy Blast*1/20 + 33,5*14/20 + 3,5 Frost +3,5 Icy Burst = 73,3 average

(73,3-72,9)/72,9*100%= 0,55% of improvement...

Now, as you pointed out, there could be a +4 Holy of Greater Bane.

+4 Holy Dwarven axe of Greater Bane:

5,5 Base + 15 Str + 8 PA + 2 DAD + 9 Weapon = 38,5

(38,5 + 6 Seeker)*4/20*3 + 38,5*16/20 + 7 Holy + 10,5 Greater Bane = 75 average

(78,6-75)/75*100%= 5,20% of improvement

I'll even factor in the best Greater Bane possible ever for comparison:

+5 Flaming Dwarven axe of Greater Bane:

5,5 Base + 15 Str + 8 PA + 2 DAD + 9 Weapon = 39,5

(39,5 + 6 Seeker)*4/20*3 + 39,5*16/20 + 7 Holy + 10,5 Greater Bane = 76,4 average

(78,6-76,4)/76,4*100%= 3,27% of improvement

Still pretty good if you take into account that you also get Crushing Wave for approximatively 240 damage every 20 swing!! So, in conclusion, the new Green Steel weapons out-DPS any Greater Banes as long as you keep it "fair (not comparing an Holy of Greater Bane versus a non-Holy Green Steel).

That is accurate only if the on-crit effect they added on Blasts are equal to the on-crit portion of Bursts, otherwise things might change... but carrying so few weapons versus over 20 would make me decide on which one I'd want.

EDIT: I forgot +5 Flaming Burst of Greater Bane:

5,5 Base + 15 Str + 8 PA + 2 DAD + 9 Weapon = 39,5

(39,5*3 + 18 Seeker +11 Flaming Burst)*4/20 + 39,5*16/20 + 3,5 Flaming + 10,5 Greater Bane = 75,1 average

So a +5 or +4 Flaming burst out-damage a Frost Green Steel Khopesh, the +4 winning only by 0,4 damage... and that is if we don't take Crushing wave into consideration. After all, 240 damage every 20 hit is not to neglect as it'd add 12 damage per hit... and let's not forget that +4 Flaming Burst of Greater Banes are not falling from the sky... are they? (They are ML 16 weapons...)

[Borror0]

Actually beat the shroud parts1-5 twice on this guy and did very well considering he was only level14 with absolutely no raid loot and only a single +2 tome used. Was the main tank/dps dealer on all runs as well. Great build so far.

Not saying the opposite.

[Shade]

Not saying the opposite.

But you are doing allot of khopsh loving lately.. heh..

Are you a dwarven khopehs defector? stay true to the axe brother!

[Borror0]

But you are doing allot of khopsh loving lately.. heh..

Are you a dwarven khopehs defector? stay true to the axe brother!

Maybe my point is showing how unfair it is to not have axes...

[maddmatt70]

But you are doing allot of khopsh loving lately.. heh..

Are you a dwarven khopehs defector? stay true to the axe brother!

I agree i just like axes on Norg.. I think the numbers are less advantages for none barbarians with the lesser crit range and since his main I think is a sword and board high ac fighter build... He has no excuse by the way as he has to get only 1 set of greater banes...

[Shade]

besides, lets leave the greensteel weapon discussion in a more appropriate thread, I believe someone just started one on the barbarian forum here.

They are interesting weapons, but much is left to be discovered before we should really be taking them into account on our builds yet. I believe we have yet to even discover the truely powerful combinations for the tier3 specials.

[Borror0]

besides, lets leave the greensteel weapon discussion in a more appropriate thread, I believe someone just started one on the barbarian forum here.

Sure. My main concern was that it is a little excessive to have a lot of Greater Banes on a TWF character, gets a little crazy.

[Shade]

Maybe my point is showing how unfair it is to not have axes...

Well yea it sucks. But we still have that greataxe of the scarlet warrior to play with the first phase of the raid at least.. One of my favourite new weapons and no one can out dps a +5 vorpal of maiming hehe.. I find it the ultimate weapon there as its great dps on the portal, plenty of dmg vs the trogs, and excellent +5 vorpal ability means you can keep power attack on and take out the devils at the same time.

Hopefully the devs read our concerns and stop trying to balance the game based on weapons and more on racial abilities in the future tho. There is something to be said for the RP'ing aspect of always using axes, its just fun.

[Shade]

Sure. My main concern was that it is a little excessive to have a lot of Greater Banes on a TWF character, gets a little crazy.

Yea, more difficult to manage then THF sure.. But i pull it off pretty well I think. Very few quests I don't have the appropriate greater bane equiped (or at least one of my hands has one) and im still pretty new to the TWF style.

Until I get allot of raid loot clogging up my inv slots I think ill have no problem carrying all the right types.

My non greater bane weapon sets are +5 of righteousness for evil mobs, and +5 transmutings for everything else - weapon I found for very cheap or was given for freee from friends (which is pretty cool, I mean on my THF I have yet to get a +5 transmuting greataxe after playing him 2+ years, yet on this guy I already have dual +5s lol) .. And there excellent DPS, so the greater banes are hardly required.. There just nice to have when you want to burn thru those uber high hp elite mobs faster.

[Borror0]

Well yea it sucks. But we still have that greataxe of the scarlet warrior to play with the first phase of the raid at least..

Yeah... but still.

I think that they should add other weapon styles, the gap between Green Steel and non-Green Stell is just goo big. Just try to compare a +5 Frost of Pure Good to a Frost, the gap is huge!

[Borror0]

Yea, more difficult to manage then THF sure.. But i pull it off pretty well I think. [...]

Until I get allot of raid loot clogging up my inv slots I think ill have no problem carrying all the right types.

I'm more lazy?

which is pretty cool, I mean on my THF I have yet to get a +5 transmuting greataxe after playing him 2+ years, yet on this guy I already have dual +5s lol

My bard has a +5 Transmuting DA of Pure Good and a +5 Transmuting DA of Righteousness, both RR: junk though, but much easier to acquire than Greataxes for sure.

[Tallyn]

Lately I've purchased many many many greater bane dwarven axes (I spent over 600kpp on them) and on average i'd say the price i paid was about 50kpp each, even for some really good +4 and 5 ones in some cases.

So by your 2nd weapon, you should have amased well over 400kpp.. Enough for a great supply of greater banes, and thats assuming you were broke to begin with and never found ay other nice loot to trade or sell for some.

I agree. I picked up some very nice Dwarven Axes lately. While not the perfect ones, I did get:

+5 Holy Silver Dwarven Axe (100k plat)
+1 Holy Burst Silver Dwarven Axe of Slowburst (125k plat)

So if you keep your eyes peeled, you can find some very nice dwarven axes sitting on the AH

[Humperdink]

My dwarven TWF has mostly gone to 3 weapon sets lately out in the Vale and Shroud:

dual transmuting dwarven axes
dual vorpal dwarven axes
dual holy burst dwarven axes

With a little dash of paralyzer offhand or something else. This is great for a) inventory management and b) when you don't have a bank account like Shade's. ;-)

He's right about the +5 vorpal greataxe of maiming in part 1. It works nicely on the mobs (especially when you job is cleanup at the portals) and your wasting Turbine's dime on damage to the weapon while beating on the portal, not your own. :-)

[FluffyCalico]

Quick note for new players: TWF is the most difficult combat style to master, as well as get equiped for. As it requires twice as many weapons as THF and currently has less easy to aquire named weapons vs two handers as well. Also the actual fighting style itself can be a bit more difficult to master as you need to be much closer to your target to actually hit it, and attacking while moving effectively is more difficult to THF. So if your new to the game I do recommend you start out as a THF Barbarian, build up a good inventory of dwarven axes and perhaps get to 1750 favor to later create your TWF version.

This build works the same as my THF build only a few small changes to make it work for TWF. Still deserves a post as allot of people do miss a few key stats they need to make it work, so here it is.

TWF gets a large boost in dps. perhaps matching THF single target DPS in module6, so this guide takes that into account and is designed with module6/level16 in mind.

Dwarf (+2 con, more hp, more rage, axe enhacements, awesome race)
Barbarian Level 16
Alignment: Neutral Good or True Neutral. Minor advantages to each, with neutral good being slightly better for weapon selection, or true neutral for PvP and tanking some of the more deadly monsters which use unholy weapons.

(32 point build recommended, but playable with only 28 points)
Str 17 - +4 level ups, +6 item, +2 tome, for 29 Base, 40 Dual Raged, or 44 double madstone raged
Dex 17 - +2 tome at 1750 favor for 19 base, +5 item for 24 (Important because this because uses STWF which requies 19 base dex)
Con 16 - +2 enhance, +6 item, 24 base, +8 rage, +2 potion = 34) (endgame: +2 tome + dual madstone = 44)
Int 8 (Doesn't matter)
Wis 8 (Small negative, but this made up for by great enhancements - dwarven spell resistance)
Cha 6 (Not that important, tho 6 cha does mean you get helpless to cha damage from time to time)

28 Point Stats:
Str 16 - lose 1 here
Dex 17 - Have to keep 17 dex to meet prereq
Con 15 - lose 1 here
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 6

Keep in the mind the only tome required to make the build work is the +2 dex tome you need to get at 1750 favor before level15. The rest should be doable given heavy raiding, but are not required for this build to perform well.

Feats:
1 - Two Weapon Fighting
3 - Power Attack
6 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9 - Improved critical (This can be slash or pierce depending on your favourite weapons, but I recommend slash overall)
12 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15 - Stunning Blow. For now anyways. Superior Two Weapon Fighting was not put in mod6. So if/when it is, swap to it.

Enhancements:
Rank - Progression
Level 1
1 - 1 [barbarian] - Damage Reduction Boost I
2 - 2 [dwarf] - Spell Defense I
4 - 4 [dwarf] - Axe Damage I
Level 2
6 - 5 [barbarian] - Extend Rage I
7 - 6 [barbarian] - Extra Rage I
9 - 8 [dwarf] - Constitution (Dwarven) I
Level 3
11 - 9 [barbarian] - Power Rage I
12 - 10 [barbarian] - Hardy Rage I
14 - 12 [barbarian] - Damage Reduction Boost II
Level 4
17 - 14 [dwarf] - Spell Defense II
19 - 16 [barbarian] - Extend Rage II
Level 5
21 - 17 [barbarian] - Sprint Boost I
22 - 18 [barbarian] - Willpower I
24 - 20 [barbarian] - Power Rage II
Level 6
29 - 24 [dwarf] - Axe Damage II
Level 7
33 - 27 [barbarian] - Damage Reduction Boost III
Level 8
37 - 30 [barbarian] - Extend Rage III
Level 9
41 - 33 [dwarf] - Spell Defense III
Level 10
46 - 37 [barbarian] - Damage Reduction Boost IV
Level 11
51 - 41 [barbarian] - Extend Rage IV
53 - 43 [barbarian] - Critical Rage I
Level 12
56 - 45 [barbarian] - Extra Rage II
58 - 47 [barbarian] - Hardy Rage II
Level 13
62 - 50 [barbarian] - Power Rage III
Level 14
67 - 54 [barbarian] - Critical Rage II
69 - 56 [dwarf] - Axe Attack I
Level 15
72 - 58 [barbarian] - Constitution I
73 - 59 [barbarian] - Power Attack I
Level 16
76 - 61 [barbarian] - Power Attack II
79 - 64 [barbarian] - Power Attack III

Tho you would want to modify this order somewhat depending on what equipment you aquire, for example if you had a str tome - modify power rage to keep your end str even, same for con/hearty rage, and if you get really high con like +6 item and +2 tome - you can then drop some extend rage and still end up perma raged and have a few more points for other things like more action boost.

Important Equipment to aquire by level12:
Dual +5 Dwarven Axes - This should be your main weapon set until you can get some nicer named items or greater banes, Do not mind the -4 to hit you will suffer using these - this build gains more then enough to hit anything in the game even with the penalty just fine, even with power attack on.
Bursting Dwarven Axess (these rule at mid lvl especially if you use them on monsters with vulnerabilitis to those elements, you'll want to find at least +3 versions as to-hit bonus does matter at these levels)
Mithral Fullplate (+3 is as good as +5 Full plate - just check your local auction house you should be able to get some early on)
Important equipment to attain by level 12:
Reavers Ring (fear imunity, very important on a moderate willsave char)
Fragment of the silver flame (dominate imunity)
Proof against poison item (belt usualy works good)
Disease Imunity Item (belt again, mummy rot sucks)
Blindness Ward item (I use the dragon googles, but any old set will do, ones with +spot are really nice tho)
+4 Strength gloves (might wanna replace the deleras ones if possible to keep your dex up)
Heavy Fortification Item (Do black anvil mines, collect some ore, get your necklace or do the ochard, collect tapestries and get the minos legens helm)
Set of potions always: 100 haste, 100 rage, 100 lesser restore, 100 remove curse, couple remove fear, couple protection vs energy. Have these in a quick to access hotkey as youll want to restore your rage and power it back up with a rage pot after each cycle.
Rage, Sheild, Devine favor,Devine power, haste clickes (these really increase your power during short boss battles, but cant be maintained to a long rage length - so there not a high priority)
By level 14:
Greater Bane Dwarven Axes (these are the best DPS for the end game lvl14++)
+6 stat items, should have at least Str and Con, ideally wis too. Recommend black dragon helm for dex to free up other slots.
Some raid loot, hard to say you should have it by then, but you could have at least 1 or 2 helpfull items. Reaver stuffs pretty easy to get currently. Top items you will want to strive for are Titan Belt, Beareavement and Madstone Boots. So try to do Reaver and Titan as often as possible.

You can ofcourse swap Dwarven Axes for Heavy picks if you happen to have allot more and better picks. But overall dwarven axes will be best for this build.

Any other improved/greater resist cloaks/rings you can get. Otherwise ask the cleric, you need those buffs to do well.

Skills:
Balance
Spot
Jump (Get this to about ~15-17 ranks and stop, that should put you at 40 while raged, which is the cap)
1 Rank of Tumble (sacrifce balance at hte early levels you won't need much)

Spot:
Crossclass skill, but very much worth it. Like the class video says, barbarians make good scouts.. And really, played correctly they do indeed, they are often best for running into stealthed enemies and traps if you don't have a rogue, and sometimes even if you do have a not so tough rough. So seeing the stealthed enemies is a huge asset. This works quite well if you get the FF/+spot item from like Co6. Youll also noticed the odd trap or secret door, even in high level quest. Even finding most of the trap boxes for the rogues lately as I got my spot up to 25 (well at mid levels).

Jump:
As a frontline combatant, your primary job is to run really fast and jump over the enemies frontline combatants.. To kill there clerics and wizards in the back ranks. So many barbarians don't realise how huge this is. Trust me, its HUGE.

Tumble:
Lets you move faster when under the effects of a bad spell like slow or that nasty white dragons ice freeze effect.

Balance:
Important for monsters that trip often. For the most part this DC is only 15 and easy to make, but it does scale slightly higher for bosses lik the demon queen - hers is about DC20. Also important if you want to be good at PvP - other players trip DCs can be very high.

No intimidate? :
Your a low AC deathdealer, you do not want agro, you want the enemy dead before he makes you dead.

Thoughts on the build at lvl14-16 in module 5 vs 6:
Barbarians are very powerful now, and in module6 with superior TWF we will just be that much better. I've only played this build for a week now so I don't have a ton to say about it other then it works pretty much the same as my old THF version. Overall I think the single target DPS will match my THF given the most powerful weapons, and in cases where you need to use weapons like vorpals it may outpace it.

Oh and for those who like numbers:

Expected overall attack progression at level16 max buffed with the best possible gear:
+40/40/40/40/45/45/50/50/50/50/50 - Yes that is 5 attacks in a row at +50 to hit - you will not miss not having oversized TWF. Well it's 9 hits for now until you can get superior TWF which adds the 10th hit.

Pretty intense to-hit score given the massive -8 penalty you get for power attack eh.. But definetely attainable.

(Updated for module 6 release)

I see one major issue. Tomes do not make you meet feat requirements. At least they aren't supposed to maybe ddo has messed it up to where they do not sure.

[brshelton]

I see one major issue. Tomes do not make you meet feat requirements. At least they aren't supposed to maybe ddo has messed it up to where they do not sure.

it was changed in mod 4 or 5 so they do

[Shade]

Recent dev post says they decided not to put STWF in the game at all. They are still considering adding it but may never add it at all.. So not really an issue for this build currently.. much less a major one.

Works for me anyways.. I managed to find both a +2 str and +2 con tomes in the shroud.. Yet still haven't reached 1750 favor to get the dex one heh.

And stunning blow is such an awesome feat for TWF where you get double the chance to land it that I might not even swap for STWF at all if they do add it.

[stockwizard5]

Interesting ...

This got me thinking about some of these builds a bit and I think I have myself convinced that a 14 Fighter / 2 Barb or 14 Fighter / 2 Rogue is actually more DPS than the MAX DPS Tempest or Barbarians discussed here.

Let's look at equivelent strength ...

Fighter 14 Barb 2: 18 (base) + 4 (levels) + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 3 (enhancements) + 8 (WS + GSW) + 4* (limited raged) + X* (rage stuff) = 46
Fighter 14 Rogue 2: 18 (base) + 4 (levels) + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 3 (enhancements) + 4* (limited raged) + X (rage stuff) + 11** (limited sneak attacking) = 49
Barbarian 14 Fighter 2: 18 (base) + 4 (levels) + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 1 (enhancements) + 9* (always raged) + X (rage stuff) = 41

Let's look at attack speed ...

Fighter 14 Barb 2: +30% Haste Boost (limited uses)
Fighter 14 Rogue 2: +30% Haste Boost (limited uses)
Barbarian 14 Fighter 2: +15 Haste Boost (limited uses)

And of course Crit Range with lets say Khopesh ...

Fighter 14 Barb 2: 17-20
Fighter 14 Rogue 2: 17-20
Barbarian 14 Fighter 2: 15-20* (while raged against no fortification)

At first blush these all look rather close with some having the upper hand sometimes and the others other times.

Hmmmmm? Of course against Pit Fiend Elite its the F14/B2 hands down.

[brshelton]

Interesting ...

This got me thinking about some of these builds a bit and I think I have myself convinced that a 14 Fighter / 2 Barb or 14 Fighter / 2 Rogue is actually more DPS than the MAX DPS Tempest or Barbarians discussed here.

Let's look at equivelent strength ...

Fighter 14 Barb 2: 18 (base) + 4 (levels) + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 3 (enhancements) + 8 (WS + GSW) + 4* (limited raged) + X* (rage stuff) = 46
Fighter 14 Rogue 2: 18 (base) + 4 (levels) + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 3 (enhancements) + 4* (limited raged) + X (rage stuff) + 11** (limited sneak attacking) = 49
Barbarian 14 Fighter 2: 18 (base) + 4 (levels) + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 1 (enhancements) + 9* (always raged) + X (rage stuff) = 41

Let's look at attack speed ...

Fighter 14 Barb 2: +30% Haste Boost (limited uses)
Fighter 14 Rogue 2: +30% Haste Boost (limited uses)
Barbarian 14 Fighter 2: +15 Haste Boost (limited uses)

And of course Crit Range with lets say Khopesh ...

Fighter 14 Barb 2: 17-20
Fighter 14 Rogue 2: 17-20
Barbarian 14 Fighter 2: 15-20* (while raged against no fortification)

At first blush these all look rather close with some having the upper hand sometimes and the others other times.

Hmmmmm? Of course against Pit Fiend Elite its the F14/B2 hands down.

Why not a 15/1 Ranger/Fighter with a 38 STR and +12 damage vs the Pit Fiend and 3 other monster types? Also have 15% Haste Boost and Tempest. I think thats hands down the best.