GS weapon

[delsoboss]

Planning 1 cheap (large ingredient wise) gs weapon for my soon(tm)-to-TR fighter (TR into barbarian), wanted to know your opinions about the different "triple"s weapon you can make and which one is all around more usefull. So far asking around it seems the choice is between triple earth and triple positive.
Thoughts? Recommendation? Why one si better than the other? What other "triple"s are good all around?
Thanks for the replies.

[Horkrux]

Raids:

Pit Fiend Raids, Normal: Lit 2 superior by a modest amount
Pit Fiend Raids, Hard: Min 2 superior by a modest amount
Pit Fiend Raids, Elite: Min 2 outclasses Lit 2
Epic Lailat: Min 2 outclasses Lit 2
Epic Velah: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
Abbot: Not important, DPS plays only a minor role in this raid
Hound: Not important, DPS is extremely unimportant in this raid

Tough Quests:

Amrath Elite: Lit 2 ahead by a long way
Epic OOB: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
Epic Wiz-King: Blunt is the key here, both are pretty bad unless blunt.
Epic VON1-3: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
Epic Big Top: Not sure, haven't tested Malicia's susceptability to various elements, nor her DR.
Epic Sentinels: Run too little of it to know.

Levelling a TR:

In general, Lit 2 outclasses Min 2 as DR is rare.

Nuff said

[Zillee]

Except he's asking about the triple weapons ...

I'm liking my triple positive maul, but not tried the others yet so consider that an uninformed opinion!

[Tenchi]

Of course Lightning 2 and Mineral 2 is the most popular greensteel weapons by far, and are the most useful.

However, if you want cheap and functional GS, triple positive would be my suggestion: Disruption with Rez clicky for dying healers. Triple Positive would probably be a weapon you would not throw away, when you find an Epic weapon you want to use or make another (better) GS weapon.

Earth would be a good second choice for the earth ellies and the Earthgrab.

[kuro_zero]

Both are pretty solid and I think it comes down to whether you want to be better versus trash or bosses.

Triple earth for the earthgrab proc will mow through anything it lands on. Not sure of there is a reflex save, though, but I hear they're pretty good in epics.

Triple positive gives you much better damage proc's - holy + good burst + good blast is alot of extra dice in damage. FvS? Even better when aura of vengeance procs.

Also, you can go for 30% healing amp for 3rd tier instead on triple positive. Pretty big boon on a barb when mass heal is on cooldown.

[Dexol]

I'd go trip pos with greater disruption.

Good damage on fleshies and great on undead so you will use it forever.

raise clickie for a bonus

[andbr22]

Triple positive is 3 LDS, and probably i would keep it blunt for undead killing.
Triple earth is solid choise (2 LDS) - effect proc quite often, and hard to resist (it takes effect even on epics (as long as you don't want to hit archers or drows)).
Triple air is very bad choise as it adds quard.
Triple negative -> none DPS weapon you probably would be better with solid vorpal.
Triple fire is troublesome weapon (3 LDS) -> it should be the best single shard DPS weapon (still gona be outclased by Lighting 2 when you finaly make them) BUT way too many enemies at endgame is immune to fire. Only place where it work wonderusly is this ice valley in Raver Reach.
Triple water (3 LDS) -> Dmg on special attacks is solid (specially since half of dmg is blundgeon),but Wiki state it have very low chance to proc.

Also the main trouble with most single shard weapons is that they do not break devils DR, so have small usage even against trash devils (breaded / orthons), especialy since devils also have high resistances or immunietes to all but lighting and holy.
My choise would be triple earth. as the cheapest solid dps with solid CC proc.

[Luxx0r]

Also the main trouble with most single shard weapons is that they do not break devils DR, so have small usage even against trash devils (breaded / orthons), especialy since devils also have high resistances or immunietes to all but lighting and holy.

Mmmmm.... Just to clarify, triple positive breaks the DR of trash devils (barbazu/orthon) because both of them have DR/good OR silver.

Also, the suggestion to put 30% heal amp at the tier III sounds as a very good idea.

[delsoboss]

Thanks for the answers, i think i'll go for triple earth.
But i'll hold the choice until i have the tokens to TR then on my last Shroud i'll decide, no need to rush things.

[FooWonk]

I'd say it depends upon the type of weapon you want to make. Triple positive really shines when 18-20 or better crit profiles and against undead. My first green steel weapon was a triple positive scimitar. Except against raid bosses on hard & elite or when I have to s&b through elite Amrath, that weapon never leaves my favored soul's right hand.

The only case that the triple earth will out-do it during leveling is with trolls. The earth grab is nice but I'd rather get that on an accessory (for +65 HP).

If you plan to play primary DPS in your next life, the triple positive will be the best cheap weapon. However, you may want to consider holding out a bit longer for a Lit2 (don't bother with a Min2 unless your feat constrained).

[Sarisa]

In addition to providing very good DPS to undead (especially when blunt), a Triple Positive also provides a Raise Dead clickie, something everyone should have. I would probably still recommend the first tier 3 be a LitII or a MinII (MinII is less valuable now because there are many other DR breaking options). A tier 2 Positive weapon is still a good undead beater, and still provides the Raise Dead clickie.

While Sirgog's repost is very accurate, there are a few changes to the game since then. DPS is now important in Abbot. With the added damage that Greater Disruption provides, a Triple Positive maul or pair of Warhammers is a very good thing to have for that raid.

Malicia's DR can be broken with just /Good. The Demon of the Frenzied Depths can also be broken with just /Good.

Epic Sentinels and Epic Fens are LitII paradises. Almost nothing in there is resistant or immune to lightning, and there is no significant DR aside from the Hezrou's /Good. The zombies in Epic Black Loch have low DR, so even blunt Triple Positives do significant damage.

[TheDjinnFor]

Planning 1 cheap (large ingredient wise) gs weapon for my soon(tm)-to-TR fighter (TR into barbarian), wanted to know your opinions about the different "triple"s weapon you can make and which one is all around more usefull. So far asking around it seems the choice is between triple earth and triple positive.

I assume either you want to make a throwaway GS item because you're going some kind of completionist caster build, or because you want to TR back into a TWF toon but are thinking of going THF as a barbarian so you want a cheap throwaway THF for a single TR (or you might be going monk).

If it's the former (or a monk), a Triple Positive does good all-round DPS and will still be a raise clicky later on. I'd go Triple Positive (unless the raise isn't going to be useful for your toon), although Earth will certainly make leveling easier due to the earthgrab proc and summon. IMO raise > summon for end-game utility.

If it's the later, you can go TWF barbarian for a TR if that helps, and that way you can make a pair of Lit 2s (if you haven't already; that way you get a great DPS weapon for your TR and don't have to waste larges making Lit 2s later on). THF only really outclasses TWF when you get an ESoS; before that it's a bit of a wash, although going with a pair of Lit 2 TWF over a Pos 2 THF will easily swing the balance in favor of TWF thanks to the power of the Lightning Strike proc. Unless you have a pair of great epic weapons lined up and ready to go, make a pair of Lit 2s: they'll last you a long time and they'll be much better DPS in the interim.

[Kinerd]

A triple positive can be optimal DPS in a few situations (if blunt) and has a clicky that is crucial in a few situations (regardless of damage type). A triple earth can make neither of those claims.

[delsoboss]

snip

Uhm, never thought of this. The plan is some sort of multi TR warchanter bard in the long run so i'll be getting some usefull past lives first and since i haven't yet unlocked 32 points TR is a way to get from 28 to 34 and then 36 points builds. Probably the barbarian life will be the only one using thf so, looking at things with that in mind triple positive is clearly winning.
I want to make a cheap gs weapon now because i'm finishing the second double shard item for my main and i'm planning another doubleshard item for another character and given that my farming capabilities have a limit (i can only take a finite number of repetitions every week before going incapped) i don't want to be stuck waiting for the larges to drop instead of TRing right away when i got the tokens (or shortly after).

[eulogy098]

I find Earthgrab to be tragically underrated for the very large majority of the games content. Acid works most stuff and the earthgrab save is very very rarely made.

In my opinion it is very much so superior to Lit2 in everything except devil/demon content. For the most part a Lightning strike is complete overkill, so the superior proc rate (seems drastically superior too) of earth grab and the ability to give barbs some CC is very useful. Supreme cleaving a group of 5 monsters and watching 2 or 3 of them get grabbed is sweet.

I see lit2 as only really superior and in fact useful at all as a BossBeater. But in the advent of new crafting there are better ways to get specific boss beaters.

So except for Shavarath and parts of the vale, I truly believe that earth-earth-earth is the best greensteel weapon. Especially in epics. The fact that it only requires one supreme shard is just a bonus. I use two earthgrab dwarven waraxes and an earthgrab helmet on my TWF Barb, it's a ****ton of fun.


Make Earthgrab and get side boss/devil/demon beaters.

[Kinerd]

I find Earthgrab to be tragically underrated for the very large majority of the games content. Acid works most stuff and the earthgrab save is very very rarely made.

In my opinion it is very much so superior to Lit2 in everything except devil/demon content. For the most part a Lightning strike is complete overkill, so the superior proc rate (seems drastically superior too) of earth grab and the ability to give barbs some CC is very useful. Supreme cleaving a group of 5 monsters and watching 2 or 3 of them get grabbed is sweet.

I see lit2 as only really superior and in fact useful at all as a BossBeater. But in the advent of new crafting there are better ways to get specific boss beaters.

So except for Shavarath and parts of the vale, I truly believe that earth-earth-earth is the best greensteel weapon. Especially in epics. The fact that it only requires one supreme shard is just a bonus. I use two earthgrab dwarven waraxes and an earthgrab helmet on my TWF Barb, it's a ****ton of fun.


Make Earthgrab and get side boss/devil/demon beaters.

I think the reason for it being underrated is that in most late-game content people run with a competent CCer, making barb CC totally superfluous and the earthgrabber just a super acid weapon. In those cases, why not go with the super duper lightning weapon instead?

[Sarisa]

While Earthgrab is pretty good when levelling, I was very disappointed with mine in epics and end game. It doesn't break devil DR, and they still have acid resistance that makes most of its extra damage useless. Epic mobs saves are generally too high for it to grab them that often, and without autocrit, it just doesn't seem worth the cost.

Barb CC like Stunning Blow and Trip generally works better in epics than Earthgrab in my opinion.

[jaegarnel]

According to the description in GS planners, earthgrab procs 5% of the time (not really reliable enough for CC) and has a DC of 35.

As someone with a capped wizard, I can tell you that a lot of mobs in endgame will make their reflex save against a 35 DC. I can also tell you that acid is probably the second most resisted element in endgame after fire. Except trolls, I don't remember anything vulnerable to it, and there are also plenty of relatively common mobs, like spiders, who are immune or resistant to acid.
OTOH, I don't think anything in the game resists holy damage, though I could be wrong about that, since arcanes can't do holy dmg.

So unless the description is wrong, I don't think a triple earth weapon will be more useful than a triple positive, even when levelling.

[eulogy098]

There's a good deal more resistant to Holy then there is Acid. Elementals of every type, animals, eladrin(lol), constructs (except shroud portals), a number of humanoid targets. Really only devils are an issue with acid. Measure the game as a whole and far more are immune to holy then are resistant to acid.

I see my earthgrab land just about every time it procs in epics. 35 save is worthless if its fortitude, but for reflex its very very reliable currently.

[FooWonk]

There's a good deal more resistant to Holy then there is Acid. Elementals of every type, animals, eladrin(lol), constructs (except shroud portals), a number of humanoid targets. Really only devils are an issue with acid. Measure the game as a whole and far more are immune to holy then are resistant to acid.

I see my earthgrab land just about every time it procs in epics. 35 save is worthless if its fortitude, but for reflex its very very reliable currently.

Positive 3 is Holy + Good Burst + Good Blast ... so unless the target is good, the damage resisted is just from the Holy (2d6). For the beginning of Running With Devils and beating on a certain LG beholder you may want to use something else. Against all those neutral targets, you lose 6 damage per swing. That loss of dps will only bring it in line with the Earth 3.

Earthgrab is useful in higher level content when it sticks. From the time I pull out my green steel until epic & certain raids, there's not much content that earthgrab makes easier. In Prey on hunter and Ausserix it comes in handy; otherwise, trash usually doesn't last past a few swings.