Max DPS TWF Build

[Westerner]

Shade has earned his stripes - I think that is clear from Shade's posts and such to even the people who haven't played with him. What isn't clear to me is what are the stripes of some other posters on this thread especially people who go on someone else's build thread and tell them to take a hike. It is a free forum and such, but civility is always good.

Sounds to me like you are seeking to evaluate ideas solely on the basis of the posters in-game achievements, which I think is overly limiting. Who cares how many times the poster's beaten the Shroud on Elite? I care more about how the posted information can help me. Less experienced posters can sometimes come up with the more creative ideas, because they're not mired in "this is how it's always been done" mentality.

Those who demand civility would do well to first extend it themselves.

[Shade]

Yes, but it's all about now.

You cannot talk about the future, you do not know it. People are trying to figure out the exact TWF DPS right now, look at the thread's title and dare me say it's not the right place. Maybe you say your build will stand in the future, but you cannot know if your will be the highest DPS at one point. Fact is, yours is not the highest DPS right now... so peopel talk about what would be the highest right now.

You can keep saying no it isn't and I'll keep saying yes it is. Another post of mine was the top possible DPS numbers - The reason it doesn't get the title of top dps build is because its not really a good playable build, thats just how DDO works. So telling me its not the max theoretical numbers does nothing to change the fact that it's an accurate title.

And I can talk about the future because so far I've done very well at predicting it. My first posted build - designed in beta still stands as one of the best barbarians builds today, with no real changes other then keeping it updated to current enhancements.

[Borror0]

The reason it doesn't get the title of top dps build is because its not really a good playable build, thats just how DDO works. So telling me its not the max theoretical numbers does nothing to change the fact that it's an accurate title.

First, I know that amd I agree that the rel max TWF DPS build must be an effective one. This build is effective and is a good one, but a human with green stell khopesh out DPS this one, and the human with khopesh is still a good build.

Secondly, in the post you quoted, all I said was that since it's called max TWF DPS, people can talk of DPS on your thread. It's like if I titled my AC tank "Max AC build", well I'd be ready to face people trying to come up with good builds that can beat my AC.

And I can talk about the future because so far I've done very well at predicting it. My first posted build - designed in beta still stands as one of the best barbarians builds today, with no real changes other then keeping it updated to current enhancements.

That's luck, all of a sudden they could change change somehting and your build would crumble appart. they could add a feat that would add crazy DPS... but ask for a stat you don't have, for example. I know it's a bad one, but you get the picture... future is future, unless you got a scrying orb... you can't base yourself on saying "this will be the best DPS in the future".

[Shade]

Updated build.

[Shade]

Updated build.

[Ladywolf]

awesome build!

[Absolute-Omniscience]

awesome build!

A decent generic-barbarian build in my eyes. Hardly max dps, not even max barbarian dps for that matter.

[Shade]

Updated to switch to Frenzied Berserker.

[Ghaldar]

Shade as always good take on the Barb class thanks for the update for MOD 9.

[scphillips]

I'm playing primarily my 2hf dwarf barbarian right now, but a thought occurred to me with the way the prestige line works. It would seem like falchions and scimitars are the new best weapon for barbs on crittable mobs because they have the largest crit threat range and basically the prestige line is giving you +3 to crit multiplier (FB 2 + FB 3 + Death frenzy). With the abilities being additive you are looking at DAs 3x crit going to 6x over only 1/3 the threat range of those weapons that are now 5x crit mod.

Right now I'm considering making an elf barb if I want to reroll a twf barb, thoughts on that?

[Shade]

I'm playing primarily my 2hf dwarf barbarian right now, but a thought occurred to me with the way the prestige line works. It would seem like falchions and scimitars are the new best weapon for barbs on crittable mobs because they have the largest crit threat range and basically the prestige line is giving you +3 to crit multiplier (FB 2 + FB 3 + Death frenzy). With the abilities being additive you are looking at DAs 3x crit going to 6x over only 1/3 the threat range of those weapons that are now 5x crit mod.

Right now I'm considering making an elf barb if I want to reroll a twf barb, thoughts on that?

The crit multiplier increase is only on a 19-20 regardless of your weapons critical threat. So it benenfits all weapons fairly equally.

[gfunk]

The crit multiplier increase is only on a 19-20 regardless of your weapons critical threat. So it benenfits all weapons fairly equally.

if thats true would you be able to dump your improved crit slash for dwarven axe users and still get the 19-20 crit regardless? or have they made it so that it only works if you already have a base 19-20 crit range?

If you could dump improved crit, than you would have room for both toughness and stunning blow.

[Shade]

if thats true would you be able to dump your improved crit slash for dwarven axe users and still get the 19-20 crit regardless? or have they made it so that it only works if you already have a base 19-20 crit range?

If you could dump improved crit, than you would have room for both toughness and stunning blow.

Guess I worded it badly..

Only on a critical hit, and only on a 19-20. If your weapon only crits on a 20.. No free dmg on a 19.

If your particular weapon can only crit on a 19-20, that doesn't mean you always get the multiplier increase on a crit either.. Because you can use hit a held mob, or use stunning blow to make them auto crit.. Then you will see a string of criticals, some low and some high as the non 19-20 rolls will crit, but not be incresed by +3 multiplier.

However the reverse would be true also which does benefit you:
If for example you use the Tenderize (20/x2) but are slash spec with improve crit slash.. Obviously you can only crit on a 20.. Yet if the Wieighted 5% procs its stun, you will crit on a 19. And on a TWF build, you can actually do this in 1 swimg.. Stunning blow first swim + 2nd hit is counted after, as a attack hook versus auto crit, and if its a 19-20.. +3 multiplier.

Confused you enough yet? heh.

So no I wouldn't recommend dropping improved crit. Also some ppl recommend doing so if you craft dual min2.. I disagree with that also. Diversity of weaponry is one of the Barbarians strengths, unlike a Kensai limited to 1 weapon , a barbarian excels with all weapons, and should carry a good variety.

[Ladywolf]

bump for quick reference

[Baltaz]

So i know the THF build switched from dwarf to warforged, but is this one still better as dwarf? I know next to nothing about this game so if it is really obvious its better as dwarf dont bite my head off just say which is better and maybe an explanation if you dont mind.

EDIT: So its cause of the free triple crit one handed weapon right? dont have to spend a feat on it like a warforged would.

[Shade]

So i know the THF build switched from dwarf to warforged, but is this one still better as dwarf? I know next to nothing about this game so if it is really obvious its better as dwarf dont bite my head off just say which is better and maybe an explanation if you dont mind.

EDIT: So its cause of the free triple crit one handed weapon right? dont have to spend a feat on it like a warforged would.

First off, WF isn't better for THF either. WF and Dwarf are both very good races for barbarians and they are well balanced.

WF gets more dps THF thanks to power attack and great weapon enhancements.. But suffers the an xtra -3 to hit (-5 if dwarf attacks taken), -50% healing penalty and lower saves.

Yea for TWF, WF would need to spend a feat on a weapon. So imo Dwarf is slightly better due to that. You could spalsh fighter to fit that feat in, but you sacrifice the capstone, mighty rage and other benefits to do so, so theres no real net gain.

Also with TWF -4 to hit penalty already, tossing another -3 for WF power attack is very hard to handle until end game.. End game AC's are pathetic so it would be fine atm.. But next update brings us epic mode - and epic ACs.. And a WF TWF build with all enhancements would not be able to the hit the broadside of a barn in epic mode (AC's are in the 65-70+ range).. So they'd have to sacrifice some power attack, and thus lose one of there big advantages.

[excess]

I know these were in favor at some point in the past, but, speaking on WF vs dwarf TWF builds: how much worse then a DA wielding dwarf barbarian would a WF Heavy + Light Pick barbarian be?

Factoring the x7 crit on a 19-20 for picks with improved crit: pierce it seems like a nice option should you favor toasters over other races but can't fit the khopesh feat in your build, no?

[Shade]

I know these were in favor at some point in the past, but, speaking on WF vs dwarf TWF builds: how much worse then a DA wielding dwarf barbarian would a WF Heavy + Light Pick barbarian be?

Factoring the x7 crit on a 19-20 for picks with improved crit: pierce it seems like a nice option should you favor toasters over other races but can't fit the khopesh feat in your build, no?

Not much worse. It's a valid build. WF and Dwarf are the top 2 Barbarian races and fairly well balanced, just depends on what you like.

Disadvantages:
No racial weapon attack bonuses means you will have trouble hitting certain things very early on, and endgame in epic content.
Lower base dice, plus no racial dmg enhancements means less dps in most cases
Lower saves - 2 base, and up to 5 via enhancements
Lower healing amp, -50% penalty
Vorpals don't come in pierce flavor

Advantages:
Superior dps versus auto crit targets (so with stunning blow its a nice combo)
Access to more power attack enhancements (lvl6-19 this can help dps, at 20 if you run epic, they willl only lower it)
WF Racial Immunities (frees up several slots)
WF Repair ability (Group with either arcane or divine and stay alive easier)
Pierce spec allows access to stronger stat damage weapons

[NuclearCoffee]

Hey, just wondering why you did not take oversized TWF?? thanks!!

[Ambulance]

@ Nuclear:

you don´t really need it as a lvl 20 FB barb. Two Weapon Fighting reduces penalties for fighting with two weapons (by 2 iirc). And even at current endgame content a raged barb will hit pretty much everything. There´s not much difference between 47 to hit and 49, is there?