Eliminate Raid Prerequisites for DQ and VON

[Beherit_Baphomar]

No, no they aren't. Except for Tempest's Spine, I abhor each and every raid I've been in (which discounts the Abbot).

Reasons:

1) It is virtually impossible to get 12 guild members (let alone PUG members) to coordinate well. Someone is always AFK. Someone always falls behind and needs help to get back. Someone drops connection. Etc., etc. - Isnt this kinda part of the fun in running with the guild?

2) Game mechanics. In an attempt to make raids "challenging" (which they aren't), they've made things absolutely ridiculous. It's not about finding an appropriate course of action for them, it's about finding the appropriate course of action. I'd rather read a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book, they have more variety. - Agree'd. Not sure what it has to do with this discussion though. Velah Elite can be challenging, DQ elite can be challenging. Reaver elite is not, Titan elite is not, but has several different techniques to beat him. Abbot, well....

3) Loot. Most people think it's a good thing, I think it's mostly bad. I've had more negative experiences with the raid loot system than I have had positive ones. People rolling and winning things that will serve them not at all, when multiple people in the party would benefit immensely from the item. People placing dimension doors around chests with no way to get back in. In the old system, party leaders taking the glyphs and the raid loot without even asking about it. The bad experiences go on and on. - You just run with the wrong people it seems. My guild fight cause they dont want to take items from someone else. "No, here, have the boots" "I dont want em dude, I get em next time" "Dude, take the boots!" "I dont WANT em bro, you have em" "Dude" "Dude"

The raids we have now (excluding the Abbot raid, which I don't know that much about) are horrible, and the grouping for them is worse, not better. Everyone who claims otherwise is completely transparent. We all know better. - Really? Are you on Agronnessen? If you are I'll try save you a spot for our guild Reaver/Titan/Dragon run one week, see if maybe we can change your mind.

Answers in Glaring Fire Engine Red.

[muffinlad]

Once each of the pre-reqs are set to elite, no more re-flagging please. Make VoN 5 and Dq1 the qalifiers.

muffinraider

[Raithe]

So uh... you run the Vons twice a week or so per character?

If you do, then you are the exception to the rule. If not... and you don't run them very often (almost ever) on your capped characters, then you made my point for me which was, people only run Von 1-4 for flagging purposes. They don't actually run 1-4 day in and day out because they love Von 1-4.

As a matter of fact, I do run the VoNs probably (on average) once a week overall (not per character). I do not run VoN 5 and 6 that often. Not even close. I would say I've completed VoN 1-4 about 3 times as many times as I've complete VoN 5 on any of my characters, and probably 4 times as many times as VoN 6 (due to failures).

Your supposition that everyone plays like you is completely false. But more importantly, and the point I was actually making, is that you don't run the raids the way you are claiming. If you did, it would be absurd. It's all about getting the loot at the end, and everyone reading this thread knows it, whether they'll admit or not. Even I will admit that I've run the Reaver Raid almost 40 times now on my characters because the groups are so plentiful and I know it will make plat rather than lose it (which is marginally better than wasting my time looking at the LFM screen).

That said, I am in full support of the OP's suggestion at this point. I think the faster everyone can get their raid loot and leave the game, the better. The type of players that actually enjoy adventure rather than loot are where the long term viability of the game resides, and other types actually impede their enjoyment.

[bobbryan2]

As a matter of fact, I do run the VoNs probably (on average) once a week overall (not per character). I do not run VoN 5 and 6 that often. Not even close. I would say I've completed VoN 1-4 about 3 times as many times as I've complete VoN 5 on any of my characters, and probably 4 times as many times as VoN 6 (due to failures).

Then may I ask, why do you run Von 1-4? Out of sheer love of the quests?

[Petro]

VoN 6 is probably one of the coolest looking places in stormreach, was then still is now. VoN5 is the passage to this place. VoN 1-4 is just a PITA. I mean really how many times do I have to regroup the laughing knives. every three days they get stuck in the same situations I saved them from before.

Demon Queen..... well..... just.... yea.
Stop making me give Zawabi the same **** every three days.. He keeps loosing the scroll, the orb, and the other thingy all the time.

[bobbryan2]

Your supposition that everyone plays like you is completely false. But more importantly, and the point I was actually making, is that you don't run the raids the way you are claiming. If you did, it would be absurd. It's all about getting the loot at the end, and everyone reading this thread knows it, whether they'll admit or not.

So you're saying that running quests a lot means you only want the end reward, and not because you like the quest?

Sorry, you sound a bit jaded and frustrated at the entire raid system. I run the quests I like a lot.

[Grimmlock]

It all comes down to they need to change the way the flagging is for these Raids. If they want people to grind for favor/flagging/sigils/relics and all the other bull, we just ask that the requirements for the Raid or Pre-Raid/Raids be adjusted. Any capped player running either of the Raids is pretty much in it for the Favor or Loot. Some run it for Guildies others for the loot ad some for gits and shiggles, but a casual player will not be able to run these raids more than once a month if that. If this game was built for the casual gamer why would you not make a change like this? I think we might just be beating our heads against the wall on this one.

[Hafeal]

Your supposition that everyone plays like you is completely false. But more importantly, and the point I was actually making, is that you don't run the raids the way you are claiming. If you did, it would be absurd. It's all about getting the loot at the end, and everyone reading this thread knows it, whether they'll admit or not. Even I will admit that I've run the Reaver Raid almost 40 times now on my characters because the groups are so plentiful and I know it will make plat rather than lose it (which is marginally better than wasting my time looking at the LFM screen).

Ah sweet irony. Your supposition that everyone plays because of loot or of the desire for it is false.

Don't take my word for it: http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

[chemonz]

Yes I would like to see the pre-reqs changed to be more like the Titan or Stormreaver raids. I never run the pre-reqs anymore I have just run them to much. I respect the opinions of those who disagree with me, I just feel differently (I hate the flaming and attacks, unnecessary).

/signed

[Boulderun]

I dont agree, keep them. It adds flavor to the game and for those raids..... Yes, it is a pain, but adds flavor.

The "flavor" turned sour at about the 25th repetition, I think. This particular steak has been nauseatingly over-seasoned (and then overcooked into shoe leather).

I'll try some more "flavor" if there happens to be a new, skilled chef cooking anything up. Until then I'm forced to wash this "flavor" down with rubbing alcohol - yes, it's that vile.

[JD2134]

I dont mind running Von-1-4 and the demon queen pre reqs when i was getting exp for them but after lvl 12 it not worth it to run von for exp and really after 13 or 14 it not worth it for the DQ prereqs, My suggestion is that when your high enough in lvl to get the 50% pen then you know longer have to run the prequest for flagging and it changes to reaver or titan style. Or just make it a one time flagging like titan

Dont with running prequest over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

Get the point.

[tekn0mage]

Looks like just about everyone except Dane and Raithe are on the same page with this one. Many of us, who never agree on anything, have come together on this sole issue in unison. I'd say this is a great suggestion for Thread of the Week ... if nothing else, at least attention from a Dev.

Unless the only types of Threads of the Week are off-topic threads that have little (or in some cases, nothing at all) to do with the game.

I could be wrong though.

[Mhykke]

Looks like just about everyone except Dane and Raithe are on the same page with this one. Many of us, who never agree on anything, have come together on this sole issue in unison. I'd say this is a great suggestion for Thread of the Week ... if nothing else, at least attention from a Dev.

Unless the only types of Threads of the Week are off-topic threads that have little (or in some cases, nothing at all) to do with the game.

I could be wrong though.

Well, if this http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=127302 didn't win TOTW.....

[Hvymetal]

Looks like just about everyone except Dane and Raithe are on the same page with this one. Many of us, who never agree on anything, have come together on this sole issue in unison. I'd say this is a great suggestion for Thread of the Week ... if nothing else, at least attention from a Dev.

Unless the only types of Threads of the Week are off-topic threads that have little (or in some cases, nothing at all) to do with the game.

I could be wrong though.

Although I generally do disagree with tekn0 on a lot of issues, I agree; Remove the flagging for DQ & VON. Keep DQ1 & Von5 as pre-raids.

[tekn0mage]

Well, if this http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=127302 didn't win TOTW.....

Haha owned by the month of November.

[Knightrose]

Once each of the pre-reqs are set to elite, no more re-flagging please. Make VoN 5 and Dq1 the qalifiers.

muffinraider

Actually I like this idea. It's perfect middle ground. Once you do it on elite your permanently flagged. That'd be fargin sweet. Or maybe have it so that the pre-raid needs to be done on Elite in order to be permanently flagged. That way it's actually a challenge :P

[Kambuk]

My 2c

Rather than run just the prereqs once on elite how about something a bit more meaningful like hit max favour with the group behind the quest chain?

I.E. DQ you need to run all desert quests on elite once to hit max favour then your done. (Maybe still have to run DQ1 each time)
Velah you need to hit max favour with House Kundarak, might be a bit of a pain but an incentive to hit all the quests while leveling up (or maybe 400 not sure what the max is these days.)

Kambuk

[Dane_McArdy]

My stance is less against this, as it is more that I doubt Turbine is likely to go down this road for the reasons I've stated.

The reasons people are giving for why it should be done are pretty thin. I'm not even saying you are wrong for wanting this. I can understand why you want it. And I understand why.

However, I just think you are all putting a lot of energy in to trying to get something changed that isn't likely going to happen.

[Hvymetal]

My stance is less against this, as it is more that I doubt Turbine is likely to go down this road for the reasons I've stated.

The reasons people are giving for why it should be done are pretty thin. I'm not even saying you are wrong for wanting this. I can understand why you want it. And I understand why.

However, I just think you are all putting a lot of energy in to trying to get something changed that isn't likely going to happen.

Sometimes you have to put enery into trying to change something that more than likely won't be changed anyways. (Even for something as petty and ultimatly meaningless as a game)

The reasons for keeping things as they are also are on the thin side.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Although I generally do disagree with tekn0 on a lot of issues, I agree; Remove the flagging for DQ & VON. Keep DQ1 & Von5 as pre-raids.

I agree.

Now I know in the past when this has come up that people complained that would make it easier to permaflag for these two raids than for GH or Abbot because those had a silly grind up front, but who cares. Why force the grind for weeks to keep us busy? Let us spend our in time game playing the quests we like. If we like von1-4 we will run them, if we prefer von5-6 those are the ones we will rerun. Whatever the interesting and fun quests those are the ones that will get run.