Eliminate Raid Prerequisites for DQ and VON

[Memnir]

I know plenty of people who run Titan and Reaver flagging quests because they enjoy them. Their not being an aspect of raid flagging has not made those quests 3-shots for XP and Favor, never to be repeated. If the quests are fun, they will be run no matter if they are no longer needed to reflag. And if they aren't - well, the Dev have added rare drops in quests before to make them more appealing to players.

I would run VoN even if I never needed it to flag for the Dragon again. In fact - they would be more fun without the albatross of needing them to flag around my neck. I'd run Wiz King and Chains of Flame because they are excellently designed quests that are a blast to run. (Offering, not so much)

Right now the flagging is inconsistant and confusing. The persistant reflagging has driven many long-time players away from those raids that require it. Anything that makes the game less of a grind, and more fun is a good thing. We have enough things to grind outside the raids to have to worry about flagging over & over & over & over & over. And hey - if the Devs want to keep some aspects of farming alive and well in VoN... add red scales to the Boss chests in VoN 1-4 with a really super-low drop rate & see how fast their attendance rate soars. People would grind these things, and you know it.

I know, I know.... putting in things players are asking for is crazy-talk. But hey - we like crazy around here.

[Missing_Minds]

For a change, I'm in agreement with Tekno on this one. This constant reflagging is really a pain in the rear for a game that advertised itself as a no grind game.

[CSFurious]

mud, maybe kitty litter IMO

anyway, it makes no sense due to the abbot, titan & reaver flagging, i.e., all should be the same or all should be a grind

I dont agree, keep them. It adds flavor to the game and for those raids..... Yes, it is a pain, but adds flavor.

[akla_thornfist]

/ signed lets get rid of the flagging for these 2 raids, we will still run the pre raid quest with the new charecters we make on a regular basis.

[Oreg]

Going to have to agree here as well. I despise the pre Queen flagging ritual. I wouldn't mind doing the actual pre queen quest each time but wiz, chains and offering have to go.

Vons 1-4 isn't as painful. I can't quite explain it but there is something less annoying about it and actually bordering on fun trying to see how fast we can do it.

[Jhoran]

/signed; just as I've signed the previous 10-20 threads requesting this exact same thing.


please turbine....change it.

[Dane_McArdy]

If the reason to take these requirements out is because they have been run to death and are boring to do, wouldn't that also mean that the raid has been run to death? Of course, but there is still loot to be had, new toons, and what not. So basically, people want these removed because they just want a raid loot run every three days?

At least, that's what I hear. And considering that Turbine goes out of it's way to take things like that out of the game, I can't see it happening. After all, how long is the DQ raid? Or the Dragon?

You can run von1-4 easy now. I've done just that, got a group together, ran the 4, and then raided the dragon. All in about 3 hours or less. It's not hard, it's not boring, and often I have new people in the raid, that get to learn the quest, because we explain things to new people. Everyone gets to keep the loot they pull if they want it. Last time, we pulled 5 pieces of raid loot.

Sure the quests for the DQ are not as quick as the Von's. However considering how easy the dragon and queen are, even on elite, I can't see them taking out something that might slow people down.

If all you are really after is a quick raid loot run every 3 days, I don't expect Turbine to be that quick in giving players that.

[Oreg]

I hate running to the DQ flagging quests.

[Dirkan]

/Signed

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

/signed

[Grimmlock]

if the Devs want to keep some aspects of farming alive and well in VoN... add red scales to the Boss chests in VoN 1-4 with a really super-low drop rate & see how fast their attendance rate soars. People would grind these things, and you know it.

This is the best idea I have heard in a long time about this quest. I know I would run them more frequent than once every 2 months just to have RED DRAGON SCALE ARMOR (+3 Fullplate of Superior Fire Resistance 50). And as for the DQ implement a gathering of the 3 pieces, turn in and get a new sigil or something.

[MysticTheurge]

So basically, people want these removed because they just want a raid loot run every three days?

At least, that's what I hear. And considering that Turbine goes out of it's way to take things like that out of the game, I can't see it happening.

Dane, they seem to be well aware of the failure of the Dragon and DQ systems.

If they really wanted things to work in that fashion, recent raids wouldn't be moving away from that paradigm quite so obviously.

All we're saying is that it's time to revisit the Dragon and DQ with this in mind and do something about how you have to reflag for them.

And really, how are you seeing them taking "run raids every three days" out of the game? They've clearly been adding more of those to the game as both the Reaver and the Abbot work this way.

[bobbryan2]

At least, that's what I hear. And considering that Turbine goes out of it's way to take things like that out of the game, I can't see it happening. After all, how long is the DQ raid? Or the Dragon?

That might be what you hear, but you hear what you want. So....

The dragon is one of the longest raids in the game. Perhaps even longer than the titan... so I'm not really sure where you're getting at.

And secondly, I don't think people would ultimately object to having to run Against the Demon Queen each time. That would make both of those quests longer than the Reaver, and about on par with the titan.

And what about when they changed greater teleport so that you not longer had to clear the way to the forge? Didn't that make things easier and faster, in effect allowing looting to happen more quickly? So there's an example of Turbine PUTTING things into the game that help the player base bypass frustration.

Yes, some may want to simply loot more quickly, but that isn't the root of the problem. At best, it would make looting happen about an hour faster than it would otherwise. So obviously this topic doesn't come up every couple weeks to save an hour, Does it Dane?

It comes up because people are sick of running meaningless lvl 8-11 quests for meaningless loot, 0 xp, just to get to the quest that IS fun, the DQ or Dragon. Sure people run the raids for loot... but that's not the only reason they run them. Raids represent the pinacle of challenge, teamwork, and skill in DDO quests. People run them because they're fun, and because that's what makes their gaming experience joyable.

Having to do an extra 2-4 hours of grinding a week to simply get to do half that in raiding a week is just annoying.

"Yes, we'll let you go have fun. But for every hour of fun, you have to put in 2 hours of mind-numbing boredom."

So please, Dane, you can disagree if you want, but stop putting words in people's mouths, and accusing them of being greedy loot ****** that have no scruples when making suggestions to get their loot faster.

[Laith]

If the reason to take these requirements out is because they have been run to death and are boring to do, wouldn't that also mean that the raid has been run to death? Of course, but there is still loot to be had, new toons, and what not. So basically, people want these removed because they just want a raid loot run every three days?

Not every three days, but sometimes.

Casual players are hurt far more by flagging prereqs than the hardcore.

I love VoN5-6, but I'm pretty much done with reflagging for them at this point.
I like the DQ preraid/raid, but have almost never run it due to the required reflagging of either myself or my guildies that had to be done. There's always SOMEONE who needs it and really wants to come (or is really needed).

1-2 hours after we decide that a DQ raid would be cool, many have generally realized they have to log. Sure, many of us are flagged for that elusive "next time", but that almost never quickly.

[Aspenor]

/signed

Please remove the comprehensive pre-reqs.

[CSFurious]

i would love to take more people along on the dq, but the flagging holds back a lot of people, i.e., not everybody gets to play for 4 to 6 hours per day every day

dq has some of the best raid loot of the game, but the flagging is a pain for many

Not every three days, but sometimes.

Casual players are hurt far more by flagging prereqs than the hardcore.

[ArkoHighStar]

If the reason to take these requirements out is because they have been run to death and are boring to do, wouldn't that also mean that the raid has been run to death? Of course, but there is still loot to be had, new toons, and what not. So basically, people want these removed because they just want a raid loot run every three days?

At least, that's what I hear. And considering that Turbine goes out of it's way to take things like that out of the game, I can't see it happening. After all, how long is the DQ raid? Or the Dragon?

You can run von1-4 easy now. I've done just that, got a group together, ran the 4, and then raided the dragon. All in about 3 hours or less. It's not hard, it's not boring, and often I have new people in the raid, that get to learn the quest, because we explain things to new people. Everyone gets to keep the loot they pull if they want it. Last time, we pulled 5 pieces of raid loot.

Sure the quests for the DQ are not as quick as the Von's. However considering how easy the dragon and queen are, even on elite, I can't see them taking out something that might slow people down.

If all you are really after is a quick raid loot run every 3 days, I don't expect Turbine to be that quick in giving players that.

The problem is Dane, many guilds like to raid and not all players have the time to reflag every day. My guild can do 5 raids in one night if we are so inclined, and chances are it will be the reaver and the titan. Any time we do the dragon we invariably come up short and have to stop and run players through the von's speed style, while the other half of the group is clearing von 5. We would much rather have a full group ready to go into von 5 all at once. The DQ is even worse as a few of us have the time to spend out there, and we get lucky if one of the regluars is out doing the run, and we can hitch a ride, but I rarely have more than 1 char ready to do that raid if at all, so many of us miss it. If we did not have to do von 1-4 and the 3 dq quests and could go right to the pre raid we would be doing them more often, and people would be interested longer.

If you are not a heavy raider this logic would look like we are just trying to get more loot, and the short answer is yes to a certain degree, but the long answer is also that the raids can be fun, and to do the von's and DQ, you have to run through hoops to have that fun. Many have done these quests ad nauseum, and they have lost their luster because instead of being seen as fun they are now seen as the obstacle

[MysticTheurge]

And secondly, I don't think people would ultimately object to having to run Against the Demon Queen each time. That would make both of those quests longer than the Reaver, and about on par with the titan.

Ideally, I'd like to see AtDQ get a few upgrades and be converted to a Raid instance and then I wouldn't mind running it each time.

Having 6-person prereqs you have to do each time you want to do a 12-person raid is problematic.

[Oreg]

Ideally, I'd like to see AtDQ get a few upgrades and be converted to a Raid instance and then I wouldn't mind running it each time.

Having 6-person prereqs you have to do each time you want to do a 12-person raid is problematic.

Good Idea. Beef it up and make it a 12 man while eliminating the (repeating) pre reqs to it.

[bobbryan2]

Ideally, I'd like to see AtDQ get a few upgrades and be converted to a Raid instance and then I wouldn't mind running it each time.

Having 6-person prereqs you have to do each time you want to do a 12-person raid is problematic.

I wouldn't be 'against' this... but I also wouldn't really want it. Ideally... I think the DQ should just be ran by itself.. or... they should add a raid style quest right before it. Not a 12 person raid in the bottom of the desert that everyone has to run out to. It's hard enough getting some 6 man groups to AtDQ, and I can't imagine the headaches involved in getting 12 people there.

I would argue that length isn't a necessary component to having a repeatable raid. The stormreaver takes all of 10 minutes, and it has immediate access.

The other reason I wouldn't be completely for it is simply because that's the equivalent of creating a raid from scratch. And if they're going to be creating a raid from scratch... I would hope it would be a completely different raid, and not a raid we've been doing for a year now.

Small changes I would totally dig... like adding red dragon scales to the Velah chest, or simply having them be one-time flags. But massive quest upheavals? I don't think it's needed.

It just depends on how much they want people running the DQ. I think people would run it as often as Stormreaver if there was no AtDQ req. If they added the AtDQ req... it would be run a lot less. It's just kinda how they would want it run.