Eliminate Raid Prerequisites for DQ and VON

[Grimmlock]

I agree with you that the RAIDS are supposed to take more than 15 minutes. Its all about the pre req's needing to be run over and over. They need to change this at some point. How many times have anybody been in a VON run and have had somebody or a couple of people drop? It happens all the time (lvl 8-10 that is, most capped guys can finish without). The OP as I and many others are not looking for sympathy, we would just like a change to the 2 Raids that have mandatory pre req's. I would rather have a change to this then have the dev's work on adding a new UI system.

[juniorpfactors]

they probably made the tor Raid to easy to redo....should have made you redo the preraid each time - not the dragons once character is flagged..once you killed the giant skelly a ports opens for flagged characters and sends you to the raid....

jrp dq1 is to much for me(time sink that is)

[bobbryan2]

jrp dq1 is to much for me(time sink that is)

Wouldn't be horrible if you didn't have to run to it.

[CSFurious]

why should a raid take 2 hours to flag for?

flagging for velah & dq is bad for everyone, i.e., the leets & the casual

why should'nt i be able to log on & run dq in 60 to 90 minutes (includes forming raid group & doing pre-raid on normal)? that is friendly

having to run 3 quests over & over again & adding another 60 to 90 minutes or more to the time is not friendly

being friendly creates happy players, being unfriendly starts to equal cancelled subscriptions

at no point did i say i do not run the reaver. My point is that its a raid, raids are supposed to take time. As in any other MMO, no raid is 15 minutes.

If you noticed that my response was towards someone who says they have to get their guildies ready which means he has to run the pre-reqs 3-4 times for every raid. this is not a "good" reason to change DQ and VON.

Since you feel the need to respond to me with your "oh we have too many capped toons excuse". Then I will respond. I have no sympathy for you. If a player feels the need to run all of their cap'd toons every 3 days through all 5 raids, be my guest, its gonna take time, so suck it up and do it. Just because you are off timer, doesn't mean you have to raid.

I mean, what else would you be doing instead of prep??? running pop till your eyes bleed? roll up that 8th toon, so you can add more raiding to your already to busy schedule?

[juniorpfactors]

Wouldn't be horrible if you didn't have to run to it.

let me rephrase...its the 3 prereqs to get to dq 1 are a time sink ..once a toon have them all on elite....there should be no more flagging to get to dq1 readyness....dq1 is all we should have to do to get to dq2 raid....that would help DDO a lot

[Riggs]

Not every three days, but sometimes.

Casual players are hurt far more by flagging prereqs than the hardcore.

I love VoN5-6, but I'm pretty much done with reflagging for them at this point.
I like the DQ preraid/raid, but have almost never run it due to the required reflagging of either myself or my guildies that had to be done. There's always SOMEONE who needs it and really wants to come (or is really needed).

1-2 hours after we decide that a DQ raid would be cool, many have generally realized they have to log. Sure, many of us are flagged for that elusive "next time", but that almost never quickly.

Yeah 'casual' players that can only play a couple hours at a time (many people have kids/families...jobs....) flagging, then a preraid, then a raid...usually takes longer than many people have.

If you play 8 hours a day and have run stuff 200 times then you will be doing it in half the time anyway, and 2-3 hours for a full flag/raid isnt much. If your more casual, have only run them a half dozen times and still dont know it super well, its going to take twice as long, and unless you get a guild/group going the minute you log in, but by the time its raid time people have to leave. Because not everyone is willing to get 4 hours sleep before going to work just because they are in a raid.

And as before - having to 'prove yourself' to an NPC by running level 8 quests on your level 14 character for the umteenth time is just silly. If its story plots...well tell you what, I'll write my own one next time, and keep the bleeping +5 flame burst adamantine vorpal greataxe - and to heck with the NPC wanting it back. He is going to forget who I am soon as I leave the quest anyway.

Back to the point - casual players still play a fair bit, just not hardcore. But hey - their 15 bucks a month costs just as much as everyone elses 15 bucks a month. if people WANT to run the vons on their level 14s every 3 days, and chains/wiz king/blood - go nuts. No one is stopping you if you enjoy it. Or hey - change the reaver so that you need 60 relics everytime, and have to run the preraid, and kill all 3 dragons - every time. That would be fun too eh?

Oh wait - it wouldnt.

[rockcrown]

i do not totally appose some of the suggestions here about only repeating von5/6 or dq1/2. The only reason I am taking the other side of the argument is I am reading examples about having too many characters or my guildies won't get raid ready if I don't help them. Those to me are not good reasons to convince the devs to change it.

Looking at simple things like. parties breaking up before von1-4 is done.. Or multiple people not advancing correctly thru the quests. This frustation I can understand.. Shoot even players i've known for 2 years still mess up from time to time.

The idea is to give good constructive feedback that makes sense to the devs so you can convince them that this would be a good change.

My appologizes if my previous comments ruffled any feathers.

[Cireeric]

Isn't the reward of a successful raid, based on the completion of a chain of quests. With TS being the exception of this.

Too much loot out there. Would this have happened if all the raids had pre-reqs? Yes to an extent.

I have no problem with them deciding not to change the requirements. I do not see why they changed their format. Why does the Titan and the Reaver not require the reflagging that the VoN's and DQ do.

I know if they would implement requirements on all raids, the doomsayers would be out in full force. Probably rightfully so since that would be a major change in the way we play.

I just believe that forgoing the flagging process after the first time was a mistake.

As it is now, those raids are run with no reference to the 'STORY' that lead up to them.

Along the lines with the op, why should a character keep running waterworks to get into the market(with paying). Shouldn't it be once you have one character on elite, then all characters on the account should be allowed into the market free.

[BillBob]

Well my 'gut' reaction is that there is now (or becoming) enough raids in the game that a player with 2 capped characters can constantly (well at a more leisurely pace people! ) have raid options that provide enough of a time sink without having to run pre-reqs. Well, maaaybe, if/when the abbot becomes completable and the new raid area arrives. If the loot remains comparable, i think that there will be enough raid/preraids to keep things reasonably fresh for most players on any given evening.

So yeah i vote to get rid of the pre-reqs and possibly subsitute a tougher boss fight at the end of von 5 and the DQ 6 man to compensate...hmm

[lostinjapan]

I agree, we shouldn't have to redo them over and over and over and over...ad nauseam.

However, I'd even be willing to settle for the stupid NPC to arrange transport after you've completed the quest on that character...it takes as long to run TO Chains of Flame as it does to complete the quest once in.

[Hafeal]

Along the lines with the op, why should a character keep running waterworks to get into the market(with paying). Shouldn't it be once you have one character on elite, then all characters on the account should be allowed into the market free.

I don't think so. From the "role-play" perspective, each character must undergo their own experiences and you can't equate one character's quests with another. Just like you don't have a common bank account for all your characters.

I agree with the position that once you have run a character through all the favor difficulties of (e.g., vons 1-4 x3) you should not be required to run them anymore for that character. That is still not "great" in my book for casual players (especially if you have multiple characters) but it is a huge improvement over what we have now.

[MysticTheurge]

Isn't the reward of a successful raid, based on the completion of a chain of quests. With TS being the exception of this.

There are currently fewer "Chain" raids than there are raids without chain prereqs.

Along the lines with the op, why should a character keep running waterworks to get into the market(with paying). Shouldn't it be once you have one character on elite, then all characters on the account should be allowed into the market free.

You might have a valid comparison if you had to do waterworks every single time you wanted to go from the harbor to the marketplace.

But instead, you do it once (per character) and then you have access all the time. That is, in fact, exactly what's being asked for here.

[Wheelz]

/signed

Von 5-6 Raid as is without repeatng pre-req's
DQ1 should be part of DQ2 (and 12 person raid also)

Both with timers of course!

[tekn0mage]

I am glad to see all is moving along here in the thread. Sorry I've been absent the past few days. Had other real life priorities (for a change) that took me away. Did I miss anything?

Other than /signed Which I think 90% of us here agree to?

Good work everyone. I have a feeling we may have bumped the priority of this issue just by remaining civil

[GlassCannon]

/signed

Von 5-6 Raid as is without repeatng pre-req's
DQ1 should be part of DQ2 (and 12 person raid also)

Both with timers of course!

Timers!? O.o
That would stress the newbies out too much. Less stress = more gaming enjoyment. Let's have a 'no' on the timers eh...

[Hafeal]

Despite the seeming interest on the forums at least for this change Ms. Paiz said on DDOcast that there is no plans to retro-actively change these quests.

Here's to dreaming ...

[muffinlad]

Despite the seeming interest on the forums at least for this change Ms. Paiz said on DDOcast that there is no plans to retro-actively change these quests.

Here's to dreaming ...

I have to say...this was one of the things that disapointed me about the DDOcast. Let me clairify-

A) I appreciate that we get honest answers.
B) I enjoy the fact that the Dev's show up to do these events.
C) Every (or nearly so) question posed to the team has been stated on the forum and requested by players in the past.
D) For the first several (7+) questions or so, what we heard was "No, we are not going to do that". Now, in fairness, we were told that newer raids would not include this kind of requirement, but that there are no plans to go back and re-engineer Von and Dq. However the reason given was a very suspect "Because it is a live quest and different people are on different parts of it" (and that is me paraphrasing it).

I was in fact, disapointed NOT because of the answers (well...a little....), but because we heard those answers for the very first time on DDOcast, and not in the forums.

I will get over it, naturally, but most of the questions asked are things that the Dev's/Producers should be responding to here, with reasoning, faster.

Now, off to play.

Regs,

muffinlistener

[MysticTheurge]

However the reason given was a very suspect "Because it is a live quest and different people are on different parts of it" (and that is me paraphrasing it).

It's actually a fairly valid justification/problem if you ask me.

Changing the flagging system for a live raid definitely has the potential to really screw a bunch of people up. There are a whole lot of permutations of possibilities that would make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to test them all and make sure you weren't breaking someone's character. (I think you could probably get around it, by, say, setting everyone back to 0 for the new flagging mechanism; I think there would be very few people who would mind another run through the VoNs if it meant they'd never have to do another after that.)

I was in fact, disapointed NOT because of the answers (well...a little....), but because we heard those answers for the very first time on DDOcast, and not in the forums.

This seems to be a common complaint, any time the devs talk about anything anywhere other than the forums, and I have to admit that I just don't get it.

Jerry at DDOcast does an amazing thing for this game. The podcast is great for the community, it's a bit of extra advertising, and it's a lot of work. I've seen what goes into making a podcast and it's not easy, even if all you're doing is recording yourself talk for 30-45 minutes, but Jerry doesn't even do that. He gets interviews and has other people host segments. That's got to be a ton of work, and personally, I'm really happy to see Turbine acknowledge that with "exclusives." DDOcast is a part of the greater DDO community, and there's absolutely no reason they shouldn't be answering questions there (even ones they haven't answered anywhere else). It's good for the devs to support an effort like DDOcast.

[Hendrik]

Jerry at DDOcast does an amazing thing for this game. The podcast is great for the community, it's a bit of extra advertising, and it's a lot of work. I've seen what goes into making a podcast and it's not easy, even if all you're doing is recording yourself talk for 30-45 minutes, but Jerry doesn't even do that. He gets interviews and has other people host segments. That's got to be a ton of work, and personally, I'm really happy to see Turbine acknowledge that with "exclusives." DDOcast is a part of the greater DDO community, and there's absolutely no reason they shouldn't be answering questions there (even ones they haven't answered anywhere else). It's good for the devs to support an effort like DDOcast.

People fail to realize this time and again. Jerry DESERVES the props from the Community and Turbine for his outstanding work he does for the game and us. This is not some two-bit show that he throws together at the last minute and puts out for all us to listen to and enjoy. He puts forth a great deal of personal time and effort into this for something he enjoys - DDO. Turbine talking with DDOCast is a direct acknowledgment of his outstanding dedication to DDO and it's community.

I don't see anyone else stepping up to the plate and doing what Jerry does - nor anything near it.

Not only is it good for the DEV's and Turbine to support what Jerry does, it is our best interest to support Jerry and DDOCast at every opportunity.

[Hvymetal]

People fail to realize this time and again. Jerry DESERVES the props from the Community and Turbine for his outstanding work he does for the game and us. This is not some two-bit show that he throws together at the last minute and puts out for all us to listen to and enjoy. He puts forth a great deal of personal time and effort into this for something he enjoys - DDO. Turbine talking with DDOCast is a direct acknowledgment of his outstanding dedication to DDO and it's community.

I don't see anyone else stepping up to the plate and doing what Jerry does - nor anything near it.

Not only is it good for the DEV's and Turbine to support what Jerry does, it is our best interest to support Jerry and DDOCast at every opportunity.

QFT & well said