Eliminate Raid Prerequisites for DQ and VON

[tekn0mage]

So, Turbine, when are we going to do something about the Demon Queen and the VON series?

Haven't we ran VON1-4 enough? And the three (or four) pre-quests for DQ are just killing our time in game. Can we get a word on whether this is something we can take a look at? Right now, the Reaver is just overcooked to death. It's time we get some answers on what you guys plan on doing.

The DQ and the VON series are great raids, but the time spent flagging every week is just making it to where they will without a doubt fall off the map (if they haven't already).

[EMDEN]

So, Turbine, when are we going to do something about the Demon Queen and the VON series?

Haven't we ran VON1-4 enough? And the three (or four) pre-quests for DQ are just killing our time in game. Can we get a word on whether this is something we can take a look at? Right now, the Reaver is just overcooked to death. It's time we get some answers on what you guys plan on doing.

The DQ and the VON series are great raids, but the time spent flagging every week is just making it to where they will without a doubt fall off the map (if they haven't already).

I dont agree, keep them. It adds flavor to the game and for those raids..... Yes, it is a pain, but adds flavor.

[Drider]

I dont agree, keep them. It adds flavor to the game and for those raids..... Yes, it is a pain, but adds flavor.

I don't agree with Tekno too often, but I pretty much only run titan and reaver now, because I am sick of doing the vons and desert stuff.

[MysticTheurge]

Odd as it may seem, I agree with Tek.

You should have to run the VoN/DQ prerequisites a certain number of times (once, five times, ten, I don't really care) and then you should only have to run VoN5/6 and Zawabi's Revenge.

[Raithe]

I don't agree with Tekno too often, but I pretty much only run titan and reaver now, because I am sick of doing the vons and desert stuff.

The Titan raid and preraid are extremely boring to me. Not many quests could be more convoluted, uninteresting, and silly. The VoNs are actually interesting (except for VoN 2), and VoN 5 is one of the best, most balanced quests in the game. VoN 6 is what I would label the "worst quest in the game." On elite its so pathetic its humorous. I would also rather run Wizard King, Chains of Flame, or Offering of Blood than I would the preraid or the raid.

The flagging quests are simply more fun. This suggestion is obviously about loot, and gearing new alts up so they can be as uber as previous characters.

My advice: don't worry about it. If it's not fun, who cares about the gear. Module 6 and the future crafting mechanics will make most of the loot obsolete anyway.

[MysticTheurge]

The flagging quests are simply more fun.

Well no one's going to make you stop doing quests you like.

[bobbryan2]

They add nothing but frustration

[bobbryan2]

My advice: don't worry about it. If it's not fun, who cares about the gear. Module 6 and the future crafting mechanics will make most of the loot obsolete anyway.

That's pure supposition. You might be right, but you have no idea what mod 6 crafting entails. If you can't put FOM on boots... then they sure won't make delving boots obsolete. And I'd like to see the ritual that makes a greatsword with the DPS of a SoS.

I have this sneaking suspicion that Dragon loot won't be obsolete for a while. They didn't quite balance those items... half are completely and utterly worthless, some are nice, and some are just unbalanced.

[Mhykke]

/signed


Make VoNs and Chains/WizKing/Offering fun again. If people weren't forced to run those quests, when they did run them, they'd enjoy them.

I know that the first 4 VoNs I used to really enjoy, till I've ran them into the ground. If I only went to them whenever I wanted XP/something different, they'd still be very fun.

Please eliminate these prereqs.

[Deriaz]

I wouldn't mind taking out the pre-reqs being needed, but the only problem I see is for new players trying to get a group for those.

I mean, you take out all pre-reqs, and once everybody's done them. . . How would a new player PuG them? Join a guild, I suppose, but what if none will take them?

Rare example, I know, but it's still an example.

I also don't like the idea that, once everyone flags for them, the effort that the developers did on those quests just kind of goes down the drain. Yes, you can run them again if you want, but when everyone's flagged. . . Is anyone going to want to? Example: Shrieking Mines. When a friend needs to do that, I have a hard time trying to help him find more people that want to go through that again.

Just my opinion, though. I guess I wouldn't be against them being set like the Titan and Reaver.

-D

[Raithe]

Well no one's going to make you stop doing quests you like.

I don't really care if this suggestion is implemented, and I have no real interest in redoing the flagging quests on any of my characters. I've been playing since release, and had my fill. My opinion is more about the following:

1) I doubt it will be implemented.

2) I'd prefer if people would list their actual concerns than make it seem like they aren't bored of the raids as well. If the developers think that "everyone loves raids," they'll build more of the horrible un-D&D-like beasts.

[Mhykke]

I wouldn't mind taking out the pre-reqs being needed, but the only problem I see is for new players trying to get a group for those.

I mean, you take out all pre-reqs, and once everybody's done them. . . How would a new player PuG them? Join a guild, I suppose, but what if none will take them?

Rare example, I know, but it's still an example.

I also don't like the idea that, once everyone flags for them, the effort that the developers did on those quests just kind of goes down the drain. Yes, you can run them again if you want, but when everyone's flagged. . . Is anyone going to want to? Example: Shrieking Mines. When a friend needs to do that, I have a hard time trying to help him find more people that want to go through that again.

Just my opinion, though. I guess I wouldn't be against them being set like the Titan and Reaver.

-D

People would still run them. I still run madstone/crucible/pop every once in a while, b/c it's something to do. I still do ghola/shrieking for xp when I need it, b/c they haven't been beaten into my skull.

I think developers' efforts on VoNs is more wasted now, in that when most have to rerun, they hate the tedium. VoNs, for example, give good xp for the lvls, people would still run them. The difference is they'd enjoy running them b/c they haven't had to every 3 days for the past number of weeks.

[tekn0mage]

The difference is they'd enjoy running them b/c they haven't had to every 3 days for the past number of weeks.

Or years, for me.

[Racolus]

Meh, this is something the devs never ever aware of since the implementation of 20th run thingy.

Velah: 20x von 1-4= 80 repitition of quests

DQ: 20 x 3 = 60 repitition of quests

Both not included the 'pre-raid' itself.

I have read someone vent about getting nothing desirable on 60th Dragon run. Dude, that is 240 times he repeated, yea, he has the right to vent.

As a matter of fact, grinding is inevitable in most MMO, but grinding this way is waaaay off.

Perhaps, just perhaps, players should only need to redo the quests every 20th raid, matching the special end reward, making the grinding more reasonable and acceptable.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the redoing should be removed like Reaver, that is the point of 'getting flagged' like other MMO.

[tekn0mage]

or multiply that by the 180+ raids I have done on my characters... we're talking 300-500 quests REPEATED over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ...

you get the idea?

[Ringos]

I wouldn't mind taking out the pre-reqs being needed, but the only problem I see is for new players trying to get a group for those.

I mean, you take out all pre-reqs, and once everybody's done them. . . How would a new player PuG them? Join a guild, I suppose, but what if none will take them?

Rare example, I know, but it's still an example.

I also don't like the idea that, once everyone flags for them, the effort that the developers did on those quests just kind of goes down the drain. Yes, you can run them again if you want, but when everyone's flagged. . . Is anyone going to want to? Example: Shrieking Mines. When a friend needs to do that, I have a hard time trying to help him find more people that want to go through that again.

Just my opinion, though. I guess I wouldn't be against them being set like the Titan and Reaver.

-D

Good point. Pre-Gianthold, I know a lot of folks would run Vons 1-4 as soon as they could after the raid to get flagged. It didn't seem like much of an issue filling a group as a lot of people were ready to jump in a group at a moments notice. Now, some of the Velah raids (when you see the LFM up) sit for a long time before filling...if they ever do. I was going to jump in one the other night and had nobody dragon ready. I actually could have run 1-4 on normal TWICE in the time that they had that LFM up (wish I would have known). I can imagine how hard it is for 'newer' people to get enough folks to run it. That has to be pretty frustrating for a first-time dragon raider.

[mgoldb2]

I wouldn't mind taking out the pre-reqs being needed, but the only problem I see is for new players trying to get a group for those.

Most players that ran the vons 100's of times will speed run it which I don’t blame them I do the same but I don’t see this being fun for new players. Might be a good thing to get new players or people that not ran it a ton to run vons together rather then there first experience with people that don’t really want to be running it and just want to get it over with so they can do dragon.

I would like to see some way added to not have to redo vons over and over and over again also.

[tekn0mage]

The problem is... we've had threads pop up time and time again and YET AGAIN, we've had absolutely ZERO interaction with Turbine on it. It would be nice if issues like this would take some priority.

It's extremely frustrating and unnecessary to see an issue this vital not get addressed.

[Racolus]

Well I have 5 capped toon, applying the calculation on each toon cause me to faint, no kidding.

The point is, this mechanism which intended to make ppl play more becomes making ppl feel tiresome of those quests. I'll keep logging in to see if there is any raid avaliable, but not repeating the quests over and over again. Yea, 'normal speed run for the item' actually kills the quest itself.

Someone will say 'no one ask you to zerg', however, IMHO, I'll push the zerg button after 3rd or 4th run, not touching any button at all after 10 run or so.

[studentx]

I've a mixed opinion here. I think you need von 1-4, for the the backstory of what is going on in von 5-6. Keep the dragon the way it is. However for offering, chamber of raiyum, and chains of the flames are indirectly related to the story of the Demon Queen. I could see permanent flagging for the three prequests and only having to repeat AtDQ before moving on to Z's revenge. (From a story perspective your conversation with the Djinn and the information gleaned from AtDQ on Lailat is more than enough for a complete story line resolving in Zawabii's Revenge.)

(Although from my own self-interested point of view it would be nice to permanently flag these two raids, as I don't have time to prereq all my toons every three days.)