The Mod-6 Holy Avenger

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Alright Fans, it's time for the Mod-6 Update on the Holy Avenger Build (Originally by Grenfell).


Previous versions of the Holy Avenger:
The Post Mod-3 Holy Avenger (by Grenfell)
The Post Mod-4 Holy Avenger
The Post Mod-5 Holy Avenger


I am posting this in advance of Mod 6, but with the WDA coming together, I think it is fairly safe to assume that we have the entire list now.

I am still a bit torn over the “Best” starting stats on this build. Post Mod-4 the build ended up with 28/20/20/8/16/26 for final stats. While Post Mod-5, I went with a more all-around score set of 28/20/20/10/20/22 (with the ability to put on a +6 INT item for VON3 runes). I like both sets of stats, and am really torn between them. Unfortunately the idea that 20 WIS was enough for the VON 5 Runes was proven wrong (which was part of the idea behind the Mod-5 version). So, given that information, and the Force of Personality feat, I think the updated Mod-6 Version will be a balance in-between. I am also tweaking things to go to 10 base INT, so that if you are lucky enough to get a +3 INT tome, then Combat Expertise becomes an option.


So, let me state that the "Basic Human Evasion Paladin" in my Build Guide is still the "default" Holy Avenger template.. but I will offer this as an updated Post-Mod 6 Holy Avenger, to extend the Holy Avenger's abilities to do just a little bit of everything.

NOTE: I am now including the Least and Lesser Dragonmark of Passage as a part of this build. This is from my personal playtesting and play-preference. If you do not want to go the Dragonmark Route, I would suggest Weapon Focus: Slashing, and either Power Critical, Stunning Blow, Mental Toughness, or whatever feat makes it your "personal" fit.

NOTE #2: Yes, this build is set for 6 +6 Stat Items and 5 +1 Tomes... I know that is a steep requirement, but it can still be built without that. If you do not have access to these items, keep the basic build the same, and remember that a +5 Stat Item and no Tome will still end with a Even Stat Mod. Then if you find +6 Items and Tomes, then all the better!

----------------------------------


The Holy Avenger
Level 16 Human
Lawful Good
11 Paladin / 2 Rogue / 3 Fighter

Stats:
----------------------
STR: 17 + 4 (Levels) + 2 (1750 Tome) + 1 (Fighter’s Str 1) + 6 (Item) = 30 (+10)
DEX: 13 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 20 (+5)
CON: 12 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Human Adapt 1) + 6 (Item) = 20 (+5)
INT: 12 + 1 (Tome) = 13 (+1)
WIS: 8 + 1 (Tome) + 4 (Item) = 13 (+1)
CHA: 14 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Human Adapt 2) + 2 (Paladin Cha 2) + 6 (Item) = 24 (+7)
----------------------

Level Progression:
----------------------
L1-L7 - Paladin
L8-L9 - Rogue
L10-L13 - Paladin
L14-L16 Fighter
----------------------

Feats: (Dragonmarked Version)
----------------------
1) Exotic Weapon: Kopesh
1) Least Dragonmark of Passage
3) Skill Focus: UMD
6) Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
9) Improved Critical: Slashing
12) Toughness
14F) Dodge
15) Combat Expertise
15F) Weapon Focus: Slashing
----------------------


Skill Points:
----------------------
Level 1-7 - Max UMD, Jump. After INT Tome is used, put remaining point in Balance
Level 8-9 - Max UMD. +1 Tumble, Rest in Jump, a splash in Balance
Level 10-16 - Max UMD. Any remaining points into Jump or Balance
----------------------


Hit Points:
----------------------
20 - Heroic Durability
110 - Paladin 11
30 - Fighter 3
12 - Rogue 2
80 - Con Bonus
18 - Toughness
18 - Minos Legens
50 - Paladin Toughness 4
10 - Draconic Vitality
30 - Greater False Life
----------------------
378 Hit Points


Saves:
----------------------
7 / 3 / 3 – Paladin 11 Base
0 / 3 / 0 – Rogue 2 Base
3 / 1 / 1 – Fighter 3 Base
5 / 5 / 1 – Stat Mods
7 / 7 / 7 – Divine Grace
1 / 1 / 1 – Paladin Aura
3 / 3 / 3 – Resistance of Good 3
5 / 5 / 5 – Kardin’s Eye/Boots of the Innocent/+5 Resistance Item
----------------------
26 / 23 / 16 – Standing Saves
30 / 27 / 20 – w/ Greater Heroism


To-Hit:
----------------------
15 - BAB
10 - STR
5 - +5 Weapon
4 - Greater Heroism
1 - Haste
1 - Rage Potion
3 - Divine Favor
1 - Weapon Focus: Slashing
----------------------
+40 To-Hit
----------------------


Damage:
----------------------
10 - STR
5 - +5 Weapon
1 - Rage Potion
3 - Divine Favor
----------------------
+19 Damage


UMD:
----------------------
19 - Ranks
3 - Skill Focus: UMD
7 - Charisma
4 - Greater Heroism
3 - Golden Cartouche
----------------------
36 UMD – Auto Success on Raise Dead. Heal on a 4 or Better.
----------------------
2 - Seven-Fingered Gloves
----------------------
38 UMD - Heal Scroll on a 2.
----------------------
6 - Raid-Crafted Item with +6 Charisma Skills
----------------------
44 UMD - Automatic Success on Resurrection Scrolls!



AC:
----------------------
10 - Base
10 - +5 Mithral Breastplate
5 - Dexterity
9 - +5 Mithral Tower Shield
5 – Protection +5 Item
2 - Ring of Balance
2 - Chaosguarde
1 - Paladin Aura
3 - Bulwark of Good 2
----------------------
48 AC Standing & Unbuffed
----------------------
4 - +4 AC (Insight Bonus) Crafted Weapon
5 - Defensive Fighting
----------------------
57 AC - BEHOLDER PROOF!
----------------------
3 - Ranger's Barkskin
2 - Recitation
1 - Haste Potion
----------------------
63 AC Buffed & Stanced
----------------------
3 - Chattering Ring
----------------------
66 AC Buffed, Stanced, with Raid Loot
----------------------

[Averroes]

I am still a bit torn over the “Best” starting stats on this build. Post Mod-4 the build ended up with 28/20/20/8/16/26 for final stats. While Post Mod-5, I went with a more all-around score set of 28/20/20/10/20/22 (with the ability to put on a +6 INT item for VON3 runes). I like both sets of stats, and am really torn between them. Unfortunately the idea that 20 WIS was enough for the VON 5 Runes was proven wrong (which was part of the idea behind the Mod-5 version). So, given that information, and the Force of Personality feat, I think the updated Mod-6 Version will be a balance in-between. I am also tweaking things to go to 10 base INT, so that if you are lucky enough to get a +3 INT tome, then Combat Expertise becomes an option.

Huh?

The int runes in von3 require 14 int, not 16. So says my drow pally and his potion of fox's cunning. Or my barbarian and his reaver napkin, for that matter.
The wisdom runes in von5 require 20 wisdom. I'm not sure how that could have been proven wrong -- I run it at least weekly with a character with precisely 20 wisdom, who was built in large part to be able to do everything in that quest.


I do like 10 int on the build though -- I hate having no ranks in jump on my current pally.

And otherwise, looks good as always. Thanks for posting it.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Hrmmm... I'll have to test that out next time I re-queue.

I though the VON 3 Runes were 16 for some reason... can anyone else verify if they are 14 or 16


And as for the VON 5 WIS Runes, I could have sworn we ran with a PuG a few months ago who had exactly 20 WIS and he couldn't open it... Can anyone else verify that the VON 5 WIS Rune is 20 to open? If that is the case, then a quick modification will be in order.

------------------

However, I still like the 10 starting INT option, as it does allow for CE, with a +3 Tome. I recently got a +3 INT Tome out of the Stormreaver for my Holy Avenger, but mine is an older build, with only 8 INT. And the extra Skill Points to keep Jump up would be nice (after you take your Rogue Levels).

Huh?

The int runes in von3 require 14 int, not 16. So says my drow pally and his potion of fox's cunning. Or my barbarian and his reaver napkin, for that matter.
The wisdom runes in von5 require 20 wisdom. I'm not sure how that could have been proven wrong -- I run it at least weekly with a character with precisely 20 wisdom, who was built in large part to be able to do everything in that quest.


I do like 10 int on the build though -- I hate having no ranks in jump on my current pally.

And otherwise, looks good as always. Thanks for posting it.

[Vizzini]

How are you getting 19 Ranks in UMD without taking Rog First level and maxing your UMD skill at the beginning of the build.. I just don't see the 19 ranks at level 16, maybe I'm just mathematically challenged.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

With 10 Intelligence, a Human is granted 3 Skill Points/Level for Fighter & Paladin Levels, and 9 Skill Points/Level for the 2 Rogue Levels.

So Level 1 puts 2 ranks (4 points). Level 2-7 puts .5 Rank/Level * 6 Levels = 3 Ranks == 5 Ranks Total @ Level 7
Then at Level 8, you take Rogue, and get 9 skill points. So you dump 6 points into UMD, this maxing it at 11 Ranks. You dump the other 3 points into Jump or Balance (or some other skill you want).
At Level 9, also Rogue, you put 1 point into UMD, so it is maxed at 12, then the other 8 points into Jump and/or Balance.
Then, from Level 10-16, you put 2 points (1 Rank) into UMD each level, keeping it maxed. That makes 19 Ranks at Level 16.

How are you getting 19 Ranks in UMD without taking Rog First level and maxing your UMD skill at the beginning of the build.. I just don't see the 19 ranks at level 16, maybe I'm just mathematically challenged.

[Slayer918]

How are you getting 19 Ranks in UMD without taking Rog First level and maxing your UMD skill at the beginning of the build.. I just don't see the 19 ranks at level 16, maybe I'm just mathematically challenged.

well at level 8 (his first rogue level) he will have 5 ranks in UMD/Jump/Balance, he will get 9 points 6 go to max UMD then 3 to bring jump up to 8 ranks

At level 9 he gets 9 points as well, of which 1 goes into UMD, 4 into jump, 4 into balance, and 1 into Tumble (giving him 12 in UMD, 12 Jump, 9 Balance)

at level 10-13 he gets 3 skill points with paladin class skills which he is putting 2 to keep UMD maxed then 1 into either jump or balance at .5 points (a total of 2 points between the 2 in those 4 levels)

14-16 he gets 3 skill points with fighter class skills which he is putting 2 into UMD, and then probably the other point into jump for a full rank each time

Thats how I read it anyways

[Dexxaan]

I'm pretty sure VON 3 Rune on Elite is 16 INT.

And definitely positive VON5 WIS rune is 20. Maybe higher on Elite...but cannot say for sure.

[Mhykke]

Can't remember elite, but VoN 3 runes normal are 14 int.

VoN 5 runes are 20 wis.

[Averroes]

I'm pretty sure VON 3 Rune on Elite is 16 INT.

And definitely positive VON5 WIS rune is 20. Maybe higher on Elite...but cannot say for sure.

Runes don't change for normal/hard/elite.

And I'll get screenies if you really want -- I'm not 99% sure of these, I'm 100% sure. Otherwise my 8-int characters would have a much harder time soloing von3.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Anyone know what the WIS requirement i for the WIS Runes in Xorian Cipher then?

[citman96]

Why do you take the feat for the exotic weapon: Kopesh and not exotic weapon: Bastard Sword? The base damage is better on the Bastard Sword and there seems to be more available by way of options (what the sword will do). Just a basic question.

Thanks

[Vinos]

Why do you take the feat for the exotic weapon: Kopesh and not exotic weapon: Bastard Sword? The base damage is better on the Bastard Sword and there seems to be more available by way of options (what the sword will do). Just a basic question.

Thanks

Khopesh > Bastard sword DPS wise. But you're right in that better bast swords are easier to come by.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Why do you take the feat for the exotic weapon: Kopesh and not exotic weapon: Bastard Sword? The base damage is better on the Bastard Sword and there seems to be more available by way of options (what the sword will do). Just a basic question.

Thanks

Bastard Sword: 1d10 19-20/x2
Khopesh: 1d8 19-20/x3

Yes, Bastard Sword has a better base damage, but the x3 Crit Multiplier with the same Crit Range makes for MUCH better DPS.

But it is also true that Bastard Swords are a lot more plentiful on the AH, as Khopeshes are in demand, because they have the best one-handed DPS potential in the game. Stack a Khopesh up against any other one-handed weapon (not counting and Enhancements), and Khopesh comes out on top. Once you add Racial Enhancements, then Elves with Longswords or Dwarves with Dwarven Axes, etc will be close or equal (and in a few rare cases, they will just surpass the DPS of a Khopesh)... but without Enhancements, Khopesh is the best one-handed DPS Weapon in the game.

[Desteria]

Bastard Sword: 1d10 19-20/x2
Khopesh: 1d8 19-20/x3

Yes, Bastard Sword has a better base damage, but the x3 Crit Multiplier with the same Crit Range makes for MUCH better DPS.

But it is also true that Bastard Swords are a lot more plentiful on the AH, as Khopeshes are in demand, because they have the best one-handed DPS potential in the game. Stack a Khopesh up against any other one-handed weapon (not counting and Enhancements), and Khopesh comes out on top. Once you add Racial Enhancements, then Elves with Longswords or Dwarves with Dwarven Axes, etc will be close or equal (and in a few rare cases, they will just surpass the DPS of a Khopesh)... but without Enhancements, Khopesh is the best one-handed DPS Weapon in the game.

Minor addition I keep considering fiting in IC pirce on my pally becasue the Death Nip ROCKS the kopesh in 1 hand DPS, though it is a little harder to come buy now.

Death nip 1d6 base? 19-20/x4 With seeker 8 built in so better then and no need for a slot spent on blood stone.

I'd still probably keep kopeshes/ic slash for stuff with VERY high DR, as death nip doesent by pass any thign but spider dr

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I actually have done some revisions to the Mod-6 Holy Avenger which I should be posting up next week... a bit of a re-work with some changes for what Mod 6 really plays like, as well as a little more future-proofing. It also looks like I will be dropping Cleave/Great Cleave from the build and picking up Force of Personality & Weapon Focus: Slashing (or Dodge).

I have done some revamping on my original Holy Avenger and can now get him over 50 AC (Beholder-Proof!)... and with Barkskin Pots and Haste Pots up to 53-54 AC on his own (yes, I do have some uber loot for him which helps)... but look for an update next week, including 2 different build options. 1 with Dragonmark (similar to the existing build, but with some tweaks and feat changes), and one without the Dragonmark, and a higher base INT to pickup Combat Expertise, for a Holy Avenger who can hit 55 AC all on his own, and cross 60 with a little help from his friends (and that is WITHOUT a Chattering Ring, btw!)

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Ok, I have done some tinkering with the build, and tweaked the starting stats and feats a bit... and added a couple of new Crafted Items into the mix (+4 Insight Bonus Weapon & +6 CHA Skills Item)... to see what I can come up with, and I have managed a Holy Avenger with a Beholder-Proof 57 AC!!!

Yes, this will sacrifice the 20 WIS for the VON 5 Runes.. but who runs the dragon anymore?

[DME543]

Dworkin,
Did you leave this out of your calculations for AC?

Plus, should I be able to save in a wall of fire with evasion? I have a 9/2 Pally with 21 reflex and I get toasted in the desert when the arcanes cast wall of fire. I do have +5 Mithral BP.
Thanks

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Dworkin,
Did you leave this out of your calculations for AC?

Plus, should I be able to save in a wall of fire with evasion? I have a 9/2 Pally with 21 reflex and I get toasted in the desert when the arcanes cast wall of fire. I do have +5 Mithral BP.
Thanks

1) Yes, I forgot Dodge in the AC Calculations... This is because, at the time, I was advocating Cleave & Great Cleave as the Fighter Bonus Feats... Now I am more convinced that Dodge and either Weapon Focus or IC: Pierce/Bludgeon or some other combat feat are better choices.


2) I was incorrect on Wall of Fire. There is not a reflex save on it, however, I am usually wearing Greater Fire Resistance Item or have the buff running, which means I basically never take damage from it, so I thought, incorrectly, that there was a Reflex Save.


3) One other "tidbit" thought... on your Rogue Levels, consider dropping 1 Rank into Open Lock (again, I'd take it from Spot). Consider this:

1 (Rank) + 5 (Dex) + 4 (GH) + 7 (+5 Tools) + 13 (Item) = 30 Open Lock.

30 Open Lock, that can also be boosted by HV Boost or Rogue Boost 1... but that is sufficient to open most Doors & Chests in the game... yes, you may have to roll a few times to hit a good D20 roll, but I know, personally, that this can work for PotP, VON 5, Temple of Vol, Trial by Fire, and others.... not too bad for 1 Skill Point! Yes, there are some that you have to roll a 19+ on, or just plain can't manage, but it can help out immensely in many situations where uber-Open Lock is not needed.... just something to think about!


4) And from some PM discussion I have been having, I think the "better" allotment of Skill Ranks for the build is:
19 - Jump
19 - UMD
5 - Balance
16 - Spot
1 - Open Lock

Or something like that.
The Spot Ranks + INT Modifier + Spot Item (like the Goggles from Tor with Spot +13, Wisdom +2, and Automatic Detect Secret Doors) should be enough to Spot most mobs and get a "Spider Sense" on most traps as well.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Just a note about Green Steel Items for the Holy Avenger:

After doing a lot of work on the Crafting Information, and giving it some thought, I think there are a few Green Steel Items that most Holy Avengers will want to go for.

#1) Green Steel Khopesh:
EDM // +DM // (E/+) DM
Acid, Good Burst, +4 Insight AC Bonus, Mineral 1 (Stoneskin 2/day), Mineral 2 (Transmuting, Keen, Slicing, Enhanced Durability and Hardness)
I think that this would be "the" weapon to use for 95% of the mobs in the game. With this weapon, you really only need it, and then your Power 5 (Vorpal, Banisher, Smiter, Disruptor, Paralyzer), and a few specialty Weapons, like Greater Construct Bane and the like.

#2) Green Steel Goggles:
-EE // +EE // (+/-)EE
Wizardry VI, +150 SP, +5 Cha Skills, +1 Int Skills, +10 Haggle, +10 Diplomacy, +6 Wisdom, Concordant Opposition

#3) Green Steel Helm:
+EM // EEM // (+/E)EM
+45 HP, +6 Con Skills
Mineral 1 (Stoneskin 2/day)
Mineral 2 (Protection +5, Heavy Fortification)

After that, the only other Green Steel Item that seems of interest might be a -OM // -OM // -OM for Disease, Fear, Poison, Blindness Immunity & Deathblock... but the Disease and Fear Immunity are redundant (you are a Paladin after all), and the Poison and Blindness are nice, but not really needed... and same with Deathblock... your saves are so high anyways, there doesn't seem to be much need... plus item space becomes a real issue.


But, in the "perfect world" of any item you want, I would suggest the following loadout:

Weapon: Green Steel Khopesh [EDM // +DM // (E/+) DM] - Acid, Good Burst, +4 AC, Transmuting, Keen, Slicing, Stoneskin 2/day
Shield: +5 Heavy Steel Shield / +5 Mithral Tower Shield
Armor: +5 Blueshine Mithral Breastplate
Goggles: Sandstorm Goggles (Marilith Loot: True Seeing, Blindness Immunity)
Helm: Green Steel Helm: [+EM // EEM // (+/E)EM] - +45 HP, +6 Con Skills, Protection +5, Heavy Fortification
Necklace: Green Steel Necklace [-EE // +EE // (+/-)EE] - Wizardry VI, +150 SP, +5 Cha Skills, +1 Int Skills, +10 Haggle, +10 Diplomacy, +6 Wisdom, Concordant Opposition
Cloak: Charisma +6
Belt: Belt of Brute Strength (Titan Loot: Strength +6, Greater False Life)
Gloves: Dexterity +6 / Seven-Fingered Gloves (Titan Loot: +5 UMD, +11 Open Lock, +11 Disable Device, -10% Arcane Spell Failure)
Boots: Boots of the Innocent (Striding +15%, Resistance +5)
Bracers: Chaosguarde (Dodge AC +2)
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune (Good Luck +2, Moderate Fortification)
Ring: Chattering Ring (Dodge AC +3, +13 Spot, -10 Move Silently)
Ring:


Strangely enough, I can't figure out what to put on the Necklace or the 2nd Ring at this point (maybe Seal of the Earth? or a Torc for the Necklace???) I dunno... or maybe take Sandstorm Goggles, then craft the Goggles I listed as your Necklace... I mean, there are

[DME543]

Dworkin,
Is there a reason why you don't post this feat? I have a bloodstone and would think it would be a great addition for crits? Thoughts...pros, cons?
Thanks

I have all the feats listed except the lesser dragon mark of passage.

I rerolled Dokken as a 32pt build and am about to hit 12th level.