The Mod-6 Holy Avenger

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I am working on a version of this build and I am starting to question going fighter levels. I don't dig the dragonmarks of passage(with my rogue skills I can teleport in town or just use my house P pendant and I carry casters around to haste me in combat ) and I am wondering if losing +1 str and 2 combat feats is worth extra/more powerful LoH and 4th level spells.

I guess it is a personal choice. I don't see the point in going for the L4 Spells, as Holy Sword is ok, but space intensive. Death Ward would be nice... but I don't think that is worth losing 2x Bonus Feats, STR +1, FSTM 1, and the longer-term potential of STR +2, FAM/FTSM 2, 4 Bonus Feats, and the like.

But it surely is a playstyle/preference thing. I can see going 14P / 2R with the build... but I think you sacrifice the DPS Side of things. Holy Avenger is an Offensive-DPS Paladin, with Evasion and UMD for Utility. That is the focus of the build... and that's why I think Fighter is the way to go... but YMMV, so make changes as you want!

Dworkin

[DragonKiller]

I have to ask this question... Does Mod six let you stack items that you're wearing? I'm trying to figure out how 1 character could all at the same time be wearing:

5 + 6 Stat items (Or 6 as your note says)
Minos Legens
Greater False Life Item
Kardin’s Eye/Boots of the Innocent/+5 Resistance Item
Protection +5 Item
Ring of Balance
Chaosguarde
Chattering Ring

Sorry, but I can't figure out how to get all that loot on at the same time.

[Jondallar]

I have to ask this question... Does Mod six let you stack items that you're wearing? I'm trying to figure out how 1 character could all at the same time be wearing:

5 + 6 Stat items (Or 6 as your note says)
Minos Legens
Greater False Life Item
Kardin’s Eye/Boots of the Innocent/+5 Resistance Item
Protection +5 Item
Ring of Balance
Chaosguarde
Chattering Ring

Sorry, but I can't figure out how to get all that loot on at the same time.

you cant wear them all, the easiest to drop is the ring of balance since it can be replaced by pots. And I dont kno what I would do if I got a chattering ring because I dont have the space for it... I would probably lose my greater false life ring because the extra 3 ac would put me to the 53+ Ac area where i could afford to lose some hp because I would see a sharp decline in being hit at that AC.

My current set up on my halfling holy avenger pal 10 rog2 fight2 is:
Kardins/mummified bat
Minos legens / +6 wisdom helm (to get to 20 wisdom for von5 rune)
+5 prot necklace/golden cartouche
chaosgarde
+6 strength gloves
+6 dex boots/striding 25% boots/ff boots jump
+6 con ring
greaterfalselife ring/seal of earth
daggertooth belt
mentau goggles
+6 cha cloak

this gives me max ac with a few quick swap items for certain situations. 316/286 hp 46/49 ac unbuffed (47/50 with +5 khopesh of parrying) 29/29/23 saves unbuffed, 28 str (halfling) 16 con 24 dex 10 int 14 wisdom 22 cha. I also have a slightly lower ac scenario that removes the daggertoothbelt and allows me to run with my ff or striding boots on and my kardins eye on at the same time while maintaining the highest melee damage and to hit/hp possible for my character.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I have to ask this question... Does Mod six let you stack items that you're wearing? I'm trying to figure out how 1 character could all at the same time be wearing:

5 + 6 Stat items (Or 6 as your note says)
Minos Legens
Greater False Life Item
Kardin’s Eye/Boots of the Innocent/+5 Resistance Item
Protection +5 Item
Ring of Balance
Chaosguarde
Chattering Ring

Sorry, but I can't figure out how to get all that loot on at the same time.

Item slots is always a problem, and I am showing max stats on things. You won't be able to wear all of the items all at the same time, but you can switch as needed.

Personally, I don't wear a Resistance Item, as my saves are good enough as is, and I am still wearing Spectacular Optics. I also do not wear my Wisdom Necklace full time, as I can cast Divine Favor and Virtue without it, so I only put it on when I need to cast a Resist or a Heal. I was wearing my Golden Cartouche full-time, but as I finally got Seven-Fingered Gloves this weekend, I'm trying to figure out how to re-balance everything.

I have chosen to NOT focus on Max Possible AC on my Holy Avenger, so my loadout is as follows:

Armor: +5 Lesser Lightning Guard Mithral Breasplate of Lesser Lightning Resistance
Shield: +5 Heavy Mithral Shield / +5 Mithral Tower Shield
Goggles: Spectacular Optics / Intricate Field Optics / Visor of the Flesh Render Guards / Kundarak Warding Goggles
Helm: Minos Legens / Haggle +13 Helm
Necklace: Wisdom / Underwater Action
Trinket: Pearl of Power / Pendant of Time
Cloak: Charisma / Greater Fire Resistance / Greater Lightning Resistance
Belt: Constitution / Planar Gird
Gloves: Dexterity / Seven Fingered Gloves
Boots: +25% Striders / Feather Falling / Switchblade Boots (Bluff +10)
Bracers: Chaosguarde
Ring: Strength
Ring: Greater False Life / Ring of the Ancestors

At this point I am seriously considering dropping my Chaosguardes if I can put Dex on my Bracers, or move Dex to the Ring and Strength to the Bracers, and wear the 7-Fingered Gloves Full Time.

[Desteria]

Bastard Sword: 1d10 19-20/x2
Khopesh: 1d8 19-20/x3

Yes, Bastard Sword has a better base damage, but the x3 Crit Multiplier with the same Crit Range makes for MUCH better DPS.

But it is also true that Bastard Swords are a lot more plentiful on the AH, as Khopeshes are in demand, because they have the best one-handed DPS potential in the game. Stack a Khopesh up against any other one-handed weapon (not counting and Enhancements), and Khopesh comes out on top. Once you add Racial Enhancements, then Elves with Longswords or Dwarves with Dwarven Axes, etc will be close or equal (and in a few rare cases, they will just surpass the DPS of a Khopesh)... but without Enhancements, Khopesh is the best one-handed DPS Weapon in the game.

Minor addition I keep considering fiting in IC pirce on my pally becasue the Death Nip ROCKS the kopesh in 1 hand DPS, though it is a little harder to come buy now.

Death nip 1d6 base? 19-20/x4 With seeker 8 built in so better then and no need for a slot spent on blood stone.

I'd still probably keep kopeshes/ic slash for stuff with VERY high DR, as death nip doesent by pass any thign but spider dr

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I actually have done some revisions to the Mod-6 Holy Avenger which I should be posting up next week... a bit of a re-work with some changes for what Mod 6 really plays like, as well as a little more future-proofing. It also looks like I will be dropping Cleave/Great Cleave from the build and picking up Force of Personality & Weapon Focus: Slashing (or Dodge).

I have done some revamping on my original Holy Avenger and can now get him over 50 AC (Beholder-Proof!)... and with Barkskin Pots and Haste Pots up to 53-54 AC on his own (yes, I do have some uber loot for him which helps)... but look for an update next week, including 2 different build options. 1 with Dragonmark (similar to the existing build, but with some tweaks and feat changes), and one without the Dragonmark, and a higher base INT to pickup Combat Expertise, for a Holy Avenger who can hit 55 AC all on his own, and cross 60 with a little help from his friends (and that is WITHOUT a Chattering Ring, btw!)

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Ok, I have done some tinkering with the build, and tweaked the starting stats and feats a bit... and added a couple of new Crafted Items into the mix (+4 Insight Bonus Weapon & +6 CHA Skills Item)... to see what I can come up with, and I have managed a Holy Avenger with a Beholder-Proof 57 AC!!!

Yes, this will sacrifice the 20 WIS for the VON 5 Runes.. but who runs the dragon anymore?

[Hvymetal]

Ok, I have done some tinkering with the build, and tweaked the starting stats and feats a bit... and added a couple of new Crafted Items into the mix (+4 Insight Bonus Weapon & +6 CHA Skills Item)... to see what I can come up with, and I have managed a Holy Avenger with a Beholder-Proof 57 AC!!!

Yes, this will sacrifice the 20 WIS for the VON 5 Runes.. but who runs the dragon anymore?

So going to try and scrape up 8 AP somehow?

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I seriously doubt it.
Even on my Holy Avenger, I *JUST* took BoG & RoG 3 with the cap raise to 16. There are too many other good things to spend the AP's on. As it is, I would like to have another 12-20 AP's to get all the things I really want on my Holy Avenger (I dropped Human Versatility in order to pickup BoG/RoG 3... but I am considering dropping RoG 3 to get at least a few levels of HV back).


But as for 8 AP's for +1 AC... No. 6AP's was hard enough to swallow. I guess if you were a Pure Paladin, you wouldn't have much else to spend your AP's on... but for a MC Paladin, there are always better things.

[Redcoil]

Even for fully pally, you can find something better...

[Hvymetal]

Even for fully pally, you can find something better...

QFT

[Mhykke]

I don't care if I had every other enhancement. I don't think I'd spent 8 more APs for 1 AC just on principle....

[Illuminati]

Defensive fighting is +2 AC / -4 AB correct?

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Defensive fighting is +2 AC / -4 AB correct?

Yes, +2 AC / -4 To-Hit

[DME543]

Are the "new" high DC saves for traps and "higer level" mob spellcasters even worth taking evasion anymore? What other benifits does it give?
Thanks

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Are the "new" high DC saves for traps and "higer level" mob spellcasters even worth taking evasion anymore? What other benifits does it give?
Thanks

Absolutely, Evasion is still worth it! Even with the uber-high DC Saves, a well-built Evasion Paladin should be around 25-35 Reflex Save, depending on build, gear, and buffs... and that isn't much different from many of the pure trap-monkey Rogues. Ok, on Elite, you can't go charging through the Traps anymore... Ok, not a big deal... but on Normal and Hard you still can!

And as for what other benefits? Well, it gives near immunity to most all damage spells from enemy casters! I was running the Shroud the other day, part 4.. and got hit with 3 of those Delayed Blast Fireballs from the big guy... and not a scratch! That alone is worth taking Evasion! Seriously, paired with a good Reflex Save, Evasion makes you nearly immune to Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Wall of Fire, Blade Barrier, and a myriad of other DD Spells and Traps... even still on Elite (maybe not The Vale Elite.. but that's fine).

I don't have any problems with Enemy Spellcasters, even on Elite in the Vale.

[Redcoil]

Evasion works on Wall of Fire, huh? Impressive. :-)
Your Evasion > My Evasion

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Unless I am mistaken, Wall of Fire's damage is a Reflex Save to avoid. Reflex Save means Evasion can avoid.

I know I have stood in Enemy's Wall of Fire before and not taken any damage (even seeing the "Burning" Icon up top), and seen save rolls against it.

I might be crazy, but I'm pretty sure about that one.

[wiglin]

Wall of Fire does not have a save.

[Riekan]

I stand in Wall of Fires all the time with my ranger and don't take any damage.