Weekly Dev Activities 1/21/08

[Ustice]

In the current form we could, but I don't think you'd like the results it wouldn't be pretty. Already feed backing on that ^^

Basically the code to access the the spell components if they are in a nested container does not exist. So, basically they COULD allow us to put them in a bag pretty easy, but once inside we couldn't use them for casting spells.

[MysticTheurge]

Basically the code to access the the spell components if they are in a nested container does not exist. So, basically they COULD allow us to put them in a bag pretty easy, but once inside we couldn't use them for casting spells.

Yeah, that's what it sounded like to me too.

[ArkoHighStar]

You know, it wouldn't be hard for the "ingredient bag" to also hold spell components. It just baffles me why simple things like this are not in the game after 2 years.

the problem it seems from Tolero's comment is that they cannot be used while in the bag, meaning you could put them in there, but they would not be usable until you put them into the main backpack. My guess is the subsystem that deducts arrows and ingredients upon use has not been modified to look into sub bags. However once this is done I would imagine that quivers for arrows would be a snap as well.

[DrAwkward]

Ok, I'm about to agree with Tekno so assuming the world doesn't come to a crashing end... make the stupid ingredient bags hold spell componants please (or get us a seperate bag..whichever is easier).

Considering we arent' even supposed to have spell componants except for expensive ingrediants wasting 8-10 inventory slots on them is moronic.

Just adding them to the bag is easy. Making the spells be able to find them there is another story.
Probably the same reason we haven't seen quivers; Containers are currently just set up for out-of-combat items. Having them hold potions, spell components, or ammo is not a trivial amount of work.

[MysticTheurge]

My guess is the subsystem that deducts arrows and ingredients upon use has not been modified to look into sub bags. However once this is done I would imagine that quivers for arrows would be a snap as well.

Well arrows technically come out of the Equipped Ammo slot.

As long as you could still hotkey arrow stacks that are in bags and equip them that way, I think it wouldn't matter if they auto-equipped out of bags.

[ArkoHighStar]

Yes, they should.... if they want to lose out on their full attack sequence. If you want to hit at +20, move (lose 3 more attacks), then hit again at +20, you should be able to do so. It is mathematically in your favor to NOT do so, though.

My bigger concern is the fact that Monks, at 20th with Flurry of Blows, should get 3 attacks out of five that are their best, while a 20th level Fighter would only get one. The new progression means that a Fighter's 4th and 5th attacks are both their best attacks, and not just their last one.

Look at it this way: The 5 attack sequence is deviating from pen and paper as follows: +0, +5, +15, +25, +30 (bonus attack pen and paper doesn't get). Apply this deviation to the 20th level Monk Flurry progression and you get a DDO progression of +0, +5, +15, +20 +15. Do you think Monk will be implemented in this manner? I don't. If Monk Flurry is implemented as +0, +0, +5, +10, +10, their increase is nerfed when compared to Monk's in pen and paper. Monk Flurry at level 20 should be something better than a level 20 Fighter's attack sequence, not the same. So it should probably be +0, +5, +10, +15, +20.

Recap:
Pen and paper level 20 Fighter attack sequence from BAB: +0, -5, -10, -15 (4 attacks)
Pen and paper level 20 Monk flurry sequence from BAB: +0, +0, +0, -5, -10 (5 attacks)

DDO attack sequence for 5 attacks (not Monks): +0, +0, +5, +10, +10 (5 attacks)
DDO attack sequence for 5 attacks (Monk), unknown and questionably nerfed.

yes but this is not turn based combat, my opponent is not sitting there waiting for me to finish my 5 attacks before swinging at me, so if attack progression started higher and went lower there would be no incentive whatsoever to not move between swings.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Basically the code to access the the spell components if they are in a nested container does not exist. So, basically they COULD allow us to put them in a bag pretty easy, but once inside we couldn't use them for casting spells.

If that's the problem, I don't really see a longterm problem. Collectors pull collectables directly from your bag. And the new Sell Gems button will sell directly from your bag. So, Devs are at least halfway there.

[ArkoHighStar]

Well arrows technically come out of the Equipped Ammo slot.

As long as you could still hotkey arrow stacks that are in bags and equip them that way, I think it wouldn't matter if they auto-equipped out of bags.

yes but they reload out of the main bag when you get to zero

[MysticTheurge]

yes but this is not turn based combat, my opponent is not sitting there waiting for me to finish my 5 attacks before swinging at me, so if attack progression started higher and went lower there would be no incentive whatsoever to not move between swings.

Yep, the real problem is that we're in real time.

In D&D you get an attack every six seconds (i.e. one round) and as your BAB goes up you get more swings with each (full) attack action. You have the option of making one swing at your full BAB in this six seconds or making up to 4 swings at a decreasing attack bonus also during this six seconds.

In DDO, you don't have to wait between attack actions, and swinging once takes less time than swinging 4+ times. So, if the attack bonus went down, no one would ever take their full attack since you could attack faster at a higher bonus by only making single attacks.

[ArkoHighStar]

If that's the problem, I don't really see a longterm problem. Collectors pull collectables directly from your bag. And the new Sell Gems button will sell directly from your bag. So, Devs are at least halfway there.

I imagine a different system is used in combat than at the vendor, one that is looking at ingredients and ammunition specifically to cut down on searches. I am sure it is doable, it just needs to get done, having the bags was the first hurdle, now it is simply getting items out in the right order etc.

[MysticTheurge]

yes but they reload out of the main bag when you get to zero

Right, but I guess I'm saying:

I'd be ok with it not "finding" the arrows in my quivers when I got to zero, if I was able to manually reload by clicking a button on my hotbar.

[Kerr]

[*]Horrid Wilting

• Necromancy
• Level: Sor/Wiz 8
• Deals 1d6 per caster level (max 20d6) damage to living targets by evaporating moisture from their bodies. Deals 1d8 per caster level (max 20d8) damage to water subtype outsiders and plants.

Anyone actually see a Water Elemental or 'outsider' or plant mob yet?

[DaveyCrockett]

Right, but I guess I'm saying:

I'd be ok with it not "finding" the arrows in my quivers when I got to zero, if I was able to manually reload by clicking a button on my hotbar.

I wouldn't. I don't want arrows on my hotbars. Too many things there as it stands now.

[FunnyCide]

Hello all,

I have to apologize. I misread a release note, and now you're all excited about it.

There will be no spell component bags this time around, just eldritch ingredient bags.

I apologize profusely. Let the lashings begin.
-Quarion

Awww....I was so looking forward to that bag! How do I break the news to my poor over burdened characters? =(

[MysticTheurge]

I wouldn't. I don't want arrows on my hotbars. Too many things there as it stands now.

Sorry. I guess I should've been clearer.

I wouldn't mind it for now. If that's all that's keeping quivers out of the game, I'd be ok with adding them now with manual reloads and then getting them updated to auto-reload later.

[Luthen]

Hello all,

I have to apologize. I misread a release note, and now you're all excited about it.

There will be no spell component bags this time around, just eldritch ingredient bags.

I apologize profusely. Let the lashings begin.
-Quarion

I didn't wake up this morning wanting to be a jack@$$. But that doesn't mean I'm not ready to be. -Bill Engvall

Seriously though. If you could answer a question about bags. Straight and to the point is the best way to go if possible. Why is the Dev team not prepaired to release the two most requested bags (Ammunition and Spell Componants) for Mod 6? I'm sure we'll want or need these new bags we're getting and that's fine. Would it really, seriously, have been so difficult to adjust some minor coding to change gem or collectable bags into ammunition and spell componant bags? There is NO downside to creating them. I know you will probably put them in eventually but for something so minor I just can't fathom why it wasn't done for Mod 6.

[MysticTheurge]

Would it really, seriously, have been so difficult to adjust some minor coding to change gem or collectable bags into ammunition and spell componant bags?

See above speculation for the most likely reason.

It's not hard to get stuff to go into bags. It's hard to get the code that accesses those items to look in bags for them.

[BurnerD]

I didn't wake up this morning wanting to be a jack@$$. But that doesn't mean I'm not ready to be. -Bill Engvall

Seriously though. If you could answer a question about bags. Straight and to the point is the best way to go if possible. Why is the Dev team not prepaired to release the two most requested bags (Ammunition and Spell Componants) for Mod 6? I'm sure we'll want or need these new bags we're getting and that's fine. Would it really, seriously, have been so difficult to adjust some minor coding to change gem or collectable bags into ammunition and spell componant bags? There is NO downside to creating them. I know you will probably put them in eventually but for something so minor I just can't fathom why it wasn't done for Mod 6.

Here's another question... Why can't collectables and gems go directly into bags? ooo ooo and another... Why don't desert tokens and outsider tokens go into bags... aren't they collectible? or am I just bugged... enquiring minds want to know

[ArkoHighStar]

Right, but I guess I'm saying:

I'd be ok with it not "finding" the arrows in my quivers when I got to zero, if I was able to manually reload by clicking a button on my hotbar.

I think the whole problem with quivers is going to come down to the fact that there are so many different types of ammunition that can be held in it, and how does it know which order to pull it out in.

Spell ingredients are easy as each spell has a specific ingredient so it will always grab the right one regardless of order.

Do you only allow arrows and bolts, or do you include throwing knives, shuriken, throwing axes and throwing hammers as well.


Quivers have to have their own little ruleset attached to them, unless you take the following approach, make them like gem bags, and if you want to use them move them to your main bag. It owuld allow you to keep many more arrows, but you would have to manage them manually

[MysticTheurge]

I think the whole problem with quivers is going to come down to the fact that there are so many different types of ammunition that can be held in it, and how does it know which order to pull it out in.

Presumably, in order (top to bottom) just like they come out of your inventory that way (left to right, top to bottom, first bag to last bag).

Of course that probably means you would want the ability to be able to sort things in your quiver.