Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[ChildrenofBodom]

Ummmm... No. Do you even play a caster? The Torc isn't bad, but I have a battlecaster who is often in the thick of things and I only see it trigger about three times in a quest for 20-30 mana each time.

Where did he say the torc was bad...? He said it was one of the best items in the raid....

Not sure how you got "bad" out of that.

[Shade]

As for the Greenblade and the Staff, they are both flat out BAD.

Comon, I appreciate the arguement but thats a bit of a careless statement.

Because yes I do play melee and casters (sorc and barbarian specificly) and have almost all of the raid loots mentioned, so yea I kinda do know what im talking about.

Greenblade grants greater arcane lore. That makes my disintegrate do more damage, to me that is more then enough to make it an awesome item. I do not yet have the blue robe, as I prefer the black robe for its +2 evocation (yea i know disintegrate is transmutation, but more often then not im mixing in evocation spells while nuking with it anyways) and refuse to farm for months to get a skiver.

So to casters who a) didnt exploit black mausoleum back in the day, its an excellent raid item - and thats most casters. Vs what, the chaosblade? I know maybe 1 melee who likes that, out of hundreds - a good item for some is not an overall good melee raid loot due to its exotic and alignment restrictions.

The staff I never thought was that awesome either - but I just got it the other day and found out its better then most people think: few great uses:
Ray of enfeeblement - The staff versions is actaully stronger then the casted version! So if your gona debuff some mobs, its a great item, save your SP and deal more str dmg (1d6 +7 vs 1d6 +5) and since theres no save it will work just as well in most cases.
Orb of Invulnerability - Fast cast, again better then the spell version. Generaly limited use but can help allot in certain cases.
Bonus fireballs/cone of cold, etc.. Nothing great, but fun to use. Saves some sp where you need those spells but dont need them to deal much dmg (Inferno of the damned comes to mind)

Powerdrain Gloves - You say they don't do allot, yet I'd bet you do not even have them or have a good idea how they work so I can't accept any arguement on that. I have them and know that they can actually give more SP then the shroud item.

[MysticTheurge]

It would have been nice to at least have one tier 3 bonus effect from dual shards on a weapon for casters. I dont consider % on hit enervation or non stacking 20% concealment as making the cut.

Some would say hard to please, but I think most people here would consider 1 special effect for casters available on weapons as not being a very selfish request.

You can get Concordant Opposition on a weapon.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Comon, I appreciate the arguement but thats a bit of a careless statement.

Because yes I do play melee and casters (sorc and barbarian specificly) and have almost all of the raid loots mentioned, so yea I kinda do know what im talking about.

Greenblade grants greater arcane lore. That makes my disintegrate do more damage, to me that is more then enough to make it an awesome item. I do not yet have the blue robe, as I prefer the black robe for its +2 evocation (yea i know disintegrate is transmutation, but more often then not im mixing in evocation spells while nuking with it anyways) and refuse to farm for months to get a skiver.

So to casters who a) didnt exploit black mausoleum back in the day, its an excellent raid item - and thats most casters. Vs what, the chaosblade? I know maybe 1 melee who likes that, out of hundreds - a good item for some is not an overall good melee raid loot due to its exotic and alignment restrictions.

The Greenblade gives an extra 9% chance to crit -- a potency item will grant far more damage, not in one burst, but over time. So I suppose the Greenblade is alright if you don't have a good potency weapon, but Superior Potency VI and even VII are no more difficult to get than a Greenblade. As far as the Chaosblade goes, the exotic restriction is not a big deal; most fighters have proficiency in Khopesh because they tend to do more damage. Many fighters can UMD the true chaos if they aren't chaotic (which many barbarians are). Even so the item is very nice against lawful creatures (like devils): +5 khopesh with 3d6 extra damage, but most importantly the lesser vampiricism is very nice. I have a friend with a strength based ranger that loves to dual-wield them--he gets about 6+ hp per second. Anyhow, that said, I do see your point--the Khopesh is not something that everyone can use. But my point is that the Greenblade is a second-rate item in most cases--the khopesh is generally more powerful.

The staff I never thought was that awesome either - but I just got it the other day and found out its better then most people think: few great uses:
Ray of enfeeblement - The staff versions is actaully stronger then the casted version! So if your gona debuff some mobs, its a great item, save your SP and deal more str dmg (1d6 +7 vs 1d6 +5) and since theres no save it will work just as well in most cases.
Orb of Invulnerability - Fast cast, again better then the spell version. Generaly limited use but can help allot in certain cases.
Bonus fireballs/cone of cold, etc.. Nothing great, but fun to use. Saves some sp where you need those spells but dont need them to deal much dmg (Inferno of the damned comes to mind)

Ray of Enfeeblement can be stopped by SR. So the only place it's really useful is for portals so they get hit by crit effects all the time. When I say the items are bad, I don't mean they are useless. I mean that their uses are so specific or so marginal that they really can't be compared with other raid loot. Yes the Orb of Invulnerability is fast-cast and most casters don't carry it. But there is a good reason that casters don't carry it... I can't think of a single specific place where it would be useful. The only situation it might be nice for is if there is a caster somewhere that you are having trouble killing and only casts spells level 4 and below and is hurting your party. I don't know of where that could happen unless you were trying to get it to occur. I have 2 Staffs of Arcane Power, and the only thing I ever use them for is the torches in Inferno. They are somewhat convenient in there, but again... the uses of the item are so specific that it really can't be compared to other decent raid loot.

Powerdrain Gloves - You say they don't do allot, yet I'd bet you do not even have them or have a good idea how they work so I can't accept any arguement on that. I have them and know that they can actually give more SP then the shroud item.

They regenerate SP for about a minute. They give 2d6 sp every tick (10 ticks at 1 every 6 seconds). With three charges of the ability, you get 3.5*2*10*3=210 spell points on average. So yes, they certainly are not bad, kind of like a better spell storing ring. But a shroud item will certainly give you more spell points: 200 guaranteed, another 50 if you are using just a magi item, and *2 if you are a sorceror for a total of 400 or 500 extra spellpoints beyond another item as a sorceror. Even the maximum you can get from the Power Drain ability is lower: 6*2*10*3=360 spell points (the chances of that are 1 in 48,873,677,980,689,257,489,322,752,273,774,603,865 ,660,850,176. If you are that lucky, go play in the lottery my friend!). I will confess that saying they "don't do a whole lot" was an exaggeration (I hadn't actually run the numbers). They are in fact quite decent, but the point remains--Raid Loot has never been overbalanced towards casters above melees.

Anyhow, I don't mean to sound arrogant or patronizing in any way, just completely disagree with saying that melees have been shafted in the past and "deserve more good loot than the casters for a change." In any case, this probably isn't particularly relevant to the topic of the thread, so I'll try not to hijack it any more.

Master Kadish

[Venar]

The loot i so-so?
Are you kidding me???
My ranger buddy just made Goggles of Wiz 6, poison immunity, fear immunity, haggle 10, wisdom 6. And that is just after TWO upgrades. He also ran the reaver over 60 times and nothing he got in 60 runs even come close to beeing that usefull.

As for caster getting the shaft... Guys, WIZ 6 on any item at tier ONE? Melee win tier 3, but casters win tier 1 easy.

[MysticTheurge]

The Greenblade gives an extra 9% chance to crit -- a potency item will grant far more damage, not in one burst, but over time. So I suppose the Greenblade is alright if you don't have a good potency weapon, but Superior Potency VI and even VII are no more difficult to get than a Greenblade.

You act as though they're mutually exclusive.

[Auran82]

The Greenblade gives an extra 9% chance to crit -- a potency item will grant far more damage, not in one burst, but over time. So I suppose the Greenblade is alright if you don't have a good potency weapon, but Superior Potency VI and even VII are no more difficult to get than a Greenblade.

My caster has 2 hands, what about yours?

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

You act as though they're mutually exclusive.

My caster has 2 hands, what about yours?

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive, and of course my caster has two hands. But I like to have a Shroud weapon in one of them to increase my DC's by 2 (helping damage spells also). And although it's certainly possible to switch weapon sets every time you cast a different type of spell, it's a real pain and I don't know of hardly anyone that is willing to do so, especially since it takes a decent bit of time if you don't have the quick draw feat. Each to his own though -- I personally never use the Greenblade I've got on my caster, since I don't find it does a whole lot for the amount of trouble it'd take to utilize without hindering other aspects of his effectiveness.

[Angelus_dead]

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive, and of course my caster has two hands. But I like to have a Shroud weapon in one of them to increase my DC's by 2 (helping damage spells also).

It is unfair, and silly, to complain about year-old raid loot because it takes a body slot better given to something that came out last month. Of course newer, higher level loot is usually better. That has no bearing on the question of whether the items given by a particular raid had a melee or caster bias when it was released.

PS. I hate contributing to a digression on this thread, and wish the Crafting forum was used more for these things.

[Spisey]

It is unfair, and silly, to complain about year-old raid loot because it takes a body slot better given to something that came out last month. Of course newer, higher level loot is usually better. That has no bearing on the question of whether the items given by a particular raid had a melee or caster bias when it was released.

PS. I hate contributing to a digression on this thread, and wish the Crafting forum was used more for these things.

Thank you! The dragon eye was a hot commodity at one time. No one even had potency type items yet for their new spells. Now we are tweaked beyond belief with the help of one or two raid items and collectible turn-ins..... Twas a much different world.


Not to mention the lack of AH to both make plat and try to desperately get the items that seem insufficient now. These items in the raid, regardless of personally focused needs / requirements, are very good at taking over several item spots that you now have full and could have a better use for if you had the room. All in all the 3rd tier non-singular bonuses may not be worth 24 ingredients, power shards and crystals but the devs finally experimented with a crafting system to work with and improve upon. Good enough for me. Now if they would just increase the drop rate for large ingredients and I would be getting somewhere....

[Soul-Shaker]

Steam II weapon info upgraded tested 1000 hits. Look at my item post for info.

[Shade]

.I like to have a Shroud weapon in one of them to increase my DC's by 2.... ..snip ... personally never use the Greenblade I've got on my caster, since I don't find it does a whole lot for the amount of trouble it'd take to utilize without hindering other aspects of his effectiveness.

Your opinions are all fine and good. But the arguement was about the bigger picture.
The bigger pictures shows that I know 2 fighters in my entire server that own and like the chaosblade - 1 has specificly built the character to ouse it. 2 of thousands i have grouped with. 0 barbarians, 0 rangers, 0 anything else. A GOOD overall melee raid weapon is one that MOST melee want to use, not some - ie the sword of shadow. Not anything else (well now greensteel weapons - which is good, we were getting tired of seeing every melee have the same sword)
The bigger picture shows that most casters do infact dual wield potentcy + lore item, not the expensive greensteel +2/3 for 1 DC - regardless the comparison was of previous mods loot, so including the current mods item doesn't make allot of sense.
The bigger pictures shows that most casters do indeed already have wizardry 6 so the shroud version doesn't matter in any real comparison. So power drain = 210 on average vs 150 MAX sp increase for wizard, or 300 for sorcerer.. A larger increase and infact better since its regens fast, has potential for more and save you from the rare occasion where you may find yourself drained of spellpoints (arcane ooze, dread wraith)

Thats what im looking at, not personally what I have and use and what I like, but what overall I see players using and like in terms of raidloot trends.

And we would have a very hard time hijacking a thread that has gotten offtopic so many times as this 3000 + post one has heh.

[Tallyn]

1000 swing test. average comes to 20%= 1/5 hits. Also has nothing linked to crits if ppl have that question.

so 2d8+8 = 17 dmg average every 5 hits = 3.4 which is worse then elemental mastery and if lightning strike average is about 1/60-80 swings (so between 1-2%) then lightning strike averages to about 7-9 dmg per hit.

I would not go for this on a weapon unless they upgrade its chance per hit.

The one thing it does have in it's favor is that it is untyped damage, and thus nothing can resist it. That's about all I can give it.

[Venar]

The bigger picture shows that most casters do infact dual wield potentcy + lore item (... ...)

The bigger pictures shows that most casters do indeed already have wizardry 6 so the shroud version doesn't matter in any real comparison.

Biased assumptions is why no one can agree.
You use most as if you knew undeniable truths.
Most caster i know dual wield potency + Spell Penetration. Not everyone farm random raid loot, or has a belt of Seven.

Most casters i know did not, in fact, have a WIZ 6 item yet before the shroud. That's why we still see so many black dragon armors (wiz 5). Also, does who did usually had it on their helm, a precious slot ( Minos Legend, or int 6, or cha 6, or wis 6).
Having access, so easily, to wizardry 6 on the slot of your choice is a boon.

Also, be careful to compare other raid loots. Shroud loot is by far the easiest to get, because of the control we get over it. Asking someone to run DQs until he gets a specific item is now silly. A lot simpler to level and craft what you need. Ingredients run are much simpler then 20+ queen raids and pre-reqs over 2 months.

[EspyLacopa]

Honestly, doesn't make me that sad. Means less grinding for my sorcerer.

In my opinion, most tier three effects are not worth 24 Shards when you can have one for 12.

I would be tempted to go for a Mineral II Amulet, and -MO/-MO/-MO goggles on my sorcerer.

[DagazUlf]

How about all this chatter about stuff un-related to the "Eldritch Rituals Cookbook" be taken elsewhere?

This thread is already difficult enough to keep a handle on.

[Boulderun]

Thank you! The dragon eye was a hot commodity at one time. No one even had potency type items yet for their new spells. Now we are tweaked beyond belief with the help of one or two raid items and collectible turn-ins..... Twas a much different world.

Let's not be ridiculous here. The Dragon's Eye was indeed a valuable item at the time. However, the Necklaces of Prophecy were total garbage when VoN was released, and they have remained total garbage ever since.

[Jefro]

[Valiance]

Ummmm... No. Do you even play a caster? The Torc isn't bad, but I have a battlecaster who is often in the thick of things and I only see it trigger about three times in a quest for 20-30 mana each time. It's alright in a pinch if you need the mana for one more haste, but it really isn't all that spectacular when compared with other raid loot (Pouch, Chaosblade). As for the Greenblade and the Staff, they are both flat out BAD. Melee's have FAR more good loot from the DQ than casters: The Glasses for TS, the Chaosblade, the Bracers (yes casters can use them but they are far more useful for a melee)...





Master Kadish

Hmmm... not sure what Torc you got man but I have it on my WF battlecaster and I estimate i get like 300 to 400 sp back per shrine. It is awesome and by far my number one piece of gear. I can start at 0 sp and fight my way up to full if I took enough time and used enough reconstruction scrolls. I'm farming DQ like crazy now to get it for my battlecleric. Torc FTW!!!

[Keneith]

Nice! btw, wats the rate of ur Greater Regen? is it 1hp/15sec?