Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[MysticTheurge]

True Seeing > Smoke screen

That's too bad. In theory, Smoke shouldn't be bypassed by True Seeing since it's not really an illusion, it's actual smoke causing concealment.

That alone might make it worth getting (even if it doesn't stack with other stuff).

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Did the two individuals who created Mineral II (1 Weapon, 1 Accessory) both end up with Earth dominate on the dual shard?
I can only find a screenie for one of the shards, which listed Earth. Since we now have an example of a pairing going the opposite way as listed in the desription of an aspect/balance, I think we need to start tracking this on an individual basis since we don't know what is causing a focus to be dominate over another at this point. Even if the dominate focus has no bearing on whether an item achieves "II" (questionable because of the failure of Land and Sky, since we don't know what caused it to fail) it does seem, at this point, to be what the altar of devastation uses on the third level upgrade, so it's important to know how the dominate focus of each pair is chosen, or, failing that, to see that each aspect/balance pair is consistant in which focus it defaults to.

Given this, if you create a dual focus shard, please make sure to post it... regardless of whether we already know the "II" effect or not, or whether or not the item successfully received "II".

At this point we have 6 successful "II" upgrades... Mineral twice. Looking at screenies, we know:

concordant opposition = pos
smoke screen = fire
freezing ice = air
lightning strike = air
mineral = earth (in 1 of 2 examples, 2nd not known)

One example of each is not enough imho to conclude yet what the dominate focus is yet in any aspect/balance dual focus shard because, again, we don't know how it chooses the dominate, but for those keeping track, that is what we have thus far.

You're just repeating what you or others have already said. We've already had a lot of discussion on which elements dominate which other ones and Inkblack has already posted a proposed order based on the results we've seen.

When I created my mineral shard I put Pos then Earth, and when CoisonJade put his in he put Earth then Pos, this proves that order doesn't matter since we both got Earth shards. That discussion can end - it just serves to confuse people who are new to the thread and don't have time to read all the old posts to see endless discussion about that.

Regarding the balance of land and sky, and why that failed - we DON'T KNOW. Eladrin has said that upgrading special combinations is trickier and some are trickier than others. We need to stop speculating and need to get into the Shroud, loot some large ingredients, and try some combinations. You've suggested two possible combinations (depending on which of your posts I read it's either add pos/neg or add fire/water) so we should probably try both (I personally suggest trying fire/water first).

I hope the message was clear from my 'ASCII numerology' post that we can speculate/theorize at infinitum about what the correct combinations are, but until we try, it's just speculation.

So - stop reading this thread and get into the Shroud!

Garth

[Zaodon]

Wrong! Earth + Air + BoLaS failed.

And we already know that order doesn't matter for the supershard.

Because we got two successes with different orders:

1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Earth Dominion Material (aspect of mineral)
3 Earth Opposition Ethereal + Positive Opposition Ethereal = Earth Opposition Ethereal / Mineral

Pos+Earth+(Earth+Pos=Earth)

and

1 Material Earth Escalation
2 Ethereal Positive Escalation
3 Ethereal Positive Escalation + Ethereal Earth Escalation = Ethereal Earth Escalation / Mineral

Earth+Pos+(Pos+Earth=Earth)

and

1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice

Air+Water+(Air+Water=Air)

But thats ok, you keep on thinking you can get BoLaS II by adding BoLaS. I bet you love farming ingredients...

[Ilandrya]

You're just repeating what you or others have already said. We've already had a lot of discussion on which elements dominate which other ones and Inkblack has already posted a proposed order based on the results we've seen.

Actually, if you read carefully, with my posts earlier today, I'm not repeating a theory I've previously had or one anyone else has mentioned in regard to focus dominance on dual shards being determined by a "flow" of energies/elements. Yes, I know we've had much discussion on this subject. As for Inkblack's spreadsheet, which I had already read this morning previous to my two posts earlier today, he's still basing much of that off of the "description of the aspect/balance showing the dominate" theory, which was disproven yesterday. (EDIT: You and I are referring to two different sheets/posts here. Upon reading what you linked to, he appears to now be lisiting it based upon successful dual shard results only, which I concur with. However, the two previous theories on how focus dominance is decided upon are now invalid, and his post doesn't go into how that dominance is decided upon, which leaves us without a theory... I presented a new one today to explore.) Without knowing how dominance is determined, the only things that should be on that chart now, since the theory he based much of the information on failed, is what we know for certain... the focuses that were dominate on dual shards that have been thus far successfully created.. so far six have been reported...two were mineral.

When I created my mineral shard I put Pos then Earth, and when CoisonJade put his in he put Earth then Pos, this proves that order doesn't matter since we both got Earth shards. That discussion can end - it just serves to confuse people who are new to the thread and don't have time to read all the old posts to see endless discussion about that.

I am aware of this, and disregarded that theory awhile back. If you are thoroughly reading my posts, you would know that. The shard order theory I presented yesterday was not the same one... you are talking about when it's applied to combining the two shards into one, in order to determine the dominate focus of a dual imbued shard... I was talking about when you combine the dual shard with your item, in order to determine why BoLaS I failed to upgrade to BoLaS II. Not the same thing.

Regarding the balance of land and sky, and why that failed - we DON'T KNOW. Eladrin has said that upgrading special combinations is trickier and some are trickier than others. We need to stop speculating and need to get into the Shroud, loot some large ingredients, and try some combinations. You've suggested two possible combinations (depending on which of your posts I read it's either add pos/neg or add fire/water) so we should probably try both (I personally suggest trying fire/water first).

I hope the message was clear from my 'ASCII numerology' post that we can speculate/theorize at infinitum about what the correct combinations are, but until we try, it's just speculation.

So - stop reading this thread and get into the Shroud!

Garth

Correct... we don't know. I'm suggesting what may work that we have not tried and giving reason why it may work. Yes, I did catch the humor and point in the ASCII bit... I realize we can theorize endlessly about this, but theory has played a large, and necessary, part in where we are now in the crafting process. Given that large ingredients don't drop very often, we can significantly decrease the time in figuring out the entire process, and perhaps the loss of ingredients, by relying on both theory and experiments rather than one or the other exclusively.

I personally have only one toon, a Cleric, who is able to run the Shroud, because I hate levelling... lowbie-itis if you will. Out of three ransacks, I've gotten a grand total of six large ingredients. At that rate, I'm guessing I'll have enough for a dual shard third upgrade in about two more months. While sacked, I have a lot of time to theorize, as old theories of my own and are others are discarded and we narrow things down through a process of elimination. If you aren't interested in theories, feel free not to read my posts in this thread, but if you are going to read them and then comment upon them, please read them thoroughly.

Of the two theories of mine you mention, I'm personally now leaning toward the pos/neg shard being combined with either BoLaS and Tempered to be the more likely one. This is because, assuming a current would take the path of least resistance and/or shortest route, the elemental balance combos have to either "meet at" or "pass through" the neg/positive current in order to get to the other element when looked at in three dimensions. None of the other combinations have to meet or pass through other elements/energies to get where they are going (which is why the elemental balances are different even from existential stalemate), whether you see them as passing through another element and taking the long way around to the other element, or see them as taking the shortcut through the pos/neg current to get to the other element. Also, if we look at the opposing force of neg/pos we see that the current runs through the middle to get to the other one... if we assume the other two opposing forces work the same way, they would run through pos/neg rather than take the path through another element. Thinking about the neg/pos current, with pos being the dominate focus, that would create a + to the elemetal balances, ie... strengthening them into II's. Adding other elements would seem to confuse the elemental nature of what has already been imparted, imho.

[Eudimio]

I think that's a fine longsword indeed.

Thanks Wulf,

Yeah, it is a nice defensive weapon. My main is a strength-based TWF rogue that likes to tank on the side. Sound like anyone you know? With this sword I can hit 80 AC. I used to very much enjoy reading your story hour back in the day. My main was a pnp character around the same time as Wulf. I'll keep searching for a blinding effect, but my ingredients are kinda tapped-out.

Happy Hunting.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

If you aren't interested in theories, feel free not to read my posts in this thread, but if you are going to read them and then comment upon them, please read them thoroughly

Lol I find it hard to read your posts because they keep changing - I think you've edited that last one at least five times

Anyway - looking forward to someone trying Tempered on BoLaS - I think a guildy is half way to getting the ingredients required, and we have Magma II planned for today/tomorrow so should see whether Fire is dominant over Earth or not.

Regards,

Garth

[Ilandrya]

Lol I find it hard to read your posts because they keep changing - I think you've edited that last one at least five times

Anyway - looking forward to someone trying Tempered on BoLaS - I think a guildy is half way to getting the ingredients required, and we have Magma II planned for today/tomorrow so should see whether Fire is dominant over Earth or not.

Regards,

Garth

Yup, I tend to do that when I catch typos or linguistic issues that I think would lead to confusion when proof reading. I have deaf parents and I'm used to having to think in two different ways when communicating based upon whether I'm talking to hearing people or deaf people of my parent's generation, so I second guess my choice of words a lot. I also, where some things are concerned, tend to be a bit of an "obssessive/compulsive" type a personality, although fortunately I don't struggle with ego or the need to be dominant rather than just assertive, so that helps, and some things I'm rather a type b on... but anyway I digress...

Good luck to you guys on your experiments. For those of you on Ghallanda who know me, as always I'm happy to help out on any run if a Cleric is needed whether or not I'm sacked, and as always give away anything I don't need, uber or otherwise. If you'd like to help me get another 100 SP and Concordant Opposition to help me cut down on my costs on the Shroud and other runs, I'm happy to accept donations of large ingredients since I still need 18 of them at this point.

[Inkblack]

As for Inkblack's spreadsheet, which I had already read this morning previous to my two posts earlier today, he's still basing much of that off of the "description of the aspect/balance showing the dominate" theory, which was disproven yesterday.

I thought I took all of that out last night -- where is it still in there? I updated based on the fire over air -- which is the order linked on post you quoted, recapped below:

Dominant...................................Submiss ive
Earth or Fire / Air / Water / Positive / Negative

Ink

[SneakThief]

Ash II is Enervation Guard. Chance for neg level on hit. Pics to come.

[sheldie]

Ash II is Enervation Guard.

Ooo, very nice.

[Cambo]

In process of update first post in thread with:
Recent News

and an index to important pages/ discoveries for quick reference.

Let me know things you would like added.

[DemonMage]

It's probably better to say the post is updated through post #whatever, rather than a page number. Given that you say you're updated through page 124, and the thread is only 64 pages long for those of us with max posts per page setting.

[sirgog]

It's probably better to say the thread is updated through post #whatever, rather than a page number. Given that you say you're updated through page 124, and the thread is only 64 pages long for those of us with max posts per page setting.

I have the same setting - I just halve the page number given and round up. So when someone says 'up to date to page 125' I think - up to date as at first half of page 63.

[Cambo]

It's probably better to say the post is updated through post #whatever, rather than a page number. Given that you say you're updated through page 124, and the thread is only 64 pages long for those of us with max posts per page setting.

I was going to link to the page. but I am unaware how that will impact those with max settings.
I wasnt aweare of those settings so thanks for the heads up.

[Cambo]

That's too bad. In theory, Smoke shouldn't be bypassed by True Seeing since it's not really an illusion, it's actual smoke causing concealment.

That alone might make it worth getting (even if it doesn't stack with other stuff).

If it was real smoke not illusionary smoke the wielder wouldnt be able to see either...
or maybe true seeing overcomes all aspects of the old addage...smoke and mirrors...lol

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I find the best way to link to a particular post in a thread and still keep the context is to use the button to the top right of the post you wish to link to get a 'single post view' then to use the link to the thread link at the top right of this page to get a contextual link - this can then be cut and paste into your URL code. e.g. Cambo's most recent post (number #2534) the 'view single post' link is:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...postcount=2534

but the 'view with context' link is:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...64#post1607964

which gives you the ability to move around the thread and is page number independent.

On another, more crafting related note, I've had quite a few people in game asking me about third tier upgrad combinations. There appears to be a bit of confusion about the gems and essences you should use at tier 3 when combining shards.

I think it's important people know that all the current evidence is that you need to match the gems and essences in your two supreme shards if you want them to combine.

E.g. if you are upgrading Vacuum I to Vacuum II - and you wish to get CHA +3 skills and 100 spell points, you should combine Air Ethereal Escalation with Negative Etheral Escalation. The Air will dominate the Negative and you will end up with an Air Ethereal Escalation with Aspect of Vacuum supreme shard which you can then combine with your item to give you the required tier 3 upgrade. I've had a few people just about to combine shards with different gems and essences and potentially waste a lot of large ingredients.

Hope that helps,

Garth

[Justicesar]

Is there an updated pic of Pure Pos Foci and Pure earth Foci weapons afte 6.1 when Blast description was changed??? I can not find and know that the Blast description was changed but would like to know or see what the Blast on pure POS is.

Thanks

[MysticTheurge]

If it was real smoke not illusionary smoke the wielder wouldnt be able to see either...
or maybe true seeing overcomes all aspects of the old addage...smoke and mirrors...lol

That assumes the smoke is consistent across the wielder's entire body.

It could provide significant concealment without hindering the wielder's vision simply by not covering much of his or her face.

[Yaga_Nub]

That's too bad. In theory, Smoke shouldn't be bypassed by True Seeing since it's not really an illusion, it's actual smoke causing concealment.

That alone might make it worth getting (even if it doesn't stack with other stuff).

If it was real smoke not illusionary smoke the wielder wouldnt be able to see either...
or maybe true seeing overcomes all aspects of the old addage...smoke and mirrors...lol

That assumes the smoke is consistent across the wielder's entire body.

It could provide significant concealment without hindering the wielder's vision simply by not covering much of his or her face.

Let's think about this for a minute. We use Solid Fog and Acid Cloud all the time and we don't say, "Wow I know this a spell but shouldn't it impair my vision as well as my enemies!" No, we just accept that these spells don't affect the caster or his/her party. Why can't we just except that it's magic and that the "real" smoke wouldn't affect the wielder and that True Sight shouldn't penetrate smoke because there's no illusion to it, it's real smoke.

True Sight doesn't negate the % chance to miss from Solid Fog does it?

[MysticTheurge]

True Sight doesn't negate the % chance to miss from Solid Fog does it?

No. In fact, that's the main benefit of some cloud spells (obscuring mist, fog cloud). They create actual fog, not illusory fog, and therefore True Seeing sees the fog for what it is.

In fact, the visuals on DDO's blur and displacement are remarkably deceptive. Neither spell should create wispy stuff around the subject, like they do in DDO. While under the effect of a blur spell your "outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering." And displacement causes you to appear to be "about 2 feet away from [your] true location."