Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Ironwind]

UPGRADED FULLY:

Weapon
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Earth Dominion Material (aspect of mineral)
3 Earth Opposition Ethereal + Positive Opposition Ethereal = Earth Opposition Ethereal / Mineral

Item
1 negative Escalation Ethereal (negative affinity)
2 positive Escalation Ethereal(existential stalemate)
3 positive Escalation Ethereal + negative Escalation Ethereal = positive escalation ethereal / Existential Stalemate

Weapon
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Air Dominion Material (aspect of lightning)
3 Air Dominion Material + Positive Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Lightning

Weapon
1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice


DID NOT UPGRADE FULLY:

Item
1 earth escalation Material (earth affinity)
2 air escalation Ethereal (balance of land and sky)
3 air escalation Ethereal + earth escalation Ethereal = earth ethereal escalation / Land And Sky

So I think I have the answer (but doesn't everyone).

Take a look at the Quote Box above and pay particular attention to the color coded text.

Notice the only thing in red?
Notice the break in the pattern from all the green and yellow?
---------------------------------------------------------

It seems to me that the very unfortunate failure of the double combine lies in the fact that ESSENCES in tier 1 and tier 2 do not match.

I do not think that the two Tier 3 Essences have to match 1 & 2 but they have to match *each other*
I also think that the Tier 1 and Tier 2 Essences must match to achieve a successful Tier 3 super effect.

ps. forgive me if this has been said already. it was 4 hours between when i started typing this and finished typing this. **** real life office job!!!


EDIT:
oops. corrected my language usage.
gems, essences, aspects. so many words! brain so small.

[maddmatt70]

Do both (and more). Create two shards, one FOM and one -OM. Combine them to form your FOM/Ash supershard, but put the -OM on the left and the FOM on the right, thus proving whether the dominant shard theory is correct or not. Combine your FOM with your existing item and get your +? Fire Resistance.

This way you add three new things to the Global Knowledge:

1. Whther dominant focus theory is correct
2. What ASH II is
3. What FOM Tier 3 is (+? Inherent Fire Resistance?)

Garth

p.s. Out of interest why are you going FOM and not FEM - I would probably say +20 HP is better than inherent fire resistance, unless you like taking swims in lava.

I recently tried -OM/+EE/(+EE/-OM). i was able to make the Supreme +EE and the Supreme -OM. I tried to combine the 2 with an energy cell and it failed. My next attempt will be to make a -EE supreme shard, which i know will combine into the final Shard but im not sure whether the final combination will result in concordant opposotion. Just to add more information, i tried it twice swapping the order pos/neg/cell then neg/pos/cell.

Should he still do that after this finding?

[SneakThief]

As I'm sure you're aware, if dominant shard theory is true, then you can't get INT skills from your +/- combination, because positive will trump negative and you'll end up with CHA skills Still useful for UMD though if your cleric/rog has that.

Garth

Yeah ... thats why I would be testing the theory on that item ... INT skills would be the ideal result ... CHA is fine if I cant get INT ... either way the SP are the real point

[EspyLacopa]

Which is Dominant: Air or Negative?

Thinking about going for -MO // AEE // (AEE/-EE) on my goggles, get the extra 300 SP, blindness immunity, disease immunity, as well as whatever the Vacuum II bonus is. Just wondering which is Dominant now.

[Ironwind]

I recently tried -OM/+EE/(+EE/-OM). i was able to make the Supreme +EE and the Supreme -OM. I tried to combine the 2 with an energy cell and it failed. My next attempt will be to make a -EE supreme shard, which i know will combine into the final Shard but im not sure whether the final combination will result in concordant opposotion. Just to add more information, i tried it twice swapping the order pos/neg/cell then neg/pos/cell.

This only confirms my hypothesis in my previous post
Notice that the shards he attempted to combine had different ESSENCE. (look at the quote above in red)
Luckily for him the Altar wouldn't even combine the shards and he didn't lose any ingredients.

[Inkblack]

Which is Dominant: Air or Negative?

Thinking about going for -MO // AEE // (AEE/-EE) on my goggles, get the extra 300 SP, blindness immunity, disease immunity, as well as whatever the Vacuum II bonus is. Just wondering which is Dominant now.

If it is strictly hierarchical, then air is dominant over negative.

Past examples show air is dominant over positive, and positive is dominant over negative.

Ink

[SneakThief]

Should he still do that after this finding?

The third tier gems/essences will still be identical on mine. Just the foci will be different. That has seemed to work in each case. I didnt plan it that way, but if Im gambling between 2 effects, it just happened that the effects I would chose are the same Gem/Essence.

[Zaodon]

So I think I have the answer (but doesn't everyone).

Take a look at the Quote Box above and pay particular attention to the color coded text.

Notice the only thing in red?
Notice the break in the pattern from all the green and yellow?
---------------------------------------------------------

It seems to me that the very unfortunate failure of the double combine lies in the fact that ESSENCES in tier 1 and tier 2 do not match.

I do not think that the two Tier 3 Essences have to match 1 & 2 but they have to match *each other*
I also think that the Tier 1 and Tier 2 Essences must match to achieve a successful Tier 3 super effect.

ps. forgive me if this has been said already. it was 4 hours between when i started typing this and finished typing this. **** real life office job!!!


EDIT:
oops. corrected my language usage.
gems, essences, aspects. so many words! brain so small.

Beat ya to it !
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...postcount=2315

Neener neener!

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I have come up with a new theory as well - and I'm pretty sure I'm right. Ignore all my other posts.

I represented the upgrades as four sequences of three letter strings and then converted each character to it's ASCII equivalent and summed them then averaged them:

e.g.

Successful Weapon:
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Earth Dominion Material (aspect of mineral)
3 Earth Opposition Ethereal + Positive Opposition Ethereal = Earth Opposition Ethereal / Mineral

becomes

PDM + EDM + EOE + POE

which is

P 80 + E 68 + M 77
E 69 + D 68 + M 77
E 69 + O 79 + E 69
P 80 + O 79 + E 69

which comes to an average of 221 in total!

Now - taking this for each of the upgrades in turn:

PDM + EDM + EOE + POE = 221 (success)
NEE + PEE + PEE + NEE = 217 (success)
PDM + ADM + ADM + PDM = 217.5 (success)
ADM + WDM + ADM + WDM = 221 (success)
EEM + AEE + AEE + EEE = 207 (failure)

As you can see, there is a clear correlation between the sum of the ASCII values of the shards - it would appear that as long as you keep your 'ASCII count' above 210 then you are guaranteed success.

I recommend that before anyone proceeds with any more supreme tyrant upgrades, they check that it's going to work by following this procedure I can't beleive the devs didn't think we would spot this! Ha - score one for the players!!!

Regards,

Garth

p.s. the endless stream of theories based on FOUR results is getting amusing... how about we just wait for a few more upgrades and then work it out then!

[Borror0]

it would appear that as long as you keep your 'ASCII count' above 210 then you are guaranteed success.

Er... not sure abotu the whole theory... but 210, why 210?

[maddmatt70]

p.s. the endless stream of theories based on FOUR results is getting amusing... how about we just wait for a few more upgrades and then work it out then!

Well there was a 5th result which was posted which hopefully cleared up some of the theories. Phase 1: -om Phase 2: +EE. Phase 3: supreme Shard +EE + Supreme Shard -OM resulted in failure to combine the shards.. Undoubtably it will become more obvious with more successes and failures.. It sucks for the people who had to use ingredients for this though..

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Er... not sure abotu the whole theory... but 210, why 210?

Doh it's OBVIOUS!

Take the name of the Dev responsible for the design:

ELADRIN

Convert his characters to ascii and average them:

average ( 101 + 108 + 97 + 100 + 114 + 105 + 110 ) = 105

Then, because you have to use TWO shards in the Altar of Devastation, you multiply this by 2 - to give 210.

I can't believe you missed that Borror0...

Garth

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Well there was a 5th result which was posted which hopefully cleared up some of the theories. Phase 1: -om Phase 2: +EE. Phase 3: supreme Shard +EE + Supreme Shard -OM resulted in failure to combine the shards.. Undoubtably it will become more obvious with more successes and failures.. It sucks for the people who had to use ingredients for this though..

Ok I carried out my theory on this result:

N (78) O (79) M (77)
P (80) E (69) E (69)
P (80) E (69) E (69)
N (78) O (79) M (77)

Unfortunately the 'ASCII index' for this combination is 226 - which is above the magic 'ELADRIN Theshold' of 210, which kinda upsets the theory... Unless there is a maximum threshold... perhaps about 225????!???

Anyway, I'm sticking with my theory anyway - because I suspect that whoever did that upgrade must have just remembered what they put in incorrectly, because it's really easy to make a mistake like that when combining ingredients.

Garth

[Borror0]

I can't believe you missed that Borror0...

Yeah, because it is that obvious.

[Eladrin]

piloto = 110.5
eladrin = 105
-----
215.5

[Borror0]

Anyway, I'm sticking with my theory anyway - because I suspect that whoever did that upgrade must have just remembered what they put in incorrectly, because it's really easy to make a mistake like that when combining ingredients.

The only reason it failed was the usage of two non-identical shard (I mean that they differ of more than the focus).

[Borror0]

115.5

You mean 225,5?

[Ilandrya]

Not a theory... just an observation

When we combine two shards into one, two titles are created. The first title gives the name of the essence and gem common to both shards, and picks a focus to list. How does it pick that focus? We know that the shard does not pick which focus is listed based on the order the shards are put into the altar, so how do we determine what focus will end up being listed? This focus the shard picks appears to be the one it uses for determining what is imparted to it at the altar of devastation, so a clue has to be somewhere to help us discern this so we don't end up with a combined shard with a focus other than we intended to be dominate.

The only visable clue I have seen thus far to determine what focus the shard picks to favor is in the description on the aspects/balances. Without fail, thus far the focus listed first on the description for the aspect/balance we are creating when combining the shards ends up being the focus the shard "favors" in the first title.

Now when making a list of all these descriptions and noting which focus was listed first in each case, a heirarcy of elements/energies can be found:

earth when present in one of the two shards always results in being the dominate one listed
air when present in one of the two shards is dominate to everything but earth
fire when present in one of the two shards is dominate to everything but earth and air
water when present in one of the two shards is dominate to everything but earth, air, and fire
positive when present in one of the two shards is dominate only to negative
negative when present in one of the two shards has no dominance at all over any other element/energy

I don't know if this has any bearing, but it may help when formulating theories.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

piloto = 110.5
eladrin = 105
-----
215.5

Ah it makes even more sense now:

the average of Eladrin and Pilato is:

Eladrin - Average(101 + 108 + 97 + 100 + 114 + 105 + 110) = 105
Piloto - Average(112 + 105 + 108 + 111 + 116 + 111) = 110.5

Sum = 215.5 so as long as you stay above this number you're fine. (Phew - Kargon cut it fine with his warhammer!)

Garth

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Not a theory... just an observation

...

Now when making a list of all these descriptions and noting which focus was listed first in each case, a heirarcy of elements/energies can be found:

This has already been discussed here and is the crux of the 'dominant focus' theory that we are hoping can be tested next time someone performs a mixed focus supreme tyrant upgrade.

Garth

p.s. We back to real discussion now?