Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Zaodon]

I don't think it's as complicated as this. I still think you have to make sure both the gem and essence are the same. It's not as if you're going to get the effect of both shards anyway so you might as well pick what you want for your tier 3 effect (bearing in mind it's suspected some elements trump others) and then just add the other element to unlock your bonus effect, keeping the same gem/essence.

Garth

Here is the failure, once again. Look closely:

DID NOT Get Super Power:
====================
1 earth material escalation (earth affinity)
2 air ethereal escalation (balance of land and sky)
3 earth ethereal escalation + air ethereal escalation = earth ethereal escalation / Land And Sky

Focus: Earth/Air/(Earth+Air)
Gems: Esc/Esc/(Esc+Esc)
Essence: Mat/Eth/(Eth+Eth)

The failure was (X+Ethereal + Escalation) + (Y+Ethereal + Escalation) on the tier 3 shard. That means the above cannot be true, or else it would have worked.

The only difference was that he mixed Mat+Eth for tiers 1+2.

Also, note this SUCCESS:
==================
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Earth Dominion Material (aspect of mineral)
3 Earth Opposition Ethereal + Positive Opposition Ethereal = Earth Opposition Ethereal / Mineral

Focus: Pos/Earth/(Earth+Pos)
Gems: Dom/Dom/(Opp+Opp)
Essence: Mat/Mat/(Eth+Eth)

Mat 1+2, Eth 3.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

As I explained yesterday, the dominate focus on the dual shard is paired with the first focus to create the second aspect a THIRD time. In the case of the other examples, this resulted in successfully repeating the original aspect/balance. In the example that failed, it did not. Instead of creating balance of land and sky I and II, it created balance of land and sky and earth aspect, because although while the shard was appropriately named and made, the combination of the dominate focus of the shard with the first focus at the altar of invasion resulted in aspect of earth, not balance of land and sky.

It's not just the dual shard that has to be named in such a way as to mirror the name of the first aspect/balance, it's ALSO that the dominate focus on the dual shard when paired with the first focus has to mirror the aspect/balance also.

(sorry but) I'm not sure this theory holds any more. If you examine Kargon's Warhammer, he put positive on at first tier, so he got 'aspect of positive energy' and Holy. Then, when he put the two supremes in at devastation, they combined (in the order I posted above, air trumped positive) to create an Air shard. When he combined this with his weapon he still got the tier 3 special bonus effect, even though it 'contradicted' with the positive aspect in first tier.

(I know I keep saying this but..) I still don't think order of 1st and 2nd tier elements has any effect on third tier bonus effects. The only reason why Balance of Land and Sky didn't upgrade was that it's probably not BoLaS that needs to be put on at tier 3, I still suspect Tempered is the correct upgrade.

Garth

[Borror0]

If you examine Kargon's Warhammer, he put positive on at first tier, so he got 'aspect of positive energy' and Holy. Then, when he put the two supremes in at devastation, they combined (in the order I posted above, air trumped positive) to create an Air shard. When he combined this with his weapon he still got the tier 3 special bonus effect, even though it 'contradicted' with the positive aspect in first tier.

Kargon's wasn't a special update, it was a quasi-elemental. Not the same.

No balance to keep.

[Zaodon]

My theory:

Para/Quasi Upgrades:
==============
* Create a Tier 3 supershard with the same two elements from first two upgrades. Focii order doesn't matter. Gem/Essence doesn't matter.

Examples:
Air . . . Fire. . . Smoke
Air . . . Water . . Ice
Earth . . Fire. . . Magma
Earth . . Water . . Ooze

Air . . . Positive. Lightning
Air . . . Negative. Vacuum
Earth . . Positive. Mineral
Earth . . Negative. Dust
Fire. . . Positive. Radiance
Fire. . . Negative. Ash
Water . . Positive. Steam
Water . . Negative. Salt

Special Upgrades: (Special means OPPOSITE - don't normally exist in D&D)
================================================== ==
* Create a Tier 3 supershard with the OPPOSITE two elements from first two upgrades. Focii order doesn't matter. Gem/Essence doesn't matter.

Examples:

Air . . . Earth . . the opposite of (Air+Earth) = (Fire+Water) = Tempered
Fire. . . Water . . the opposite of (Fire+Water) = (Air+Earth) = Balance of Land+Sky
Positive. Negative. the opposite of (Pos+Neg) = (Pos+Neg) = Existential Stalemate

[EspyLacopa]

That actually proves my point. Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough, sorry about that.

Here it failed as it had Earth Affinity and Earth Shard, it would have worked with Air Affinity and Earth focus from the Shard of Supreme Power. From my point of view, it's like there is a little more air in the item then there is of earth. By adding the little more Earth on the shard you would create a total and perfect balance.

However, if there is Earth Affinity on the item and you add Earth focus from the Shard then it breaks the Balance and you don't get acess to Balance of L&S II.

However, like I said, Eladrin only said that "An item that possesses "Balance of Land and Sky" does possess an upgrade path, it is not bugged." and "All of them can be successfully upgraded." He never said that Balance of Land and Sky would upgrade into Balance of Land and Sky II, only "does possess an upgrade". So, in that optic, you could have one partern for Earth/Air and one for Air/Earth.

Did you miss the second part of my post? Here it is again:

So, for that theory to work, it means there is no such thing as a Dominant Focus. That would imply that this person actually put the two initial foci in as Earth / Air / Cell instead of the listed Air / Earth / Cell

If Dominant Foci are how it decides, then that still means that your theory is false due to the result: Half of the Land and Sky Combos cannot be upgraded to reach their full potential. (due to the revealed Earth dominance over Air). And Eladrin mentioned that they are all capable of reaching their full potential. (in this case, Balance of Land and Sky II)

Again, for your theory to work based on the givens from Eladrin (that all items will have that upgrade path), then there must be a way to get a combined Imbued Shard with the Land and Sky bit, as well as either Air, or Earth. If there are Dominant Foci, this is impossible. As such, for your theory to work, one of the following must be true:

1. Eladrin was wrong. . .not all versions of an Aspect are upgradeable to their final bit.
2. There are no dominant foci. (this would imply that whoever had made that combined shard of Balance/Earth listed the ingredients wrong, and had put the Earth shard in first)
3. There's a mystery imbued shard that will upgrade Balance I items without using a Balance/Earth Shard.

[Ilandrya]

(sorry but) I'm not sure this theory holds any more. If you examine Kargon's Warhammer, he put positive on at first tier, so he got 'aspect of positive energy' and Holy. Then, when he put the two supremes in at devastation, they combined (in the order I posted above, air trumped positive) to create an Air shard. When he combined this with his weapon he still got the tier 3 special bonus effect, even though it 'contradicted' with the positive aspect in first tier.

(I know I keep saying this but..) I still don't think order of 1st and 2nd tier elements has any effect on third tier bonus effects. The only reason why Balance of Land and Sky didn't upgrade was that it's probably not BoLaS that needs to be put on at tier 3, I still suspect Tempered is the correct upgrade.

Garth

postive = focus 1
air = focus 2

positive + air = lightning

AIR is the dominate focus for the shard as it should be... if you read the description on the item for aspect of lighting air comes first. The element/energy listed first is the dominate focus on the shard.

Now, with that in mind

focus 1 = positive
focus 2 = air

shard focus 3 + 4 = lightning aspect shard with dominate focus of air

dominate focus of air on the shard when paired with the first focus of positive results in lightning again

The theory works if you read carefully

the reason why the attempt with land and sky did not work is because the dominate focus of earth on the shard when paired with the first focus of earth resulted in aspect of earth, not aspect of land and sky.

The dominate focus of the shard is supposed to contradict the first focus. If it matched the first focus, it wouldn't recreate the aspect.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

I'd just like to say, that although this is obviously a huge end game grind, it's at least a very well done one. Good job, Devs.

By comparison, grinding for dragon scales sucked hard.

[Zaodon]

the reason why the attempt with land and sky did not work is because the dominate focus of earth on the shard when paired with the first focus of earth resulted in aspect of earth, not aspect of land and sky.

That was disproven with this SUCCESS:
============================
1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice

Focus: Air/Water/(Air+Water)
Gems: Dom/Dom/(Dom+Dom)
Essence: Mat/Mat/(Mat+Mat)

Freezing Ice

[Borror0]

If Dominant Foci are how it decides, then that still means that your theory is false due to the result: Half of the Land and Sky Combos cannot be upgraded to reach their full potential. (due to the revealed Earth dominance over Air). And Eladrin mentioned that they are all capable of reaching their full potential. (in this case, Balance of Land and Sky II)

I already adressed this. He never said that a BoL&S I would reach BoL&S II, he said that every item could gain a tier three special a way or another, period. That is all he said. So, it doesn't mean that BoL&S II will be used to upgrade both BoL&S, that only means that there is a way to upgrade it.

As such, for your theory to work, one of the following must be true:

1. Eladrin was wrong. . .not all versions of an Aspect are upgradeable to their final bit.
2. There are no dominant foci. (this would imply that whoever had made that combined shard of Balance/Earth listed the ingredients wrong, and had put the Earth shard in first)
3. There's a mystery imbued shard that will upgrade Balance I items without using a Balance/Earth Shard.

1. Eladrin wasn't wrong, I think he would have corrected himself already by now. I'm sure he enjoys reading our posts, reading our crazy theories and laughing of us missing somethnig so obvious to him. At least, that's I'd do.
   
2. Possible, but I'll doubt it for now.
   
3. Exactly.

[Tallyn]

Extending Gol's post, with his original text in white:

UPGRADED FULLY:

Weapon
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Earth Dominion Material (aspect of mineral)
3 Earth Opposition Ethereal + Positive Opposition Ethereal = Earth Opposition Ethereal / Mineral

Item
1 negative escalation ethereal (negative affinity)
2 positive escalation ethereal (existential stalemate)
3 positive escalation ethereal + negative escalation ethereal = positive escalation ethereal / Existential Stalemate

Weapon
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Air Dominion Material (aspect of lightning)
3 Air Dominion Material + Positive Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Lightning

Weapon
1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice


DID NOT UPGRADE FULLY:

Item
1 earth material escalation (earth affinity)
2 air ethereal escalation (balance of land and sky)
3 air ethereal escalation + earth ethereal escalation = earth ethereal escalation / Land And Sky

So why did four of these combinations work and one did not?

Preliminary pass at elemental dominance (if it exists):

• Earth
• Air
• Water (below air, possibly below positive and/or negative)
• Positive (below air)
• Negative (below positive)

• Fire's order is unknown

Ink

Edit 1: Added weapon/item types
Edit 2: Reformatted to make it quotable

One thing, although I lack the ingredients to try, to note is that the other upgrades that were successful had something in common. Tier 1 and Tier 2 the essence/gem were the same. The Balance of land and sky that did not upgrade successfully had a different essence/gem at Tier 1 and Tier 2.

I.e.:
Mineral (success)
Tier 1 = Positive + Material + Dominion
Tier 2 = Earth + Material + Dominion
Tier 3 = (Combination) Positive + Ethereal + Escalation and Earth + Ethereal + Escalation

Balance of Land and Sky (failed)
Tier 1 = Earth + Material + Escalation
Tier 2 = Air + Ethereal + Escalation
Tier 3 = (Combination) Air + Ethereal + Escalation and Earth + Ethereal + Escalation


Just something to note.

[Boulderun]

the reason why the attempt with land and sky did not work is because the dominate focus of earth on the shard when paired with the first focus of earth resulted in aspect of earth, not aspect of land and sky.

The dominate focus of the shard is supposed to contradict the first focus. If it matched the first focus, it wouldn't recreate the aspect.

He's saying that this theory is incompatible with the "dominant focus" theory. Either one or both are incorrect.

If they are both correct, than a Balance item that starts with Earth affinity can never be upgraded to Balance II, because the supreme shard will always be Earth-dominant.

[Borror0]

That was disproven with this SUCCESS

I'll say:

Para, Quasi, and "special" elemental combinations are a bit trickier.

I don't see why "specials" wouldn't be the trickiest. After all they rely on balance, balance is more complex. They are the wild cards... they aren't even id D&D lore!! And, after how complex this crafting system is, I'd not be surprised to see one or two more tricks from the Devs 'till the end.

[UtherSRG]

I already adressed this. He never said that a BoL&S I would reach BoL&S II, he said that every item could gain a tier three special a way or another, period. That is all he said. So, it doesn't mean that BoL&S II will be used to upgrade both BoL&S, that only means that there is a way to upgrade it.

1. Eladrin wasn't wrong, I think he would have corrected himself already by now. I'm sure he enjoys reading our posts, reading our crazy theories and laughing of us missing somethnig so obvious to him. At least, that's I'd do.
   
2. Possible, but I'll doubt it for now.
   
3. Exactly.

I agree with you 100%, but I'd expand "At least, that's I'd do." to be "That's what I'd do, plus those who guess correctly might find some extra ingredients in their inventory the next time they log in." 'Cos that's the kind of dev I'd want to be.... someone who gives a very small push to someone who is vocal about a guess that is correct, in order to have the correct answer come out sooner.

[Borror0]

I agree with you 100%

Cool, support.

I'd expand "At least, that's I'd do." to be "That's what I'd do, plus those who guess correctly might find some extra ingredients in their inventory the next time they log in." 'Cos that's the kind of dev I'd want to be.... someone who gives a very small push to someone who is vocal about a guess that is correct, in order to have the correct answer come out sooner.

Why not? Not holding my breath for it though, just having fun speculating.

[UtherSRG]

I agree with you 100%, but I'd expand "At least, that's I'd do." to be "That's what I'd do, plus those who guess correctly might find some extra ingredients in their inventory the next time they log in." 'Cos that's the kind of dev I'd want to be.... someone who gives a very small push to someone who is vocal about a guess that is correct, in order to have the correct answer come out sooner.

Why not? Not holding my breath for it though, just having fun speculating. [/QUOTE]

Actually, now that I think of it... I'd probably give some ingredients to vocal pronouncers of both correct and incorrect guessers, as this would speed the process from both ends: swifter ability to test both right and wrong hypothesis.

[Borror0]

Actually, now that I think of it... I'd probably give some ingredients to vocal pronouncers of both correct and incorrect guessers, as this would speed the process from both ends: swifter ability to test both right and wrong hypothesis.

That would make it too easy to figure things out.

[Vienemen]

Not sure if everyone knows it but the marketplace event drops include large ingredients. Guildy got 3 from one spawn night before last. Hopefully we can all gather a bunch this weekend for some more tests.

[UtherSRG]

That would make it too easy to figure things out.

On the contrary, it would mean folks wouldn't be able to figure out if they are on the right path or not when extra ingredients appear in their inventory.

Not sure if everyone knows it but the marketplace event drops include large ingredients. Guildy got 3 from one spawn night before last. Hopefully we can all gather a bunch this weekend for some more tests.

Bah.... too spammy, and way to may ninjas grabbing the loot.

[Vienemen]

Bah.... too spammy, and way to may ninjas grabbing the loot.

Not spammy enough and far too few ninjas to keep me out from looking for them.

[Snoggy]

Tempest Spine, Prison of the Planes, Invaders, Threnal... those are where I can remember ice flensers off the top of my head.

IIRC, some ice flensers show up in Ghosts of Perdition too at some point don't they?