Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[MysticTheurge]

If you are referring to my earlier posts, it's a working hypothesis, which is not the same thing as an assumption. One is based on following scientific principles, the other is not. Could I be wrong? Yes. Anything can turn out to be wrong when more information becomes known.

There are no scientific principles here. Or at the very least, we don't have enough information on Tier III abilities to be drawing any conclusions or even be making hypotheses. Which is why I said, at the start of this little back-and-forth, that the Tier III abilities could be based on any number of different things. To which you responded "No, it can't be made up of an aspect and a focus because it's an aspect and an aspect is made up of two focuses." Which is not a hypothesis. It's a bunch of assumptions. You're assuming that tier III abilities are aspects, and you're assuming all aspects are made up of two focuses and nothing else.

Again, I'm not sure what your point is here. I was defining what an aspect is in my last post, not discussing how second tier aspects work. What an aspect consists of, again, is straight from D&D, so it's not an assumption.

My point is the one I've been making since the beginning. We can't know that the "Aspect II" will be based on two focuses. Which you seem fixated on.

And no. There are no "aspects" in D&D. You made that up (or, one could say, assumed it).

And for what it's worth:

hy·poth·e·sis /haɪˈpɒθəsɪs, hɪ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hahy-poth-uh-sis, hi-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ses /-ˌsiz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-seez] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation.
1. a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.
2. a proposition assumed as a premise in an argument.
3. the antecedent of a conditional proposition.
4. a mere assumption or guess.

[Ilandrya]

I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification about the definition of hypothesis, and the info on aspects vs. planes. I apparently misread/misunderstood another post on the subject. I think my hypothesis, or whatever you wish to call it, about tier two aspects, or whatever you wish to call them, is a valid one at this point, and one I will continue to look into, but I don't feel the need to argue it further, nor do I enjoy negativity, so this will be my last post on it. Time will either prove or disprove it. If its wrong or right, so be it. No skin off of my nose either way.

[MysticTheurge]

I think my hypothesis, or whatever you wish to call it, about tier two aspects, or whatever you wish to call them, is a valid one at this point

I think it is a good guess and is certainly high on my personal list of what I think is the most likely. (It ranks, for instance, above the "Gems and Essences matter" hypothesis.)

I never really argued that it was entirely wrong. All I argued was with your assertion that other possibilities were, in fact, not possible. We just don't know enough yet to be saying what is or is not going to affect these things.

[Tomalon]

If it takes 2 focus' to make aspect I why would you think you could get aspect II only adding 1 more focus. Maybe something we need to look at it imbueing a sup shard with a focus and then with a foucs/gem/essence. if that would work then we would have a shard of aspect 1 imbued on to item X with aspect I. My thoght it aspect I + aspect I = aspect II.

Just a thought to chew on

[Erinyes]

EEE, in case we needed a screenshot.

[GwenJynx]

Here is my Positive, Escalation, Material / Negative, Escalation, Material Cloak

[Cambo]

If it takes 2 focus' to make aspect I why would you think you could get aspect II only adding 1 more focus. Maybe something we need to look at it imbueing a sup shard with a focus and then with a foucs/gem/essence. if that would work then we would have a shard of aspect 1 imbued on to item X with aspect I. My thoght it aspect I + aspect I = aspect II.

Just a thought to chew on

IMO we are reading too much into it.

It will be somthing like :
Fire+Earth = Magma I + Fire = Magma II (ie hotter magma) (Earth would cool down the magma)
Positive + Air = Lighnitng I + Positive = Lightning II (ie more static charge in the air) (Air would dissipate the charge)


Just got confirmation that Pos + Pos + Water gives not tier 3 effect.

[Erinyes]

Tier 2 on the morningstar, WEE (water, escalation, ethereal)

Tier 1 was EEE (earth, escalation, ethereal)

[Snoggy]

Believe it or not...i've read all 69 pages of this thread and am still pretty confused. I think i'm getting it down, but good job to all the contributors. I don't have enough time or resources to be able to contribute much.

It gets a little easier to understand after you've started going through the process with your actual items. Like you start to see how everything fits together, and you start to get a bit more comfortable with the tables shown here and what everyone else is talking about.

But yeah, it's still really tricky.

[rosu]

I am almost positive that Erinyes morningstar is the correct starting combo for upgrading to Ooze II. For the simple fact that hers is named whereas my maul is only +5 acid burst maul. Earth+Frost=great commander vs Frost+Earth=no name. Any other conformation to this theory?

[Ilandrya]

I am almost positive that Erinyes morningstar is the correct starting combo for upgrading to Ooze II. For the simple fact that hers is named whereas my maul is only +5 acid burst maul. Earth+Frost=great commander vs Frost+Earth=no name. Any other conformation to this theory?

This names air first then fire for aspect of smoke, but fire was used first and it was named "Great Commander". It is interesting that some upgrades get the name and others don't... I'm interested in finding out why as well.

[Cambo]

This names air first then fire for aspect of smoke, but fire was used first and it was named "Great Commander". It is interesting that some upgrades get the name and others don't... I'm interested in finding out why as well.

Definitely piqued my interest in the "name" indicating that you on the right path...i think there is more to that!!

[MysticTheurge]

IMO we are reading too much into it.

It will be somthing like :
Fire+Earth = Magma I + Fire = Magma II (ie hotter magma) (Earth would cool down the magma)
Positive + Air = Lighnitng I + Positive = Lightning II (ie more static charge in the air) (Air would dissipate the charge)

I don't know, Eladrin said:

There's still one thing that people haven't yet discovered regarding upgrading Para or Quasi elemental combinations.

Which kind of suggests to me that there's something else we're not thinking of besides just finding the right tier III to put on the item.

This names air first then fire for aspect of smoke, but fire was used first and it was named "Great Commander". It is interesting that some upgrades get the name and others don't... I'm interested in finding out why as well.

Is it possible it has to do with the gems and essences used? Both of the recent examples (WEE/EEE and FOM/AOM) have used the same gem/essence combo at both levels.

[Ilandrya]

Is it possible it has to do with the gems and essences used? Both of the recent examples (WEE/EEE and FOM/AOM) have used the same gem/essence combo at both levels.

Looking at Erinyes's example of the morningstar above, it looks like at first upgrade it went EEE and didn't receive the title on the weapon (first screenshot), then at second upgrade went Air, Escalation, Ethereal. Second upgrade screenshot shows it got the title, but the only difference was Water was used instead of Air. So, Escalation, Ethereal resulted in no title on the first upgrade, but did on the second.

[Cowdenicus]

Well I spoke with Eladrin and the rest of the DDO Gods, and they said I am on the right track to making the uberest most leetsauce item ever. You all on the other hand are only getting Vendor Junk.

Have a great day.

[Wutinni]

Is it possible that the 2nd Tier for aspects are not possible with only one greensteel item equiped? The Devs already said that there are ways of untainting the items to allow multiples on one toon. Perhaps Magma II is only possible if you have 2 Magma I items equiped.

Just a thought

[MysticTheurge]

Looking at Erinyes's example of the morningstar above, it looks like at first upgrade it went EEE and didn't receive the title on the weapon (first screenshot), then at second upgrade went Air, Escalation, Ethereal. Second upgrade screenshot shows it got the title, but the only difference was Water was used instead of Air. So, Escalation, Ethereal resulted in no title on the first upgrade, but did on the second.

Hmm. Good point.

Here's a kopesh that's named. +DM/WDM/+EE

But no third tier effect.

[jjflanigan]

Is it possible that the 2nd Tier for aspects are not possible with only one greensteel item equiped? The Devs already said that there are ways of untainting the items to allow multiples on one toon. Perhaps Magma II is only possible if you have 2 Magma I items equiped.

Just a thought

Doubt it since they specifically stated that you could *upgrade* a magma I to a magma II.

[Cowdenicus]

Doubt it since they specifically stated that you could *upgrade* a magma I to a magma II.

You got air in my magma......

[barecm]

Doubt it since they specifically stated that you could *upgrade* a magma I to a magma II.

Agreed. There is something out there that has not been tried yet. Since there are not too many people with enough ingredients and shards to start testing wholesale yet, we can only theorize. Once I get enough large ingredients, I am going to upgrade my magma I weapon (longbow) with earth (or fire) to see if that works. Conventional wisdom would say either earth or fire. Either one would have benefits, but I am leaning towards earth (EDM) simply for the fact that if it does not work, I will at least have acid blast on it. If I go fire, I would go FEM and get the extra 2 dex... but I am not so sure how big a deal 2 extra dex really is. Maybe +1 to hit, if that. ???

Anyway, I will post when I have enough stuff collected. Currently as follows:

FEM + EDM + (EDM or FEM) stats (+5, attuned to fire, magma, +6 dex and acid burst)


FWIW, the magma I clickie kind of sucks. 1 charge, 4 fire bombs that do ~30 points each. Most everything saves; so basically a cool graphic with no damage done.