Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Cowdenicus]

part 2 so far... hopefully soon part 3.... just need 8 more ingredients....

[digz]

Air/Escalation/Ethereal

[Shima-ra]

Those are the exact goggles I'm building!
Only I'm dont have everythign I need yet

[infernalmal]

I'm going Earth/Pos/Earth on bracers soon. Anyone else close to a similar combination like earth/fire/earth or air/pos/air for clothing? I want to know who thinks this will or will not give a tier 3 special effect and why.

[barecm]

Ok, I have a bow which I put first lvl fire + escalation + material, then went earth + dominion + material. Currently the stats are +6 dex, acid burst and attuned to magma. I was wondering if anyone has successfully made an upgrade to increase the magma damage. I was thinking either of three possibilities... more fire, more earth or positive for the next upgrade. My instincts are saying to add fire + escalation + material to get the +2 dex and hps and hope something else good happens.

Suggestions/theories?

[Inkblack]

After many suggestions, I'm caving in.

I'll start tracking Tier 3 upgrades based on the gems used (Dominion, Escalation, and Opposition) to look for additional Tier 3 bonuses. I have added it to my spreadsheet, and will track depending upon whether the essence (Material or Etherial) is held constant or not and whether the focus is held constant or not.

"Tier 3 Bonuses" tab became "Tier 3 Focus Combos". The new tab is "Tier 3 Gem Combos", the last one listed.

If you've seen a screenshot of a combo I've missed, please let me know. I'll update it as quickly as I can.

Link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...zJRx5CcCEpCaYg

Cheers,
Ink

[Mavnimo]

Dont cave in, those suggestions are guesses at best. I've seen pos/dom/mat x3 greater disruption and pos/esc/eth greater disruption. Both on weapons, both lead to pos/pos/pos greater disruption.

[Turial]

dont cave in those suggestions are guesses at best. ive seen pos/dom/mat x3 greater disruption and pos/esc/eth greater disruption, both on weapons both lead to tier 3 pos/pos/pos greater disruption.

It is entirely possible though that the "easy" or pure upgrade paths dont lend themselves to different results based on gem and mat. It doesn't hurt to track all items used in upgrading till we know for sure. It just takes more time, which we all thank Ink for investing to make those changes to his spreadsheet.

[MysticTheurge]

"Tier 3 Bonuses" tab became "Tier 3 Focus Combos". The new tab is "Tier 3 Gem Combos", the last one listed.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it doesn't seem to make sense to track focus and gem separately. That assumes that there's never interaction between the two. If the gems are actually going to matter, it seems likely that focuses used would also matter, at the same time.

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply record the actual combinations used and what they result in. I.E. +DM/+DM/+DM = greater disruption; +EE/+EE/+EE = greater disruption; and so on.

[Avernus]

I'll post here what I posted in the TA forums per the gem discussion:



I want to try something like this:

________Focus________Gem________Essence

Tier 1___Positive_______Dominion_____Ethereal

Tier 2___Negative______Opposition____Ethereal

Tier 3___Positive_______Escalation_____Ethereal

Put any element in place of positive like fire, and water(its opposite) in place of negative. Basically choose an element for the dominion gem, then set it against its OPPOSING element for the opposition gem, then escalate the dominion for an UBER UBER power. Might also be that you can escalate the opposition for something else Uber.

I think this may be what Eladrin was talking about when he said that people were missing something in the para/quasi elemental crafting...

ALSO, this would mean that the simple 1st, 2nd, 3rd tier combinations of the focuses is too limited in scope. The combinations might also include the gems and/or the essences. Like Air Air Air for example, could be(although I highly doubt it. I really think the Air must be opposed to something for the crafting process to consider the gems) Air.Dom, Air.Opp, Air.Esc and produce a different effect. Unless this has already been disconfirmed...

I think just the simple opposites (teir1.air VS teir2.earth, fire VS water, pos VS neg) would bring the gems into question. Also, the order here could matter (air v earth VS earth v air) for a total of 6 of these opposing combinations to be escalated w/ a gem of escalation. It jumps to 12 if you consider Material v Ethereal Essence.

[Ilandrya]

Ok, I have a bow which I put first lvl fire + escalation + material, then went earth + dominion + material. Currently the stats are +6 dex, acid burst and attuned to magma. I was wondering if anyone has successfully made an upgrade to increase the magma damage. I was thinking either of three possibilities... more fire, more earth or positive for the next upgrade. My instincts are saying to add fire + escalation + material to get the +2 dex and hps and hope something else good happens.

Suggestions/theories?

I'm going Earth/Pos/Earth on bracers soon. Anyone else close to a similar combination like earth/fire/earth or air/pos/air for clothing? I want to know who thinks this will or will not give a tier 3 special effect and why.

The Altar of Invasion = Focus 1 (Affinity)
The Altar of Subjugation = Affinity + Focus 2 (Aspect 1)

One of the following is true:

The Altar of Devastation = Affinity + Focus 3 (Aspect 2)

or

The Altar of Devastation = Focus 2 + Focus 3 (Aspect 2)


We know:
e,a,p = fail balance of land and sky (para elemental), w/ positive
p,w,p = fail aspect of steam (quasi elemental) w/ positive
p,n,f = fail existential stalemate (para energy), w/ fire

What I really need to know for sure how the third level aspects are formed is an example of either

focus a + focus b + focus a or
focus a + focus b + focus b

where a and b are both elementals, not energy and do not create balance of land and sky or tempered. The closest example to that I have thus far is the middle one, but it uses a quasi elemental rather than a para elemental. If quasi elementals can get a second aspect bonus, which at this point we aren't certain they can, we know from the example above that p,w,p failed which means focus a + focus b + focus a failed to create a second aspect of steam. I'm going to state then that if it's possible to get a quasi elemental to the second aspect bonus, you would need to have gone focus a + focus b + focus b, or in other words, using the example, positive, water, water. Based upon that, it appears that the formula for the second aspect is the first focus combined with the third focus, and this has to match the same aspect that the first focus combined with the second produced for the first aspect. Now, this is based off a quasi elemental though, not a para elemental which would be a better test of how second aspect bonuses are formed.

Therefore, I'm going to state that it appears your best chance for a second aspect bonus barecm would be to go earth for third. That should create magma "II". That is my hypothesis based on the information we currently know. If you choose to go either earth or fire for third, that will tell me for certain what the formula is, but based on what we know of quasi elementals, (yours thus far is a para elemental) your third focus is more likely to work with earth.

Infernalmal, given the above information I posted, I don't think that combo will work for a second aspect bonus. Earth/positive created aspect of mineral. You need to repeat aspect of mineral. We know that won't happen with your proposed third focus because we know that focus 2 + focus 3 does not create the second quasi elemental aspect. Your best bet from what we know is to go positive for the third focus.

[MysticTheurge]

The Altar of Invasion = Focus 1 (Affinity)
The Altar of Subjugation = Affinity + Focus 2 (Aspect 1)

One of the following is true:

The Altar of Devastation = Affinity + Focus 3 (Aspect 2)

or

The Altar of Devastation = Focus 2 + Focus 3 (Aspect 2)

It's also possible that Apect 1 + Focus 3 = Aspect 2.

Or, in theory: Aspect 1 + Gem 3 = Aspect 2.

Or any other number of crazy possibilities.

[Ilandrya]

It's also possible that Apect 1 + Focus 3 = Aspect 2.

Or, in theory: Aspect 1 + Gem 3 = Aspect 2.

Or any other number of crazy possibilities.

aspect 1 + focus 3 = aspect 2 as you suggest is the same thing as focus 2 + focus 3 because focus 2 is aspect 1. focus 2 (aspect 1) + focus 3 is one of the two I've listed as possible ways of creating the second aspect.

we already know from examples that gems have nothing to do with second aspect bonuses, only focuses do

[barecm]

The Altar of Invasion = Focus 1 (Affinity)
The Altar of Subjugation = Affinity + Focus 2 (Aspect 1)

One of the following is true:

The Altar of Devastation = Affinity + Focus 3 (Aspect 2)

or

The Altar of Devastation = Focus 2 + Focus 3 (Aspect 2)


We know:
e,a,p = fail balance of land and sky (para elemental), w/ positive
p,w,p = fail aspect of steam (quasi elemental) w/ positive
p,n,f = fail existential stalemate (para energy), w/ fire

What I really need to know for sure how the third level aspects are formed is an example of either

focus a + focus b + focus a or
focus a + focus b + focus b

where a and b are both elementals, not energy and do not create balance of land and sky or tempered. The closest example to that I have thus far is the middle one, but it uses a quasi elemental rather than a para elemental. If quasi elementals can get a second aspect bonus, which at this point we aren't certain they can, we know from the example above that p,w,p failed which means focus a + focus b + focus a failed to create a second aspect of steam. I'm going to state then that if it's possible to get a quasi elemental to the second aspect bonus, you would need to have gone focus a + focus b + focus b, or in other words, using the example, positive, water, water. Based upon that, it appears that the formula for the second aspect is the first focus combined with the third focus, and this has to match the same aspect that the first focus combined with the second produced for the first aspect. Now, this is based off a quasi elemental though, not a para elemental which would be a better test of how second aspect bonuses are formed.

Therefore, I'm going to state that it appears your best chance for a second aspect bonus barecm would be to go earth for third. That should create magma "II". That is my hypothesis based on the information we currently know. If you choose to go either earth or fire for third, that will tell me for certain what the formula is, but based on what we know of quasi elementals, (yours thus far is a para elemental) your third focus is more likely to work with earth.

Infernalmal, given the above information I posted, I don't think that combo will work for a second aspect bonus. Earth/positive created aspect of mineral. You need to repeat aspect of mineral. We know that won't happen with your proposed third focus because we know that focus 2 + focus 3 does not create the second quasi elemental aspect. Your best bet from what we know is to go positive for the third focus.

I am hearing you. The more I think about it, the more I like going earth even if it doesn't work like we expect. Acid blast is more attractive than +2 dex. I think my ultimate goal is to free up my +6 dex item and have some damage, which going that route achieves. The +2 dex would only get me a minor bump (if any) for +to hit anyways. Now, I just need collect a few more large ingredients. I already have the shard for that level so soon.... it will be mine!

[Inkblack]

Maybe I'm crazy, but it doesn't seem to make sense to track focus and gem separately. That assumes that there's never interaction between the two. If the gems are actually going to matter, it seems likely that focuses used would also matter, at the same time.

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply record the actual combinations used and what they result in. I.E. +DM/+DM/+DM = greater disruption; +EE/+EE/+EE = greater disruption; and so on.

I'm in a position where I need to make assumptions to keep it simple.

There are 6 focuses, 3 gems, and 2 essences per upgrade, for 36 combinations per upgrade. If the order is important, then there are 36^3 combinations at the third tier, or 46,656. That's more work than I'm willing to sign up for.

If it proves necessary, we can go down that road. But for now I'd rather see evidence concerning the gem theory.

Ink

[EspyLacopa]

aspect 1 + focus 3 = aspect 2 as you suggest is the same thing as focus 2 + focus 3 because focus 2 is aspect 1. focus 2 (aspect 1) + focus 3 is one of the two I've listed as possible ways of creating the second aspect.

Not really.

Assuming that: Apect 1 = Focus 1 + Focus 2

And the idea that: Aspect 2 = Aspect 1 + Focus 3

Then saying that Aspect 2 = Focus 2 + Focus 3 would be the same as saying Focus 1 doesn't matter in getting that Aspect 2.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

DDO Wiki Updated with the information from over the weekend.
Can anyone PM me a link to the effects of Crashing Waves? I can't seem to find it atm...
And did we ever get a description of what Inceneration actually does?

I am assuming it is a "On-Hit chance to cast a fireball-like effect? Anyone know the DC or Damage or AOE or anything like that?

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

You and your wiki are using the phrase "tier 1" to mean something different from what the DDO developers and players mean by it.

I wasn't aware that I was using different terminology. If you could point me to an article defining the "correct" terminologies, I would be more than happy to change the terms used, as I am not really liking the Tier 1/Tier 2 Ingredients thing myself... but it was what I thought I had read on the DDO Website.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I wasn't aware that I was using different terminology. If you could point me to an article defining the "correct" terminologies, I would be more than happy to change the terms used, as I am not really liking the Tier 1/Tier 2 Ingredients thing myself... but it was what I thought I had read on the DDO Website.

You are currently using Tier1/Tier2. The correct terms (from Turbine's Beginners' Guide) are 'Raw Ingredients' and 'Manufactured Ingredients'.

Posters on the DDO Forums have been using Tier1/2/3 for each of the altars. Altar of Invasion = Tier1, Altar of Subjugation = Tier2, Altar of Devastation = Tier3.

[Ilandrya]

Not really.

Assuming that: Apect 1 = Focus 1 + Focus 2

And the idea that: Aspect 2 = Aspect 1 + Focus 3

Then saying that Aspect 2 = Focus 2 + Focus 3 would be the same as saying Focus 1 doesn't matter in getting that Aspect 2.

I understand what you are saying but I don't think you are following me. For the purpose of clarification:

Aspect 1 + Focus 3 = Aspect 2 as MysticTheurge states is not possible because an aspect is comprised of two focuses, not three. Aspect 1 (created by using focus 1 + focus 2) + focus 3 is three focuses.

Upon selecting focus 2, we create aspect 1, which is comprised of both focus 1 and 2, and that is why I equate focus 2 with aspect 1 and stated that the way I did. It was to simplify for the purpose of understanding, not to disclude focus 1.

Because I don't have enough evidence to state unequivicably that aspect 2 is created using focus 1 and focus 3 as I suspect, I have to also include the possibility that it is created using focus 2 and focus 3 until I have adequate evidence to the contrary.