Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I thought it had already been confirmed by a dev that lightning + positive was not lightning 2 (just as lightning + air was not positive 2).

But why would getting "Air in your lightning" be an upgrade when getting "Positive energy in your lightning" was confirmed by a dev as not being an upgrade?

Unless I missed a post - I don't believe either of these statements have confirmed by Eladrin. He just said that pos/air/air was different from air/air/pos.

We know that the upgrade path is more complex -- we know that we are missing something regarding the upgrade...following the standard path does nothing to allow it to be either complex or resolve the missing knowledge.

We only know that the upgrade path for quasielemental and paraelemental combinations is 'trickier' - but we don't know how much more trickier - it might just be a matter of putting in either the 1st or 2nd tier focus at 3rd tier (I'm guessing 1st, since 2nd didn't work here).

We also know that you can mix gems (e.g. +DM +DM +OM) and it preserves the 3rd tier bonus. It is not confirmed we can mix essences and preserve 2rd tier bonus.

Granted anything someone tries that is new gives us more information...but we need to "think outside the box" a bit here regarding upgrading the special effects.

Indeed. I think it's critical that someone tries A/B/A as soon as possible - e.g. air/pos/air (I need a few more large for this) or fire/earth/fire. This is a combination that has not yet been tried (according to my records) and looks both simple and promising, and doesn't require investing two shards at devastation

Garth

[Vesuvia]

As a followup to my last post of #1458, I do realize that staying straight to an element will produce an effect regardless if you flip around the opposition/dominion/escalation and material/ethereal. Now since it's just straight element perhaps this is why it's deemed "easy", and when i gets difficult or "special" or "trickier" is when you start combining elements or energies as well as combining opp/dom/esc. Like I previously stated if someone has tried all three in an item please post.

[RioRussell]

Indeed. I think it's critical that someone tries A/B/A as soon as possible - e.g. air/pos/air (I need a few more large for this) or fire/earth/fire. This is a combination that has not yet been tried (according to my records) and looks both simple and promising, and doesn't require investing two shards at devastation

Garth

Completely agree. I think the logical step (as a community) is to try a fire/earth/fire, but if that adds no direct benefit, the two paths we go down are gem combinations (cheaper to build but complex with the two previous tier possiblities) or a fire/earth/(fire+earth). Seeing as how I have 3 small kids, a wife, and a job... I leave it to the community to invest the time and blaze the trail for me

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

As a followup to my last post of #1458, I do realize that staying straight to an element will produce an effect regardless if you flip around the opposition/dominion/escalation and material/ethereal.

Just to be pedantic about this, I don't believe anybody has posted an item with a successful 3rd tier bonus effect with different essences yet.

Now since it's just straight element perhaps this is why it's deemed "easy", and when i gets difficult or "special" or "trickier" is when you start combining elements or energies as well as combining opp/dom/esc. Like I previously stated if someone has tried all three in an item please post.

Yes I agree that this is a possibility, but I still think that exploring the 'simplier' options is a good place to start - once we reach a deadend, the more complex suggestions (e.g. mixing essences/gems, or using 2x shards, or combining shards - all good ideas) can be fully explored.

Garth

[Erinyes]

Indeed. I think it's critical that someone tries A/B/A as soon as possible - e.g. air/pos/air (I need a few more large for this) or fire/earth/fire. This is a combination that has not yet been tried (according to my records) and looks both simple and promising, and doesn't require investing two shards at devastation

Garth

Agreed. People have to be close, so I think once someone completes one of these paths, we'll have an answer of some sort to build from. And regardless of what idea is better, I'm sure we'll get the answer to an A/B/A combination before we find someone with two imbued superior power shards.

[jjflanigan]

Unless I missed a post - I don't believe either of these statements have confirmed by Eladrin. He just said that pos/air/air was different from air/air/pos.

He said it in this post --

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=899

I posited the same question adding air to lighting -- "Pos / air would make lighting, then upgrade it with more air" and he responded -- "You got air in my lightning!"

I then mused about making "big air" (i.e. air/air) and adding positive into that to attain a "bigger lightning" and he responded -- "You got positive energy in my (lots of) air!"

These two statements are why I feel very strongly about my hypothesis regarding the tier 3 upgrade.

[Vesuvia]

I have to agree, that "trickier" does not mean lets start with the most simple things first. Also, like in the previous post about you got lightning in my air and what not, that's basically saying that's not going to work. Besides it's already been said, we're missing something and i HIGHLY doubt that something is putting more air into my lightning.

I HIGHLY believe that either we're needing to lean toward dual power sharding at tier 3, or mixing esc/dom/opp, or something along these lines that's not so heavily focused on the element. Lets be honest here if you have magma the only way to increase magma is fire and earth, not one of each will do. So this suggests two shards or something else that will generate more power in the item itself to make the current magma more powerful.

[Big-Dex]

Here is what we have from Eladrin to date...

• A weapon with, say, "Magma I" on it at Tier Two can be upgraded to "Magma II" at Tier Three. Pure elements are the easiest ones to upgrade since you can just slap another Fire onto that Fire stick, and it'll work. Para, Quasi, and "special" elemental combinations are a bit trickier.
• Quasi-elements are already pretty obscure. Quasi-para-elements are one step beyond them.
• Air + Air + Positive will not result in the same thing as Positive + Positive + Air.
• There's still one thing that people haven't yet discovered regarding upgrading Para or Quasi elemental combinations.
• Every elemental combination will do something neat at Tier Two, though none reach their full potential until Tier Three. A Tier Two recipe without a proper Tier Three addition will not unlock the full potential of the item. Saying the item is disappointing and needs to be remade from scratch may be a bit excessive - it's still a Tier Two item with an additional benefit from the Tier Three improvement.
• Quasi-Para-Elemental combinations (Obsidian, Pumice, etc.) are one step beyond as weird as we wanted to go
• There is difference between those two upgrade chains (regarding the mix: pos/air/air and air/air/pos).
• You got air in my lightning (to upgrading pos/air = lightning with more air).
• You got positive energy in my (lots of) air (to upgrading air/air (/pos) would make bigger air)
• Quasi-elemental, para-elemental, and "special" tier three upgrade paths exist, and tend to have superior abilities to the "easy" elemental upgrades.
• If you put Positive on it at stage one, you have quite a number of possibilities open to you at the end.
• All of them can be successfully upgraded (to the querey "Can you confirm whether all 2nd tier para or quasi elemental combinations can be successfully upgraded into a 3rd tier 'bonus special effect', or just some of them
• That should be showing something as a tier three Earth upgrade. It's possible the description was accidentally set to "don't display" or otherwise acting oddly, I'll have someone investigate it (regarding the EEE on an item giving a hidden form of good guard).
• Re: Horns Someone was a noob and didn't take them out of the treasure tables. They'll be given a (useful) use in the future.

To these I add the following tidbit of information. Mind you, I have asked Eladrin if I could release the contents of this PM, but he never replied. But, I have waited 'til I had conducted my own experiments to confirm or deny.

I asked Eladrin the following...

Can more than one imbued shard of power be applied to a green steel blank at each altar? More specifically, can three shards of power be applied at each altar, since there are two additional empty slots in the device when you upgrade an item.

To which he replied...

Very careful wording: All imbuing recipes that include a greensteel weapon or item use only one shard of power.

That is an exact quote, to include the phrase "Very careful wording:" Now... perhaps you can help me with the meaning.

I can independently and irrefutably confirm that 2 imbued shards of power cannot be applied to a green steel blank on the Altar of Invasion. I have just gotten three, but need to create a new green steel blank to test this theory. I will update this when I find out, so check back.

I can independently confirm that 2 imbued shards of power cannot be combined into a 3rd blank shard of power on the Altar of Invasion. I tried wearing either the blank shard or the imbued shard in my trinket spot while attempting this too. I have also tested combining 3 imbued shards of power into a blank shard of power. That did not work either.

I can independently confirm that I tested all of the following Soul Gems: Weak Essences of Fire, Weak Essence of Earth, Weak Essence of Dominion, Essence of Fire and Essence of Earth. None of them could be placed in the Altar of Invastion or the Altar of Subjugation. I did not try to put one in when upgrading a blank, but plan to and will update when I do.

So, hopefully this information helps some. BTW, the three imbued shards were F/D/M, E/D/M, F/D/M.

So, any other theories for me to test while I have the ability, let me know. BTW, I almost have enough items to run the same tests on the Altar of Subjugation (Teir 2), which I will do while I have the stuffs.

Dex from Semper Fi (Argo)
<sigh> Now to start focusing on Large ingredients and part 4-5...

[Avernus]

I didn't get any feedback on my post, so I'm going to re-post in the hopes that no one saw it originally:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...postcount=1350

Someone who has done a lot of crafting please investigate this idea for me...I have a lot of large ingredients to obtain before I can update the goggles I currently have from Tier 2 to Tier 3.

[SteeleTrueheart]

I can independently and irrefutably confirm that 2 imbued shards of power cannot be applied to a green steel blank on the Altar of Invasion. I have just gotten three, but need to create a new green steel blank to test this theory. I will update this when I find out, so check back.

I can independently confirm that 2 imbued shards of power cannot be combined into a 3rd blank shard of power on the Altar of Invasion. I tried wearing either the blank shard or the imbued shard in my trinket spot while attempting this too. I have also tested combining 3 imbued shards of power into a blank shard of power. That did not work either.

I can independently confirm that I tested all of the following Soul Gems: Weak Essences of Fire, Weak Essence of Earth, Weak Essence of Dominion, Essence of Fire and Essence of Earth. None of them could be placed in the Altar of Invastion or the Altar of Subjugation. I did not try to put one in when upgrading a blank, but plan to and will update when I do.

So, hopefully this information helps some.

So, any other theories for me to test while I have the ability, let me know. BTW, I almost have enough items to run the same tests on the Altar of Subjugation (Teir 2), which I will do while I have the stuffs.

Dex from Semper Fi (Argo)
<sigh> Now to start focusing on Large ingredients and part 4-5...[/COLOR]

Has anyone tried using an imbued shard with gem/essence/focus/energy cell to more powerfully imbue it?

[Big-Dex]

Has anyone tried using an imbued shard with gem/essence/focus/energy cell to more powerfully imbue it?

What do you mean by gem/essence/focus/energy "cell"???

Let me know and I will gladly try it.

[Boulderun]

What do you mean by gem/essence/focus/energy "cell"???

Let me know and I will gladly try it.

Shavarath energy cell + Shard of Power + Focus of Element + Gem of Thingy + Whatever Essence = Shard of Power with a formula imbued.

Then run the same recipe again but with the imbued Shard in position 2 instead of a fresh one.

(No, the ingredient position doesn't matter - just trying to stay consistent)

Alternately, try it again on the previously-imbued Shard but change the element.

[Big-Dex]

Shavarath energy cell + Shard of Power + Focus of Element + Gem of Thingy + Whatever Essence = Shard of Power with a formula imbued.

Then run the same recipe again but with the imbued Shard in position 2 instead of a fresh one.

(No, the ingredient position doesn't matter - just trying to stay consistent)

Alternately, try it again on the previously-imbued Shard but change the element.

OKAY. . . I can try this . . . but it is gonna take me a few more ingredient runs to pull the necessary ingredients. I am shy eight ingredients now... if anyone on ARGO wants to contribute to this science project... I need...

• 2 small bones
• 1 small chain
• 1 small scale
• 3 small shrapnel
• 1 small stone

Send them to DEX. If noone wants to contribute (which is fine) ... it will take me a couple of days to pull this laundry list together. I have already spent enough PP on all these science experiments, so I am not paying any more exuberant auction house prices.

[smithers]

I have spent a lot of time experimenting with both types of crafting and I think the community is very close to cracking tier 3. Been checking this thread every morning over coffee and think we're almost there. Actually I'm feeling pretty good about my latest idea (had to scratch my soul gem hypothesis yesterday when essense of earth and strong essence of earth were rejected from all altars)

My new proposal, along with reasoning, follows.

To achieve a tier 3 quasi or para combo, when embuing your supreme shard omit the energy cell and include essences for both relevant elements.

Here are the supporting arguments:

• Logically this makes the most sense to me, since it follows the model of embuing a single shard with selected magical energies which can then be applied to your item. (i.e. essence of lightning is not so different from essence of fire, and a single shard should be able to contain either)
• The official crafting intro contains this sentence, which I cite as the best evidence for my proposal: In most recipes, you’ll usually need to include an Energy Cell to power the device, though some recipes contain enough magic on their own to power the altar. In the walkthrough the context for this statement was the blank creation (Eberron) process, but the wording seems significant to me. Note it pointedly does not say "for other recipes you will require", and so far we haven't seen any other occasions where power can be omitted.
• From a cost perspective, this requires 4 additional large ingredients, which would be fair for items that "tend to be" a little more powerful than the straight elemental upgrades. I was not very convinced by suggestions that 2 fully charged shards would work, given how powerful the "straight" upgrades are. A recipe requiring 24 large ingredients would be either overpowered for the game or overpriced for the power IMO.

Fortunately, this can be tested without the extreme investment of collecting 24 large ingredients, and if the combination fails there should be nothing lost. If I am wrong I would expect the combination won't mix at all; no harm done. Finally, this is an experiment that some friends/guildies should be able to collaborate on, since a bound shard will only be produced on success (so maybe you can borrow the ingredients or the missing essence; if the combination fails it can be returned. If it succeeds then you have a bound shard, but hey, progress!)

I urge someone who is in a position to do this to please try this approach and publish your results. I only have 5 or so larges, but I'll be talking to guildies to see who is in the best position to try Tier3 on a quasi or para item. Might take a bit longer on my end...

Good mixing!

Halfpint / Saigo / MrTea / Coldpint / Ironpint of Eternal Wrath on Sarlona

[Cambo]

This is what Im hoping for in my Greatsword upgrade path.
Holy Acid Burst Acid Blast Greatsword of Flesh to stone.

Positive + Earth = Aspect of Mineral (Stone Skin x 3) + Earth (Ie making it more mineralised....) = Flesh to stone on random hit. YES YES STILL SPECULATIVE, NOTHING PROVEN

I still think its just adding the right tier 2 mix and right tier 3 element and not some uber multi add on combo mixture

Of course my combination above also uses the same essence and gem for the whole upgrade...so if i ever get there (ready to do tier 2 right now) then we will see

[Cambo]

I didn't get any feedback on my post, so I'm going to re-post in the hopes that no one saw it originally:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...postcount=1350

Someone who has done a lot of crafting please investigate this idea for me...I have a lot of large ingredients to obtain before I can update the goggles I currently have from Tier 2 to Tier 3.

IMO using all 3 gems would reduce the power of the item (a bit like multiclassing 5 levles of 3 classes) so wouldnt be the right track for an UBER tier 3 effect.

[Cambo]

[quote=jperz;1585376]



<B>

Very careful wording: All imbuing recipes that include a greensteel weapon or item use only one shard of power.

That is an exact quote, to include the phrase "Very careful wording:" Now... perhaps you can help me with the meaning.</B>
[\quote]

Nice questioning by the way.

Interpretaion....only 1 "shard of power"...what about "great shard of power" or "supreme shard of power"...could that be the difference in his very careful wording ?

[joeuhuh]

the combining 2 shards in tier 3 alter is a very attractive thing if u could gtet benefit of both shards- but this sounds extremel,y powerful and thus unlikely and also sounds extremely hard to do i wonder if instead of makin two imbued shards-- perhaps somone could make 2 focuses( foci)that are like the esences in their first 2 upgrades and put them in machine with a batery and see if u can combine them to make a focus of smoke or lightning or whatever then use that focus to imbue the shard for third tier upgrade-- the thing that strikes me about this thing is its much easier to test than 2 shards of power once u imbue ur shard u ahve to use the sucker or throw it away its bound but u can try to combine two focuses and if it doesnt work all u wasted was a battery

[Boldrin]

Very careful wording: All imbuing recipes that include a greensteel weapon or item use only one shard of power.

That is an exact quote, to include the phrase "Very careful wording:" Now... perhaps you can help me with the meaning.[/COLOR]

I read something different into this.... How about making 3 different Imbued shards , or even 2 , and trying to combine them, in effect making 1 shard with higher power to put on your Green Steel blank. Don't put the shard on the green steel until you know it's fully upgraded. I have a feeling a fire shard and an ice shard will make a different shard, like tempered shard. Which could then be imbued from the start. Then going 3 tiers of tempered may be something "Special" I plan on trying this with a weapon as soon as I have an extra shard, been giving them all away cuz they bind. And his specific wording of Shard of Power, not greater or supreme shards???? it's a conspiracy!!!

[smithers]

the combining 2 shards in tier 3 alter is a very attractive thing if u could gtet benefit of both shards- but this sounds extremel,y powerful and thus unlikely and also sounds extremely hard to do i wonder if instead of makin two imbued shards-- perhaps somone could make 2 focuses( foci)that are like the esences in their first 2 upgrades and put them in machine with a batery and see if u can combine them to make a focus of smoke or lightning or whatever then use that focus to imbue the shard for third tier upgrade-- the thing that strikes me about this thing is its much easier to test than 2 shards of power once u imbue ur shard u ahve to use the sucker or throw it away its bound but u can try to combine two focuses and if it doesnt work all u wasted was a battery

Yeah, combining 2 foci to make a para or quasi focus is also worth trying. Pretty sure it's either this or the self-powering dual foci I suggested above.

By the way, I wouldn't expect to get "benefit of both shards"; I'd expect nothing for either shock or positive and instead would expect a lightning effect or two...