Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Big-Dex]

he's talkin about the elemental energy not the Wiz VI

Aesop

Gotcha.. understand now... must read more carefully!

[SneakThief]

pfft... the air will just blow away the smoke, silly!

Pos/Fire is Radiance. I havent seen it posted. I personally dont seen any logic in adding Air to Radiance, but who knows what whacky things the devs put in there.

[Ironwind]

Given Eladrin's comments and the nature of Para & Quasi elemental planes...
The elemental planes are a ring. Vaguely looking like:

Air
Fire Water
Earth

The para elements exist between the major elements.
Basically where the major elemental planes rub against each other, so:

Air + Fire = smoke
Fire+Earth = lava
Earth+Water = ooze
Water+Air = ice

The quasi elementals are each element combined with either positive or negative:

Air+Positive = lightning
Air+Negative = vacuum
Fire+Positive = radiance
Fire+Negative = ash
Earth+Positive = mineral
Earth+Negative = dust
Water+Positive = steam
Water+Negative = salt

The specials would be:

Air+Earth
Fire+Water
Negative+Positive


So the question that seems so elusive is how do you reinforce in Tier 3 the para-elemental or quasi-elemental that you created with Tier 1 & Tier 2.

If you create Aspect of Smoke in the following method:

Tier 1 Air + Tier 2 Fire

Then how do you increase the smoke with just one more step?

According to the spreadsheet we haven't seen any of the following combinations:

Air + Fire + Air
Air + Fire + Fire
Air + Fire + Positive
Air + Fire + Negative
Fire + Air + Air
Fire + Air + Fire
Fire + Air + Positive
Fire + Air + Negative

These seem like a great place to start.

Let's not start hunting for ultra secret complex patterns until the simplest patterns have been tried.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Pos/Fire is Radiance. I havent seen it posted. I personally dont seen any logic in adding Air to Radiance, but who knows what whacky things the devs put in there.

d'oh! that's what I get for typing a quick quip without thinking it through. Oh well...

The air will just blow away the Radiance, silly! No, that doesn't make much sense, either.

[jjflanigan]

pfft... the air will just blow away the radiance, silly! Wait, what?


Seriously though, I have not seen that combo. IIRC, jjflanigan was working on something similar but had not yet gotten enough Large ingredients for the final altar.

I've done Air / Fire to get Smoke and am collecting the large ingredients to try to attempt an upgrade to Steam 2.

Also, if you simply added a standard element shard as the tier 3, it would be no more complex than any other upgrade, so I'd place good money on that not being it. We have to figure out a way to add "more smoke" at tier 3 to upgrade the smoke I. Be it through multiple powershards, modified foci, etc. IF you simply made another normal tier 3 shard and shoved it on your item...well, we wouldn't really be "missing something" but we know we are.

[RioRussell]

I've done Air / Fire to get Smoke and am collecting the large ingredients to try to attempt an upgrade to Steam 2.

Also, if you simply added a standard element shard as the tier 3, it would be no more complex than any other upgrade, so I'd place good money on that not being it. We have to figure out a way to add "more smoke" at tier 3 to upgrade the smoke I. Be it through multiple powershards, modified foci, etc. IF you simply made another normal tier 3 shard and shoved it on your item...well, we wouldn't really be "missing something" but we know we are.

My ephiphinal moment of the day. Logically, if you wanted to add 'Smoke II' at tier 3, why wouldn't you put imbued shards of power with each element (one with air and one with fire) into the tier III altar? Maybe I am being overly simple, but if I had the time... this would be where I would go.

Of course, I am working on my first upgrade, and seeing the prices people are paying for large ingredients, I can hear a collective groan go up from the playerbase if this is the case...

[Aesop]

My ephiphinal moment of the day. Logically, if you wanted to add 'Steam II' at tier 3, why wouldn't you put imbued shards of power with each element (one with air and one with fire) into the tier III altar? Maybe I am being overly simple, but if I had the time... this would be where I would go.

Of course, I am working on my first upgrade, and seeing the prices people are paying for large ingredients, I can hear a collective groan go up from the playerbase if this is the case...

I don't think you can add both to one... though I could be wrong

Anyone? BUeller Bueller Bueller.... Bueller


Aesop

[Grimshadow]

Material + Dominion + Earth
Material + Dominion + Positive
Ethereal + Opposition + Negative

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/614...ot00005ml3.jpg

I figured nothing from the ethereal plane would create an effect as a 3rd upgrade, gave existential stalemate a shot anyways. Still loving the +4 AC. Also wanted to show AC doesn't stack from weapon of parrying I am holding, BUT the +1 saves still applies.

[Erinyes]

My ephiphinal moment of the day. Logically, if you wanted to add 'Smoke II' at tier 3, why wouldn't you put imbued shards of power with each element (one with air and one with fire) into the tier III altar? Maybe I am being overly simple, but if I had the time... this would be where I would go.

Of course, I am working on my first upgrade, and seeing the prices people are paying for large ingredients, I can hear a collective groan go up from the playerbase if this is the case...

Hrm. This seems like it might be possible...but I agree with the groans that would follow.

Since Tier I items are easy to come by, maybe someone can test this theroy and try putting two imbued power shards on the same item (at the same time) there first? I doubt anyone, at least for a while, is going to want to wait to complete two imbued superior shards before upgrading an item to tier III.

That being said...wouldn't multiple imbued power shards at each tier be way overpowering? In theroy, you would also get the effects of the shards (+stat, damage, whatever) AND the "Magma II" type effect to boot. For that reason alone, I'm willing to guess this is an unlikely theroy, even though it makes some good sense when thinking in terms of making "more" of a para or quasi aspect.

Still, I'm sure people will have small parts falling out of their ears on the road to tier III upgrades. Has anyone tried more than one shard at the first altar? (aka Tier I)

[jjflanigan]

Hrm. This seems like it might be possible...but I agree with the groans that would follow.

Since Tier I items are easy to come by, maybe someone can test this theroy and try putting two imbued power shards on the same item (at the same time) there first? I doubt anyone, at least for a while, is going to want to wait to complete two imbued superior shards before upgrading an item to tier III.

That being said...wouldn't multiple imbued power shards at each tier be way overpowering? In theroy, you would also get the effects of the shards (+stat, damage, whatever) AND the "Magma II" type effect to boot. For that reason alone, I'm willing to guess this is an unlikely theroy, even though it makes some good sense when thinking in terms of making "more" of a para or quasi aspect.

Still, I'm sure people will have small parts falling out of their ears on the road to tier III upgrades. Has anyone tried more than one shard at the first altar? (aka Tier I)

Who said the altars need to function the same, though? I believe someone earlier on tried doing two at tier 1 (I could be completely mistaken). However, I still maintain that it not working at tier 1 would have no impact on it not working at tier 3. Look at it this way, perhaps the only time you can do a "double imbue" is if you are upgrading a previously existing "double imbue" effect -- i.e. Air / Fire = Smoke, so to upgrade smoke you have to add both air & fire. Prior to that they won't interact properly with the item to allow the "double imbue"

[HAWK480AV]

the info I am looking for is how many say arrow heads/chains ect to make a tier 2 ingreedient.

finding the charts to make the components I have but is there a chart somewhere
that has a number to say make opposition you need this many ( ) bones?ext.

I have looked at the spread sheets and I know what you need ie. arrow heads ext.
but looking for how many i need for all the recipes?

send a pm if you have the link thx.

[UtherSRG]

the info I am looking for is how many say arrow heads/chains ect to make a tier 2 ingreedient.

finding the charts to make the components I have but is there a chart somewhere
that has a number to say make opposition you need this many ( ) bones?ext.

I have looked at the spread sheets and I know what you need ie. arrow heads ext.
but looking for how many i need for all the recipes?

send a pm if you have the link thx.

Can you count to three? Post number 2 shows you the recipe for each focus/essence/gem. 1 focus. 1 essence. 1 gem. The most of any ingredient you will need is 3. Write down the recipe for the 3 ingredients you want to make. Write down the list of the six raw ingredients. Count the number of each ingredient you need next to the list of raw ingredients. Done.

[Turial]

Given Eladrin's comments and the nature of Para & Quasi elemental planes...
The elemental planes are a ring. Vaguely looking like:

Air
Fire Water
Earth

The para elements exist between the major elements.
Basically where the major elemental planes rub against each other, so:

Air + Fire = smoke
Fire+Earth = lava
Earth+Water = ooze
Water+Air = ice

The quasi elementals are each element combined with either positive or negative:

Air+Positive = lightning
Air+Negative = vacuum
Fire+Positive = radiance
Fire+Negative = ash
Earth+Positive = mineral
Earth+Negative = dust
Water+Positive = steam
Water+Negative = salt

The specials would be:

Air+Earth
Fire+Water
Negative+Positive


So the question that seems so elusive is how do you reinforce in Tier 3 the para-elemental or quasi-elemental that you created with Tier 1 & Tier 2.

If you create Aspect of Smoke in the following method:

Tier 1 Air + Tier 2 Fire

Then how do you increase the smoke with just one more step?

According to the spreadsheet we haven't seen any of the following combinations:

Air + Fire + Air
Air + Fire + Fire
Air + Fire + Positive
Air + Fire + Negative
Fire + Air + Air
Fire + Air + Fire
Fire + Air + Positive
Fire + Air + Negative

These seem like a great place to start.

Let's not start hunting for ultra secret complex patterns until the simplest patterns have been tried.

As odd as it may sound we may want to visually map out the locations of the various planes and their interactions. We can then see affinities between the various elements and the tier 2 abilites. This may allow us to see what would further reinforce a particular aspect. (note: yes I do realize that its a crazy idea)

[steelblade]

Aspect of Positive Energy = Positive + Positive = True Resurrection (1 Click)
help? i know i need a power shard but i dont understand this....how can i get X2 positives into a weap?
is it in 2 upgrades or the first?

[Cambo]

Aspect of Positive Energy = Positive + Positive = True Resurrection (1 Click)
help? i know i need a power shard but i dont understand this....how can i get X2 positives into a weap?
is it in 2 upgrades or the first?

You do the first at the Altar of Invasion (with A shard of Power small components etc)
You do the next upgrade at the Altar of Subjugation (Raid part 3) (with a Shard of great power and medium components)



Also on the 3 combo Effect...(YES MORE SPECULATION HEAR with a little restraint)
I think there is a lot of distracting speculation.

The obvious example of Fire + Earth = Magma I + Fire = Magma II (Extra heat)
or simularly Air + Positive = Lightning + Positive = Lightning II
have not been tried (checked ink spreadsheet)....until then I think we are making big leaps and perhaps muddying the waters

[Riggs]

Eladrin has stated that they did not add tier 3 effects for mixing para and quasi elemental effects. Pos or neg and an element is a quasi, and 2 elements is a para.

People keep testing 3 separate foci, and keep getting no tier 3 results.....I see all sorts of comfirmed 'no tier 3' results from a + b + c, or mixing positive and negative and an element (which would be a para-quasi element)

Positive and negative seem to only have any specials when combined with an element - so quasi elemental. Lightning/mineral/steam/radiance.

So far no one seems to have tested Element A + pos/neg + element A, or Element A + element B + element A. Only A + B + B - and most theories here seem to point to reinforcing the first aspect as the most likely way to get a tier 3 effect.

It seems like a fairly obvious route to test out. Once I get enough large ingredients I will be trying Air/Pos/Air.

I am kind of curious why people are still trying to mix 3 different elements or foci after Eladrin is on record as saying they didnt add any special effects for those combinations...

[jjflanigan]

You do the first at the Altar of Invasion (with A shard of Power small components etc)
You do the next upgrade at the Altar of Subjugation (Raid part 3) (with a Shard of great power and medium components)



Also on the 3 combo Effect...(YES MORE SPECULATION HEAR with a little restraint)
I think there is a lot of distracting speculation.

The obvious example of Fire + Earth = Magma I + Fire = Magma II (Extra heat)
or simularly Air + Positive = Lightning + Positive = Lightning II
have not been tried (checked ink spreadsheet)....until then I think we are making big leaps and perhaps muddying the waters

I thought it had already been confirmed by a dev that lightning + positive was not lightning 2 (just as lightning + air was not positive 2). The fact that they have specifically called out that it is more complex to upgrade a "special" tier 2 rather than a straight 1 + 1 + 1 means that it's most likely not going to be a simple adding of a single regular shard. It's really not so much of a leap when we have specifically been told pieces of information that directly point to it.

I just think it would behoove us to try out various things (multiple shards, multiple foci, etc) at tier 3 and consider it separate and distinct.

*EDIT*

It seems like a fairly obvious route to test out. Once I get enough large ingredients I will be trying Air/Pos/Air.

But why would getting "Air in your lightning" be an upgrade when getting "Positive energy in your lightning" was confirmed by a dev as not being an upgrade?

We know that the upgrade path is more complex -- we know that we are missing something regarding the upgrade...following the standard path does nothing to allow it to be either complex or resolve the missing knowledge.

Granted anything someone tries that is new gives us more information...but we need to "think outside the box" a bit here regarding upgrading the special effects.

[Vesuvia]

After some time reading the many pages, Eladrin has stated we are missing something. But what has not been mentioned now I know the double imbued shard in the third altar may sound promising, but if we find out it's wrong also then where do we go. So I have a question, and thus far I don't think anyone has done it, or even mentioned it. Perhaps to much thought and effort is going into the element itself. Perhaps in our blindness to sort these elements together we are missing something very important. Namely being Opposition, Dominion and Escalation. Has anyone attempted mixing all three into one item? I've seen several with two, but not the third after creating the aspect at tier 2. If someone has done this please reply and gun this idea down.

Vesuvia Hellfyre ~ Thac0

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

As odd as it may sound we may want to visually map out the locations of the various planes and their interactions. We can then see affinities between the various elements and the tier 2 abilites. This may allow us to see what would further reinforce a particular aspect. (note: yes I do realize that its a crazy idea)

Something like this perhaps?



Garth

Disclaimer: found this on google - if it's copyrighted or anything I can remove it.

[Turial]

Yeah that looks much better then what I drew up.