Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Riggs]

It appears that according to Eladrins posts, you would only get a quasi/para tier 3 effect if you reinforce the first 2 effects, you cant get magma 2 if you go air or positive for tier 3 for example. (and that would make a tri-para, or quasi/para - which was stated as not having any special upgrades)

So - the air/land, or pos/neg tier 2 balance/opposition effect is only at tier 2. To get a special tier 3 effect you now have to reinforce either the first or second effect - not add a 3rd different element.

So air/positive/air, or positive/air/air will get you something big, but air/positive/fire will not, nor pos/neg/air.

You will get the initial bonus, but not an extra special one.

he said going all 1 type will be the weaker of the types. So we should be seeing a larger special set of effects with combinations like earth/fire/earth, fire/earth earth, pos/earth/pos, neg/pos/neg etc, than just all three earth or positive.

Anyone looking to mix 3 elements I might recommend first trying to reinforce one of the initial two. Personally my ranger will be trying a weapon with air/positive, then either air or positive again depending if anything is posted by the time I get large ingredients. Maybe a holy thunderclap on a 20 or something.

[Keneith]

Hmmm.....it seems like adding energy at tier 3 (not unless u're making a pure energy) will not give u anything.
However, adding elementals at tier 3 might yield some effects...jus my feeling only..

[sirgog]

Heard it reported in another thread that 3x negative on an item grants Slay Living Guard, which randomly casts Slay Living on foes that strike you.

Have not seen a screenshot, this is hearsay only.

[Aesop]

Heard it reported in another thread that 3x negative on an item grants Slay Living Guard, which randomly casts Slay Living on foes that strike you.

Have not seen a screenshot, this is hearsay only.

lol now that would be funny... I think I need to make a MON necklace for my Rogue... if the fear doesn't get ya the Slay Living may



Aesop

of course that leaves undead and things stilll hittin me... but that's why I have a disruptor right?

[Hence]

It appears that according to Eladrins posts, you would only get a quasi/para tier 3 effect if you reinforce the first 2 effects, you cant get magma 2 if you go air or positive for tier 3 for example. (and that would make a tri-para, or quasi/para - which was stated as not having any special upgrades)

So - the air/land, or pos/neg tier 2 balance/opposition effect is only at tier 2. To get a special tier 3 effect you now have to reinforce either the first or second effect - not add a 3rd different element.

So air/positive/air, or positive/air/air will get you something big, but air/positive/fire will not, nor pos/neg/air.

You will get the initial bonus, but not an extra special one.

he said going all 1 type will be the weaker of the types. So we should be seeing a larger special set of effects with combinations like earth/fire/earth, fire/earth earth, pos/earth/pos, neg/pos/neg etc, than just all three earth or positive.

Anyone looking to mix 3 elements I might recommend first trying to reinforce one of the initial two. Personally my ranger will be trying a weapon with air/positive, then either air or positive again depending if anything is posted by the time I get large ingredients. Maybe a holy thunderclap on a 20 or something.

Your wrong about the pos/neg/air, we have not seen this and I would bet all my equip that it makes something cool.
We HAVE seen neg/pos/neg and that resulted in nothing, so there is a flaw in your logic right there. We have no idea what air/pos/air does but I expect, "You got air in my lightning" will be the result. And that doesn't sound good. air/pos/water, "You got water in my lightning!" sounds a little bit better.
You may be right about the earth/fire/earth, fire/earth/earth... those are para elementals and elements work differently than pos/neg. We know neg/pos/neg does not make anything, it would be more than safe to assume any similar combo would not work, pos/neg/pos, neg/pos/pos, pos/neg/neg all will result in "failures".

[Riggs]

Your wrong about the pos/neg/air, we have not seen this and I would bet all my equip that it makes something cool.
We HAVE seen neg/pos/neg and that resulted in nothing, so there is a flaw in your logic right there. We have no idea what air/pos/air does but I expect, "You got air in my lightning" will be the result. And that doesn't sound good. air/pos/water, "You got water in my lightning!" sounds a little bit better.
You may be right about the earth/fire/earth, fire/earth/earth... those are para elementals and elements work differently than pos/neg. We know neg/pos/neg does not make anything, it would be more than safe to assume any similar combo would not work, pos/neg/pos, neg/pos/pos, pos/neg/neg all will result in "failures".

It might be that mixing po/neg will only give special results in some cases. Maybe it requires a single element, so pos/pos/earth, will give something, but neg/pos/earth will not.

gpk posted a weapon with pos/earth/neg, and no special tier 3 effect was listed. So unless it a hidden effect, it looks like mixing pos and neg will only give a tier 2 effect, but no special tier 3 effect.

I was thinking positive and negative might be working like para/quasi, but it seems maybe it is not. So the best combinations will result in 2 elements, or 1 element and a pos/neg, but not 3 different elements and not positive/negative alone. Some people are talking about doing three elements, and it will be interesting to see the result, but it sounds like it may be a dud. (However if fire/earth/earth gave say a meteor swarm on a crit...well that would be pretty useful)

[MysticTheurge]

gpk posted a weapon with pos/earth/neg, and no special tier 3 effect was listed. So unless it a hidden effect, it looks like mixing pos and neg will only give a tier 2 effect, but no special tier 3 effect.

Eladrin's already said that the order matters.

+/E/- is different from +/-/E.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Your wrong about the pos/neg/air, we have not seen this and I would bet all my equip that it makes something cool.
We HAVE seen neg/pos/neg and that resulted in nothing, so there is a flaw in your logic right there.
<snip>
We know neg/pos/neg does not make anything, it would be more than safe to assume any similar combo would not work, pos/neg/pos, neg/pos/pos, pos/neg/neg all will result in "failures".

Where have we seen Neg/Pos/Neg? I've been recording combos every day from across the US forums and do not have a note for that one. We do have Neg/Pos/Pos created with no bonus effect.

[Myrdinn]

Where have we seen Neg/Pos/Neg? I've been recording combos every day from across the US forums and do not have a note for that one. We do have Neg/Pos/Pos created with no bonus effect.

Don't want to insult you, but this would be stupid of the dev to put an entry to say that you got a balance with the pos/neg and after that give a nice effect with a pos or neg tier 3. This is a BALANCE, so forget to use the same for the third one, pos NOR neg will work...

[MysticTheurge]

Air/pos/fire will not give anything, same for air/pos/water

This is a BALANCE, so forget to use the same for the third one, pos NOR neg will work...

Have you tested them, or are you just guessing like the rest of us?

[maddmatt70]

Have you tested them, or are you just guessing like the rest of us?

I would love to see fire on the third tier of that combo. ash and radiance with a balance it just sounds like it could be something cool especially if we are talking about a weapon..

[Hence]

Where have we seen Neg/Pos/Neg? I've been recording combos every day from across the US forums and do not have a note for that one. We do have Neg/Pos/Pos created with no bonus effect.

Ahh, I see he edited his post but it makes no difference it is exactly the same.

Neg/Pos/Pos

It should be clear to everyone that any similar combination will fail even Neg/Neg/Pos. All that will result is a Tier two item with a Tier three effect like Eladrin said. But not unlock its full potential.

The order of the first two matter, that makes an "Aspect" or "Special" ability. You have to add something to the Aspect or Special ability that would magnify it. The Special abilities are limited. Adding more of something that is balanced ("Special") will off balance it and not give you a special bonus effect. Adding more of something to an Aspect will amplify the Aspect.

Earth + air add Neg or Pos
Water + fire add Neg or Pos
Neg + Pos add any element

Earth + Fire add Fire or Earth (for second tier Magma, or Magma II)
Earth + Earth add Earth (although this seems bugged for items, and Eladrin is looking into it. It does give a special on weapons.)
Pos + Pos add Pos
Neg + Neg add Neg
and so on...

[Mad_Bombardier]

Ahh, I see he edited his post but it makes no difference it is exactly the same.

Neg/Pos/Pos

Right-o. Thank you for double checking and correcting.

[SneakThief]

Where have we seen Neg/Pos/Neg? I've been recording combos every day from across the US forums and do not have a note for that one. We do have Neg/Pos/Pos created with no bonus effect.

Thank you! That was getting on my nerves! lol

Eladrin's already said that the order matters.

+/E/- is different from +/-/E.

Yeah ... I think people need to stop thinking A + B + C = Combo and instead start thinking A + B = C (Aspect of XXX), C+D = Combo. There is a possibility that A (being the XXX Affinity listed on the item) might effect what D needs to be, but that doesn't change the fact that what you are trying to upgrade is C (ex: Magma I to Magma II).

The "specials" Eldarin refers to are: Pos/Neg, Fire/Water, Earth/Air. Those fall under neither a Para or a Quasi, so they are "special".

Pos/Neg = Stalemate: Has been talked to death. I want to see Kargon's Fire or someone do a Pos/Neg/Pos or Neg/Pos/Neg.
Earth/Air = Land & Sky: Makes sense to try water for Land, Sky & Sea, or maybe fire.
Fire/Water = Tempered: Man ... who knows. If you go by blacksmithing, I would try fire.

[Ironwind]

Here is a little something that you might all find interesting.
(forgive me if it has been brought up before, I didn't get through all 31 pages of posts)

There are 20 possible combinations of Fecundity manufactured ingredients for green steel weapon blanks.
But so far we only have 15 weapon blanks that have been listed.
Has anyone tried the other 10 combinations to see if they create new weapons types?

And yes I know the other 10 combinations make equipment, but only when combined with Filaments.
What happens when they combine with Ore?

Ore of Travail combined with >

red taper balm = greatsword
red taper jewel = maul
red taper oil = warhammer
red taper scarab = longsword

yellow taper balm = morningstar
yellow taper jewel = shortsword
yellow taper oil = great crossbow
yellow taper scarab = longbow

blue taper balm = dagger
blue taper jewel = scepter
blue taper oil = khopesh
blue taper scarab = throwing hammer

green taper balm
green taper jewel
green taper oil
green taper scarab

violet taper balm
violet taper jewel
violet taper oil
violet taper scarab

[Angelus_dead]

Has anyone tried the other 10 combinations to see if they create new weapons types?

Yes, people tried them. No, nothing happens.

[Riggs]

As Apious1 stated, 36 unique special effects is a lot.

What is more credible - that the developers had time to add a large amount of special effects(36) over the course of several months of work, or that in the same amount of time as it takes to add 20 new spells and a dozen new monsters, they have added 206, or even 500+ unique tier three effects? For each effect, someone has to code it, make the graphics, and come up with the idea in the first place. 36 is a far more likely target than 206 or more.

Eladrin has already stated that they did not mix quasi and para for tier 3. So any element 1/element2/element 3, or positive/negative/element combinations will result in no tier 3 special effect. Given the possible recipes with just the 6 foci, with A + B +A patterns, that is 36 possible effects, of which it seems only 3 or 4 have been discovered yet. IF, A + B +B worked also, that would be 72 possible effects, and the last person who posted an item with that pattern showed no tier 3 effect.

I applaud people who are testing things out and trying things that might be interesting, however there are already 36 possible outcomes that have only been scratched yet. I would suggest, rather than trying to go far out in left field looking for the most tricky combination - which would be possible in pnp since a DM could make up results on the fly - maybe it would be good to start with the possible known patterns that just havent been tried yet (I will most likely be going air/pos/air for a weapon intially).

Eladrin stated there is things like Magma II and Steam II, it is just figuring out the right pattern. Some have suggested adding in a third element to get a cool effect...but that route seems pretty much a guarentee of no tier 3 effect. Personally I would be interested in seeing Magma II before searching for a Magma I/Steam 2 outcome.

So here is the test;

Try A + B +A,
then A + B + B(which in one case has already resulted in no tier 3 effect I think).

Then Try B + A + B - and see if you still get Magma I and II depending on what element you start with.

As was posted already, most likely it seems that A + B + B results in no tier 3, so the real test is if A + B matter what is first. DO you still get Magma I and II if you start with either earth or fire? Or do you get a new result depending which element was first at tier 1.

If there is a different effect depending on the tier 1 foci, then that is again 72 possible effects. And if you add in Gem/Essence possibilities, add in a few more. 72-78 unique special effects is quite a lot. ( It seems unlikely that if there is a new effect for going all one type of gem, or all one type of essence, that mixing them will have any results, 5 special ones is more likely than 25 special ones)

Hopefully someone tries this pattern. Eventually once I get some large ingredients I will try the air/pos/air weapon. I would be curious what happens with pos/air/pos however also.

[Big-Dex]

Has anyone tried the other 10 combinations to see if they create new weapons types?

Yes... they have been tried. Inkdrop lists them all in his spreadsheet as attempted with no results and I believe I read something from a DEV indicating that some of the weapons cannot be crafted "yet." (can't remember where I read it ... sorry).

[incubo]

Thank you! That was getting on my nerves! lol



Yeah ... I think people need to stop thinking A + B + C = Combo and instead start thinking A + B = C (Aspect of XXX), C+D = Combo. There is a possibility that A (being the XXX Affinity listed on the item) might effect what D needs to be, but that doesn't change the fact that what you are trying to upgrade is C (ex: Magma I to Magma II).

The "specials" Eldarin refers to are: Pos/Neg, Fire/Water, Earth/Air. Those fall under neither a Para or a Quasi, so they are "special".

Pos/Neg = Stalemate: Has been talked to death. I want to see Kargon's Fire or someone do a Pos/Neg/Pos or Neg/Pos/Neg.
Earth/Air = Land & Sky: Makes sense to try water for Land, Sky & Sea, or maybe fire.
Fire/Water = Tempered: Man ... who knows. If you go by blacksmithing, I would try fire.

Has anyone maybe thought that A + B = D and A + C = ?

[Aesop]

well

maybe in an A+B+C series it could be

A+B= Para/Quasi and B+C = ... something

or A+B= D and D+C= E

or A+B= D A+C = E therefore A+B+C = ED... of course that's just for the guys


A cobo could be based off initial ie A

or the third tier Combo could be based off the the first and second tier combo... ie D

maybe I should start actually looking for paterns in the wiki charts... instead of guessing at possible trains of thought in the creation of this system

Aesop