Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

**jjflanigan** · 02-18-2008, 02:17 PM

I don't know, I love puzzles and figuring things out...but I don't like blindly stabbing at things.

Right now I have a helm with AEE / FEE with Air Affinity and Aspect of Smoke (assumed to be "Smoke I"). Hints have been passed that there should be a way to get it up to "Smoke II"...however I'm struggling to find anything in the game that would allow me to figure out what will provide that upgrade.

If we assume that it is equally likely to "guess" any of the combinations for a tier 3 upgrade and have it be the "right one"...that's a whole lot guesswork involved...Any of the 6 focuses, any of the 3 gems and either of the 2 essences could be the special upgrade I'd need to perform at tier 3 to unlock the potential in the item. If there's nothing in game to help me track down the answer to how to upgrade it and unlock it, that makes me kind of sad. It's a lot of work to collect everything needed to get to the point I am now. If I spend a couple weeks+ of time collecting tier 3 upgrade ingredients and then happen to pick the wrong one...I've basically just "wasted" a long amount of time because I had to guess at how to upgrade Smoke I to become Smoke II. Also, there's no way to know if I was even close or not...so I could try the entire process again only to end up with nada.

If there are hints and tips hidden around in game that I have missed, that'd be great. But I haven't seen anything so far that would point you in the right direction so you aren't just winging it to see what works.

**apious1** · 02-18-2008, 02:17 PM

**Pecky** · 02-18-2008, 02:29 PM

You might want to try using the code tags for that. Atleast it would preserve your spacing.

**MysticTheurge** · 02-18-2008, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by jjflanigan

If we assume that it is equally likely to "guess" any of the combinations for a tier 3 upgrade and have it be the "right one"...that's a whole lot guesswork involved...Any of the 6 focuses, any of the 3 gems and either of the 2 essences could be the special upgrade I'd need to perform at tier 3 to unlock the potential in the item.

I don't know. So far only the focuses have mattered, so I'd stick with that for now.

Eladrin's also pretty strongly hinted that paraelement + pos/neg isn't in the system.

Which means you're left with four possibilities:

Smoke + Air
Smoke + Fire
Smoke + Water
Smoke + Earth

I can see a few possibilities there already. Smoke + Fire, as I said, could make something incendiary cloud-ish. Smoke + Earth could make something cloudkill-ish.

If I were you, I'd go with one of those.

**apious1** · 02-18-2008, 02:33 PM

One more thing, if you put all of the current Tier 1 upgrades into a spread sheet and sort it by Gem Type, then Essence Type, then Focus Type you will see a patern of sorts. For instance, all Gem Type: Dominion + Essence Type: Ethereal are Lore (i.e. Fire, Electric, etc) items while the contrast is Gem Type: Dominion + Essence Type: Material which are all Guard (i.e. Fire, Electric, etc) items, e.g. Lore for Ethereal and Guard for Material. That is just on items, here is a better contrast:
Focus Type | Gem Type | Essence Type
Air | Dominion | Ethereal
Creates Caster Weapon - Greater Magnetism VI

Focus Type | Gem Type | Essence Type
Air | Dominion | Material
Creates Melee Weapon - Shocking Burst

I used this logic to determine that using the different Gems for each upgrade would result in a tier 3 upgrade.

**Wulf_Ratbane** · 02-18-2008, 02:34 PM

I'm not sure I am following you apious1. I'm not sure how your recipes would actually go into the altar.

Another question from the ignorant... Surely someone has tested this:

--------------
Known:
FOCUS + GEM + ESSENCE + Shard of Supreme Power + Shavarath High Energy Cell = IMBUED SHARD OF SUPREME POWER.

Question:
FOCUS + GEM + ESSENCE + Imbued Shard of Supreme Power + Shavarath High Energy Cell = ???
--------------

And another:

Known:
Imbued Shard of Supreme Power + Green Steel item + Shavarath High Energy Cell = "Supreme" Green Steel item

It appears there are still 2 open spots in the altar. Can you put in two more Imbued Shards, or +1 shard (total of 2 shards) and +1 energy cell (total of 2 energy cells)?
--------------

As I said I am doing my best to keep up to date on the testing that's been done so far. I'm relying mostly on Inkdrop's spreadsheet to see what has been tested so far, but only the Green Steel tab contains data on "Tried and Failed" combinations.

Nothing I have read (or suggested myself...) appears to follow the sort of logical progression I would expect the Supreme quasi- and para- recipes to follow.

**Ilandrya** · 02-18-2008, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by juniorpfactors

NEW The following green steel raid loot effects have been changed as follows. Any items that already have these effects will update to the new ones automatically:
Acid, Electricity, Fire, and Cold Absorption 5% now absorb 10%.
Acid, Electricity, Fire, and Cold Absorption 10% now absorb 15%.
Weapons with Good Burst, Evil Burst, Good Blast, and Evil Blast will now bypass appropriate damage reduction properly and will have the holy or unholy particle effects on them. In addition, the blasts now do damage on criticals and additional damage on natural 20's.
Acid Blast, Shocking Blast, Flaming Blast, and Icy Blast now have their proper elemental particle effects. In addition these effects now do damage on criticals and additional damage on natural 20's.

Where did you get this info?

**jjflanigan** · 02-18-2008, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by MysticTheurge

I don't know. So far only the focuses have mattered, so I'd stick with that for now.

Eladrin's also pretty strongly hinted that paraelement + pos/neg isn't in the system.

Which means you're left with four possibilities:

Smoke + Air
Smoke + Fire
Smoke + Water
Smoke + Earth

I can see a few possibilities there already. Smoke + Fire, as I said, could make something incendiary cloud-ish. Smoke + Earth could make something cloudkill-ish.

If I were you, I'd go with one of those.

Yeah, the problem stems from all of them being "logical"

If you blow on a fire that is smoking, you can normally build it back up to become more intense. Obviously tossing more fire in there would increase it. If you poured water over it, it could possibly make a large amount of steam, but that would normally totally extinguish the fire. And earth would smother it out completely. That makes me think that Air or Fire would be the best chance for "Smoke II" as the other two options seem to completely change aspect of the item (i.e. steam from water or ...well, not sure with earth since it would basically stop the fire and smoke).

I'll end up picking one once I can get enough large ingredients to try...I'll try to do some research / thinking to see if I can come up with one that will make the most "sense", but it will most likely come down to which one I get the ingredients to make first

**juniorpfactors** · 02-18-2008, 02:36 PM

todays release notes

**UtherSRG** · 02-18-2008, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ilandrya

Where did you get this info?

These were copied from today's Weekly Development Activities. You can find the post here.

**apious1** · 02-18-2008, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Wulf Ratbane

I'm not sure I am following you apious1. I'm not sure how your recipes would actually go into the altar.

**MysticTheurge** · 02-18-2008, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by jjflanigan

I'll end up picking one once I can get enough large ingredients to try...I'll try to do some research / thinking to see if I can come up with one that will make the most "sense", but it will most likely come down to which one I get the ingredients to make first

For me, it's largely going to be a question of what third tier ability, rather than what third tier combo-ability, I want.

That way, if I end up with a combo-ability, great. If not, I've still got an item I want.

**Endrik** · 02-18-2008, 02:43 PM

(Standard): Altar of Invasion success with Shavarath Shard Formulation! Consumed: Shavarath Low Energy Cell, Cloudy Gem of Opposition, Inferior Focus of Air, Diluted Ethereal Essence. Created: Shard of Power. Shard of Power becomes Shard of Power.

(Standard): Altar of Invasion success with Shavarath Transformation! Consumed: Shavarath Low Energy Cell, Shard of Power. Created: Green Steel Goggles. Green Steel Goggles becomes Lieutenant Green Steel Goggles of Resistance (Reflex).

I guess I'll make it Air/Air/Air just to see what happens... *sigh* back to farming.

**Wulf_Ratbane** · 02-18-2008, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by apious1

Ok. That's what I thought.

Although presumably, since we're talking about a Level II Upgrade (Para-II or Quasi-II), your second upgrade can't be Air. It would have to be something else to mix.

And in which case you are saying the only way to get a Para-II or Quasi-II special out of the third tier is to make sure you use one of each of the Gem Types at each stage, which means careful planning and a lot less flexibility in combos. (Which is reasonable.)

**Ilandrya** · 02-18-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Eladrin

A weapon with, say, "Magma I" on it at Tier Two can be upgraded to "Magma II" at Tier Three.

Hmmm... you said "There's still one thing that people haven't yet discovered regarding upgrading Para or Quasi elemental combinations."

Heres my thought on what this may mean, and this is just a hypothesis.

If you went:

1) earth/fire and got magma at the second upgrade, you will note that your first affinity is listed as earth
2) fire/earth and got magma, you will note that your first affinity is listed as fire

If you add fire for the third upgrade on the first example, that again combines with the first affinity of earth, and maybe you get magma II.
If you add earth for the third upgrade on the second example, that combines with the first affinity of fire, and maybe you get magma II.

So when looking at para/quasi combinations, you want to look at the first affinity to determine what you should add at the third level.

A few other things I'm interested in finding out:

I'm interested to see if my earlier hypothesis on negating the taint of green steel items by using the stone of change to alter the items from green steel to adamantine works.

I know that in some cases, weapons and accessories differ in what they get from the second tier "bonus effect". I'm wondering if the devs took into account on weapons that some characters don't melee. For example, casters use scepters purely for the bonuses to their casting abilities. I'm hoping third tier bonuses, at least in regard to green steel scepters, have taken into account that attack based bonuses don't do anything for non melee types.

Why some items get "Supreme Tyrant, Great Commander" for a title etc at corresponding altars and others don't get this title. I'm wondering if this is a display bug, cuz I'm not seeing any real rhyme or reason to it.

If the devs will create an altar outside the raid for people to do the upgrading they have been having to do in the raid. I'm finding a lot of people are not patient with others when others need to combine/upgrade but they don't. Some people are on time constraints, and some people have valid health issues which lead to impatience, so I think this may be an issue that should be addressed. People shouldn't be feeling pressured here.

**Mad_Bombardier** · 02-18-2008, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ilandrya

Hmmm... you said "There's still one thing that people haven't yet discovered regarding upgrading Para or Quasi elemental combinations."

Heres my thought on what this may mean, and this is just a hypothesis.

If you went:

1) earth/fire and got magma at the second upgrade, you will note that your first affinity is listed as earth
2) fire/earth and got magma, you will note that your first affinity is listed as fire

If you add fire for the third upgrade on the first example, that again combines with the first affinity of earth, and maybe you get magma II.
If you add earth for the third upgrade on the second example, that combines with the first affinity of fire, and maybe you get magma II.

So when looking at para/quasi combinations, you want to look at the first affinity to determine what you should add at the third level.

That's how I was reading it, too. But, in a way, that's silly. Fire Affinity has already combined with Earth to make Magma "I". Magma should now be the dominant property. Why should Fire Affinity again combine with more Earth? Unless Affinity is the key factor in the whole process and it is applied to all other upgrades. That certainly didn't happen with Shade's Neg/Pos/Pos accessory. The second Pos didn't grant a bonus effect (and assumingly didn't mix with the Negative Energy Affinity.)

**Myrdinn** · 02-18-2008, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier

That's how I was reading it, too. But, in a way, that's silly. Fire Affinity has already combined with Earth to make Magma "I". Magma should now be the dominant property. Why should Fire Affinity again combine with more Earth? Unless Affinity is the key factor in the whole process and it is applied to all other upgrades. That certainly didn't happen with Shade's Neg/Pos/Pos accessory. The second Pos didn't grant a bonus effect (and assumingly didn't mix with the Negative Energy Affinity.)

Then what about using the same as the affinity?

Like fire + earth and fire again to keep fire affinity to its maximum?

**Ilandrya** · 02-18-2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier

That's how I was reading it, too. But, in a way, that's silly. Fire Affinity has already combined with Earth to make Magma "I". Magma should now be the dominant property. Why should Fire Affinity again combine with more Earth? Unless Affinity is the key factor in the whole process and it is applied to all other upgrades. That certainly didn't happen with Shade's Neg/Pos/Pos accessory. The second Pos didn't grant a bonus effect (and assumingly didn't mix with the Negative Energy Affinity.)

I agree that the concept didn't work with Shade's example. But, not every third tier results in a bonus effect. I think in the case of opposing forces... neg/pos, earth/air, fire/water this creates a kind of balance at the second level which may prevent it from receiving a bonus at the third. Or, perhaps, it's necessary to add a third type which is of a different nature.

In other words, when dealing with items that have "balanced" effects at the second level:

1)pos/neg: your third affinity has to be an element, and combines with the pos (first affinity) for the third upgrade
2)neg/pos: your third affinity has to be an element, and combines with the neg
3)earth/air: your third affinity has to be a energy (pos/neg) and combines with the earth
4)air/earth: your third affinity has to be energy, and combines with the air
5)fire/water: your third affinity has to be energy, and combines with the fire
6)water/fire: your third affinity has to be energy, and combines with the water

I supect if any one of the above results in a bonus effect at third level, all of them will, while:

1)pos/neg with either energy type for third will result in nothing at third level
2)neg/pos with either energy type for third will result in nothing at third level

Ditto for other balances of earth/air, air/earth, fire/water, water/fire when the third affinity is either of the first two.

Just what I suspect... not proven yet.

Edit: There are four elemental affinities, and I think that as long as you add a different elemental focus at tier three than what you had used at tier one and tier two on a balanced item, you should get a third tier bonus.

earth/air w/ either water or fire
air/earth w/ either water or fire
fire/water w/ either earth or air
water/fire w/ either earth or air

This won't work where energies are concerned because there are only two energies, neg and pos, and both were used for the "existential stalemate" balance bonus.

**Dworkin_of_Amber** · 02-18-2008, 03:37 PM

Ok, I just finished a big update to Altar of Invasion and Altar of Subjugation.
I have gone back and re-marked all of the Confirmed, Suspected, and Unknowns, using the best information I can gather, and cross-referencing with Cambo's post, as well as both of the Google Spreadsheet. If there is anything marked incorrectly PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I am keeping a master-copy of the information off-site (in Excel), and updating the Wiki from my Excel sheet to try to ensure the best accuracy possible.

**Myrdinn** · 02-18-2008, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ilandrya

I agree that the concept didn't work with Shade's example. But, not every third tier results in a bonus effect. I think in the case of opposing forces... neg/pos, earth/air, fire/water this creates a kind of balance at the second level which may prevent it from receiving a bonus at the third. Or, perhaps, it's necessary to add a third type which is of a different nature.

In other words, when dealing with items that have "balanced" effects at the second level:

1)pos/neg: your third affinity has to be an element, and combines with the pos (first affinity) for the third upgrade
2)neg/pos: your third affinity has to be an element, and combines with the neg
3)earth/air: your third affinity has to be a energy (pos/neg) and combines with the earth
4)air/earth: your third affinity has to be energy, and combines with the air
5)fire/water: your third affinity has to be energy, and combines with the fire
6)water/fire: your third affinity has to be energy, and combines with the water

I supect if any one of the above results in a bonus effect at third level, all of them will, while:

1)pos/neg with either energy type for third will result in nothing at third level
2)neg/pos with either energy type for third will result in nothing at third level

ditto for other balances of earth/air, air/earth, fire/water, water/fire when the third affinity is either of the first two.

Just what I suspect... not proven yet.

Not proven, but exactly what i get in mind, and has the most potentiel from here on

So I could suggest a air + earth + positive for a balance with lightning

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