Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Zaodon]

Tier 2 upgrades make 21 combos: 6 pure, 12 para/quasi, and 3 special.

Pure = Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Pos, Neg
Para/Quasi = Smoke, Ash, Magma, etc.
Special = BoLaS, Tempered, Existential Stalemate

Using those descriptions, here is a basic formulae for Tier 3: (Tier 2 Combo) + ? = (Tier 3).

So, draw this table:

Pure
====
* Use a simple shard with the same element from first two upgrades.

Fire I + Fire = Fire II
Water I +Water = Water II
Earth I + Earth = Earth II
Air I + Air = Air II
Pos I + Pos = Pos II
Neg I + Neg = Neg II

Para/Quasi Upgrades:
================
* Create a Tier 3 supershard with the same two elements from first two upgrades. Focii order doesn't matter. Gem/Essence doesn't matter.

Smoke I + Smoke = Smoke II
Ice I + Ice = Ice II
Magma I + Magma = Magma II
Ooze I + Ooze = Ooze II

Lightning I + Lightning = Lightning II
Vacuum I + Vacuum = Vacuum II
Mineral I + Mineral = Mineral II
Dust I + Dust = Dust II
Radiance I + Radiance = Radiance II
Ash I + Ash = Ash II
Steam I + Steam = Steam II
Salt I + Salt = Salt II

Special Upgrades: (Special means OPPOSITE - don't normally exist in D&D)
================================================== ====
* Create a Tier 3 supershard with the OPPOSITE two elements from first two upgrades. Focii order doesn't matter. Gem/Essence doesn't matter.

Balance of Land and Sky + Tempered = (?)
Tempered + Balance of Land and Sky = (?)
Existential Stalemate + Existential Stalemate = Concordant Opposition

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Not sure if everyone knows it but the marketplace event drops include large ingredients. Guildy got 3 from one spawn night before last. Hopefully we can all gather a bunch this weekend for some more tests.

Ingredients drop on sets of the same type: one large, one medium and one small, but always the same type at once. I picked up three ingredients a few nights ago (and no, it wasn't ninja lootz, I was standing in the marketplace on my own and two devils spawned and luckily both my destructions hit).

Garth

[Missing_Minds]

IIRC, some ice flensers show up in Ghosts of Perdition too at some point don't they?

You are correct, and by the same turn about, LotD on Chothulotoungegonebeholdereyedude side as well. I knew I was forgetting where. Emm... there is a quest in the 3rd litany set that has them as well, but I forget which as that set of quests is hardly ever run save for the last.

[Omni]

[Borror0]

On the contrary, it would mean folks wouldn't be able to figure out if they are on the right path or not when extra ingredients appear in their inventory.

Makes much more ingrediants though.

[jakeelala]

Took two shards of powermer, and 24 ingredimients, and seems... the same as going say fire/fire/fire for incineratimion. it better do twice as much damanage or somemathing to be worth it, grrr....

oh well, are VERY nice dps weapamon any way.

Pos/Dominion/Material
Air/Dominion/Material
Air/Dominion/Material + Pos/Dominion/Material (Air shard in first for sure into crafting device, got lightnaming instead of holy blast as hoping)

Can you combine 2 teir 3 shards ie pos/dom/mat + pos/dom/mat to get a holy blast like you were looking for?

[Jaywade]

very rarelamally ice flensers do some close range melee attack that can freeze target in block of ice. kargon only ever see in tempest spine ice flensermer twice and once on othermer ice flensamer cant remembamer where.

seen it happen in invaders...and in thrneal .....

[Borror0]

Can you combine 2 teir 3 shards ie pos/dom/mat + pos/dom/mat to get a holy blast like you were looking for?

You would only need one +/D/M Shard of Supreme Power to do that, but you'd not get Lightning Strike.

[Zaodon]

You would only need one +/D/M Shard of Supreme Power to do that, but you'd not get Lightning Strike.

But you can do:
(+/D/M) + (A/D/M), get Good Burst, and Lightning Strike.

[jakeelala]

anyone tried combining 3 supreme power shards yet?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

The dominate focus of the shard is supposed to contradict the first focus. If it matched the first focus, it wouldn't recreate the aspect.

Indeed, after giving it a lot of thought and (re)checking all the upgrades we've seen - this idea has a lot going for it.

As a crafter, I gotta say I don't like it though, because it means that in order to get 3rd tier bonus effects you are restricted in putting the 1st and 2nd upgrade in 'reverse order' of dominance e.g. my khopesh I luckily put Pos/Earth/Pos+Earth and it worked because Earth trumped Pos on 3rd tier and Pos+Earth combined. If I had put Earth/Pos/Pos+Earth then it might not have worked if your theory holds. I do not believe the devs would have wanted to restrict our options this way, but you never know.

I do prefer the theory that 1st and 2nd tier upgrades do not affect 3rd tier bonus effects, and we just haven't yet discovered which upgrade to put on (again, Tempered is my favorite at the moment) but, at the moment, both ideas are consistent with the evidence so neither cannot be ruled out.

We will not determine which is correct until someone tries another upgrade that contradicts one - so, in the meantime, carry on speculating... :sigh:

Garth

[Zaodon]

Indeed, after giving it a lot of thought and (re)checking all the upgrades we've seen - this idea has a lot going for it.

As a crafter, I gotta say I don't like it though, because it means that in order to get 3rd tier bonus effects you are restricted in putting the 1st and 2nd upgrade in 'reverse order' of dominance e.g. my khopesh I luckily put Pos/Earth/Pos+Earth and it worked because Earth trumped Pos on 3rd tier and Pos+Earth combined. If I had put Earth/Pos/Pos+Earth then it might not have worked if your theory holds. I do not believe the devs would have wanted to restrict our options this way, but you never know.

I do prefer the theory that 1st and 2nd tier upgrades do not affect 3rd tier bonus effects, and we just haven't yet discovered which upgrade to put on (again, Tempered is my favorite at the moment) but, at the moment, both ideas are consistent with the evidence so neither cannot be ruled out.

We will not determine which is correct until someone tries another upgrade that contradicts one - so, in the meantime, carry on speculating... :sigh:

Garth

ARGH!

That was disproven with this SUCCESS:
============================
1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice

Focus: Air/Water/(Air+Water)
Gems: Dom/Dom/(Dom+Dom)
Essence: Mat/Mat/(Mat+Mat)

Result = Freezing Ice

[Eladrin]

anyone tried combining 3 supreme power shards yet?

No recipes require more than two supreme power shards to be combined.

[Zaodon]

Eldarin,
Any comment on this post: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...postcount=2341

Feel free to be as cryptic as you want.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

ARGH!

LOL OK calm down! Forgot about that one.

I'm more than happy to go back to what I thought a few days ago which you appear to agree with. Was just trying to keep an open mind, especially considering the number of times I've been wrong...

Edit: I re-read your picture - I don't agree that shard order matters. I'm far more inclined to go with the dominant shard theory.

Garth

[Zaodon]

LOL OK calm down! Forgot about that one.

I'm more than happy to go back to what I thought a few days ago which you appear to agree with. Was just trying to keep an open mind, especially considering the number of times I've been wrong...

Edit: I re-read your picture - I don't agree that shard order matters. I'm far more inclined to go with the dominant shard theory.

Garth

So far, order has determined which Essense/Focii/Gem appears as the descriptor of the combined shard - it has always inherited it from the first shard in the combination.

I'm willing to change my mind if an exception arises, but so far, first shard = what Essence/Focii/Gem is lised on supershard.

[Ilandrya]

That was disproven with this SUCCESS:
============================
1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice

Focus: Air/Water/(Air+Water)
Gems: Dom/Dom/(Dom+Dom)
Essence: Mat/Mat/(Mat+Mat)

Freezing Ice

Hmmm... ok. I'll buy that. I'll have to admit though, given that some things have have been buggy, it is hard to know if when a theory fails, if it's due to a bug or not, which has me second guessing whether a single fail invalidates any theory. Eladrin stepped up and said in the case of land and sky, that wasn't a bug, which means that the upgrade path was in fact done incorrectly and the earlier theory wasn't correct. What about this one? Everything else has fit into my theory so it's hard to know if this single fail for my theory is a bug, or does it in fact completely invalidate the theory? I think unless a dev steps up on every failed theory and says it isn't a bug that caused the theory to fail, without several fails of any given theory, it's difficult to rely on a single fail as proof that any theory is incorrect.

Grrrrrrr.......... I am frustrated... which is probably bringing a smile to the dev's faces atm. D&D players tend to be creative thinkers who often think outside the box, and this puzzle is testing us well. A little more challenging than we are used to from DDO thus far, but for those who enjoy a good mental challenge, a very nice thing to see indeed. Complicated by the difficulty in obtaining large ingredients to test with furthers this.



Thus far it does seem that the "dominate focus" of any dual imbued shard can be safely assumed by reading the aspect/balance description ... the first one listed has consistantly been the "dominant" focus listed on the shard. However, not sure at this point if a "dominate" focus has a bearing, but if it does, at least we know how it's determined on the shard. I would assume though it has some kind of bearing, or there would be no purpose to listing a "dominate" instead of just listing the aspect/balance created.

Hmmm... for those that have a successful "four focus enchantment" item, do you recall whether you put your item or the dual shard into the altar first?

Maybe the dominate focus of the dual shard has to be put in to the altar in a certain order with the item dependant upon the way the focuses appear on the item. For example if your item has earth then fire = magma maybe putting your earth dominate shard after the item would make it magma II, but if you had say done fire then earth on your item, you'd need to put your earth dominate shard before the item in the altar so that it always comes out either a + b + a or b + a + b where the middle focus is paired with the two end focuses to create the two aspects.

This would be less limiting and would be in keeping with ANY "I" being possible to be upgraded to a "II"... could it be that simple? They do list the element/energy "dominate" focus in the middle of the name on the shard... maybe that is a hint just as the order the focuses were listed in aspect/balance descriptions were a hint as to the focus that would end up being listed on the dual imbued shard.

[Zaodon]

Hmmm... for those that have a successful "four focus enchantment" item, do you recall whether you put your item or the dual shard into the altar first?

Think about that for a minute.

Has the order of ingredients in the altar made a difference anywhere yet? Would that make things nearly impossible to figure out? Would a developer really code that?

I'd play the Lotto before I'd bet on that.

(No offense intended to any Lotto players out there... )

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

So far, order has determined which Essense/Focii/Gem appears as the descriptor of the combined shard - it has always inherited it from the first shard in the combination.

I'm willing to change my mind if an exception arises, but so far, first shard = what Essence/Focii/Gem is lised on supershard.

Raidon posted here and here that the 2nd shard (Earth) was picked and not the first (Air). This supports the dominant focus theory.

I can attest, from witnessing two multi-shard tier 3 upgrades, and doing one myself, that you don't make mistakes when putting shards in the altar - you double/triple check each step. If Raidon said he put the shards in that order, then he put them in that order.

Garth

[jakeelala]

No recipes require more than two supreme power shards to be combined.

ok, has anyone tried combining 2 imbued shards or 2 imbued great shards for better effects?