Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Missing_Minds]

very rarelamally ice flensers do some close range melee attack that can freeze target in block of ice. kargon only ever see in tempest spine ice flensermer twice and once on othermer ice flensamer cant remembamer where.

Tempest Spine, Prison of the Planes, Invaders, Threnal... those are where I can remember ice flensers off the top of my head.

[MysticTheurge]

i was able to make the Supreme +EE and the Supreme -OM. I tried to combine the 2 with an energy cell and it failed.

Good to know! Thanks for testing.

[Gol]

I recently tried -OM/+EE/(+EE/-OM). i was able to make the Supreme +EE and the Supreme -OM. I tried to combine the 2 with an energy cell and it failed. My next attempt will be to make a -EE supreme shard, which i know will combine into the final Shard but im not sure whether the final combination will result in concordant opposotion. Just to add more information, i tried it twice swapping the order pos/neg/cell then neg/pos/cell.

Wow... Perhaps the 2 shards must have at least 1 component in common?

[Missing_Minds]

Wow... Perhaps the 2 shards must have at least 1 component in common?

I'm guessing the non elemental foci must be the same.

[Inkblack]

Extending Gol's post, with his original text in white:

UPGRADED FULLY:

Weapon
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Earth Dominion Material (aspect of mineral)
3 Earth Opposition Ethereal + Positive Opposition Ethereal = Earth Opposition Ethereal / Mineral

Item
1 negative escalation ethereal (negative affinity)
2 positive escalation ethereal (existential stalemate)
3 positive escalation ethereal + negative escalation ethereal = positive escalation ethereal / Existential Stalemate

Weapon
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Air Dominion Material (aspect of lightning)
3 Air Dominion Material + Positive Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Lightning

Weapon
1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice


DID NOT UPGRADE FULLY:

Item
1 earth material escalation (earth affinity)
2 air ethereal escalation (balance of land and sky)
3 air ethereal escalation + earth ethereal escalation = earth ethereal escalation / Land And Sky

So why did four of these combinations work and one did not?

Preliminary pass at elemental dominance (if it exists):

• Earth
• Air
• Water (below air, possibly below positive and/or negative)
• Positive (below air)
• Negative (below positive)

• Fire's order is unknown

Ink

Edit 1: Added weapon/item types
Edit 2: Reformatted to make it quotable

[Falcion]

Well Congrats guys on the 2 new items. Looks like my theory is blown thou... thanks to that Freezing Ice Short Sword.
Short sword had Air Affinity/Ice plus Shard with Air Affinity/Ice = Freezing Ice -->2 airs put together Blows Falcion's Theory

Oh well back to the drawing board. Hopefully in about 7 more large components I can add to the knowledge base as well but I'm on timer now my plan is going after some +45 HP gloves w/ Concordant Opposition.

Still curios why we have failures on the land and sky thing. Do we have screen shots of this failed attempt? I've seen screen shots of the passed attempts but don't recall if I had seen shots of the land and sky attempt.

[Borror0]

2 airs put together Blows Falcion's Theory

Not totally, remember that Eladrin said "speical" upgrades were harder? Your theory might still apply to "special" upgrades.

That would explain the failure of the Balance of Earth and Sky.

[MysticTheurge]

Not totally, remember that Eladrin said "speical" upgrades were harder? Your theory might still apply to "special" upgrades.

That would explain the failure of the Balance of Earth and Sky.

Yeah, but Eladrin also said that everything you can make at second tier has an upgrade path to third tier.

If there's a dominant focus (which is seeming more and more likely) and if the dominant focus has to combine with the first tier "Affinity" then you've created a situation where some items can't be upgraded to Tier III.

[Borror0]

Yeah, but Eladrin also said that everything you can make at second tier has an upgrade path to third tier.

If there's a dominant focus (which is seeming more and more likely) and if the dominant focus has to combine with the first tier "Affinity" then you've created a situation where some items can't be upgraded to Tier III.

The idea are that these "special" upgrades (Stalemate, Balance of E&S and Tempered) are themed around a balance. Maybe that depending on the focus you used at first altar (the one giving "Affinty") taints the weapon of that focus and the dominant focus on the Shard of Supreme Power stabilises the item's balance even more. However, if the dominant focus on the shard is the same as the Affinity of the item well it breaks the very thin balance present on the capricious item.

Now, like you said, Eladrin said all item made at tier two had an upgrade at tier three. But again, he said they (Stalemate, Balance of E&S and Tempered) were special. so maybe that in one case the upgrade is the coresponding focus (Stalemate II, Balance of E&S II and Tempered II) and in the other case it's something else, making the order you took the foci matter.

[EspyLacopa]

The idea are that these "special" upgrades (Stalemate, Balance of E&S and Tempered) are themed around a balance. Maybe that depending on the focus you used at first altar (the one giving "Affinty") taints the weapon of that focus and the dominant focus on the Shard of Supreme Power stabilises the item's balance even more. However, if the dominant focus on the shard is the same as the Affinity of the item well it breaks the very thin balance present on the capricious item.

Now, like you said, Eladrin said all item made at tier two had an upgrade at tier three. But again, he said they (Stalemate, Balance of E&S and Tempered) were special. so maybe that in one case the upgrade is the coresponding focus (Stalemate II, Balance of E&S II and Tempered II) and in the other case it's something else, making the order you took the foci matter.

hmm.

Taken from Gol's Post:

DID NOT UPGRADE FULLY:
Item
1 earth material escalation (earth affinity)
2 air ethereal escalation (balance of land and sky)
3 air ethereal escalation + earth ethereal escalation = earth ethereal escalation / Land And Sky

So, for that theory to work, it means there is no such thing as a Dominant Focus. That would imply that this person actually put the two initial foci in as Earth / Air / Cell instead of the listed Air / Earth / Cell

If Dominant Foci are how it decides, then that still means that your theory is false due to the result: Half of the Land and Sky Combos cannot be upgraded to reach their full potential. (due to the revealed Earth dominance over Air). And Eladrin mentioned that they are all capable of reaching their full potential. (in this case, Balance of Land and Sky II)

[Borror0]

hmm.

Taken from Gol's Post:

DID NOT UPGRADE FULLY:
Item
1 earth material escalation (earth affinity)
2 air ethereal escalation (balance of land and sky)
3 air ethereal escalation + earth ethereal escalation = earth ethereal escalation / Land And Sky

That actually proves my point. Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough, sorry about that.

Here it failed as it had Earth Affinity and Earth Shard, it would have worked with Air Affinity and Earth focus from the Shard of Supreme Power. From my point of view, it's like there is a little more air in the item then there is of earth. By adding the little more Earth on the shard you would create a total and perfect balance.

However, if there is Earth Affinity on the item and you add Earth focus from the Shard then it breaks the Balance and you don't get acess to Balance of L&S II.

However, like I said, Eladrin only said that "An item that possesses "Balance of Land and Sky" does possess an upgrade path, it is not bugged." and "All of them can be successfully upgraded." He never said that Balance of Land and Sky would upgrade into Balance of Land and Sky II, only "does possess an upgrade". So, in that optic, you could have one partern for Earth/Air and one for Air/Earth.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Preliminary pass at elemental dominance (if it exists):

• Earth
• Air
• Water (below air, possibly below positive and/or negative)
• Positive (below air)
• Negative (below positive)

• Fire's order is unknown

I went through all of my screenshots and arranged all the elements in the order they appeared in the description (someone suggested this, not my idea) e.g. for Ice the description is always:

Aspect of Ice: This item has accumulated enough of the power of Air and Water to take on some of the special characteristics of elemental Ice.

Then set up a series of rules that enforced elemental ordering:

fire > neg
air > pos
air > fire
earth > pos
earth > fire
earth > water
air > water
earth > neg
water > pos
water > neg
(fire > water)

This gives the following order of elemental dominance:

Earth
Air
Fire
Water
Pos
Neg

(Note: Fire trumping Water is not confirmed since Tempered doesn't explicitly mention the elements, we will only know this for sure when someone puts Tempered on at tier 3)

This appears to match all of the results so far: Kargon's warhammer got Shocking Blast (Air beat Pos), the Concordant Opposition goggles got CHA skills (Pos beat Neg), Atanas' Icy shortsword got Shocking Blast (Air beat Water).

This does limit the combinations a bit - e.g. a Mineral II weapon can never have Good Blast, always Acid Blast.

We really need a few more tier 3 combinations, and for people to try different shard order, before we're sure though.

Garth

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Here it failed as it had Earth Affinity and Earth Shard, it would have worked with Air Affinity and Earth focus from the Shard of Supreme Power. From my point of view, it's like there is a little more air in the item then there is of earth. By adding the little more Earth on the shard you would create a total and perfect balance.

However, if there is Earth Affinity on the item and you add Earth focus from the Shard then it breaks the Balance and you don't get acess to Balance of L&S II.

I still don't think order for Tier 1 and Tier 2 affects the Tier 3 effect. Also I now don't believe you can control the element in the tier 3 combined shard.

However, like I said, Eladrin only said that "An item that possesses "Balance of Land and Sky" does possess an upgrade path, it is not bugged." and "All of them can be successfully upgraded." He never said that Balance of Land and Sky would upgrade into Balance of Land and Sky II, only "does possess an upgrade". So, in that optic, you could have one partern for Earth/Air and one for Air/Earth.

Yes, I think the secret to unlocking Balance of Earth and Sky tier 3 is to add something else. My current guess is Tempered (to give all four material elements in one item), and a distant second place is Existential Stalemate.

Someone needs to try EDM//ADM//(FDM+WDM).

Garth

[Inkblack]

Earth
Air
Fire
Water
Pos
Neg

Earth, Wind, and Fire ... that must be it

Ink

[Zaodon]

Originally Posted by Mavnimo
i was able to make the Supreme Pos/Eth/Esc and the Supreme Neg/Opp/Mat. I tried to combine the 2 with an energy cell and it failed.

Hmmmm....
Can't combine Eth+Mat on Tier 3.

Furthermore:

Got Super Power:
=============
1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Earth Dominion Material (aspect of mineral)
3 Earth Opposition Ethereal + Positive Opposition Ethereal = Earth Opposition Ethereal / Mineral

Focus: Pos/Earth/(Earth+Pos)
Gems: Dom/Dom/(Opp+Opp)
Essence: Mat/Mat/(Eth+Eth)

1 negative escalation ethereal (negative affinity)
2 positive escalation ethereal (existential stalemate)
3 positive escalation ethereal + negative escalation ethereal = positive escalation ethereal / Existential Stalemate

Focus: Neg/Pos/(Pos+Neg)
Gems: Esc/Esc/(Esc+Esc)
Essence: Eth/Eth/(Eth+Eth)

1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Air Dominion Material (aspect of lightning)
3 Air Dominion Material + Positive Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Lightning

Focus: Pos/Air/(Air+Pos)
Gems: Dom/Dom/(Dom+Dom)
Essence: Mat/Mat/(Mat+Mat)

1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice

Focus: Air/Water/(Air+Water)
Gems: Dom/Dom/(Dom+Dom)
Essence: Mat/Mat/(Mat+Mat)


DID NOT Get Super Power:
====================
1 earth material escalation (earth affinity)
2 air ethereal escalation (balance of land and sky)
3 earth ethereal escalation + air ethereal escalation = earth ethereal escalation / Land And Sky

Focus: Earth/Air/(Earth+Air)
Gems: Esc/Esc/(Esc+Esc)
Essence: Mat/Eth/(Eth+Eth)

====================

Result:
The one that failed, crossed Material and Ethereal in Tiers 1 + 2. Ethereal + Material mixing seems to be the key.

Keep same = get super tier 3 power.
Different = no super tier 3 power.

So, good combos are:
================
Mat+Mat+(Mat+Mat)
Mat+Mat+(Eth+Eth)
Eth+Eth+(Mat+Mat)
Eth+Eth+(Eth+Eth)

[Borror0]

I still don't think order for Tier 1 and Tier 2 affects the Tier 3 effect. Also I now don't believe you can control the element in the tier 3 combined shard.

In my theory, it doesn't matter as long as there is another way to upgrade it, say adding Tempered to BoLS like you pointed out.

[Turial]

That actually proves my point. Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough, sorry about that.

Here it failed as it had Earth Affinity and Earth Shard, it would have worked with Air Affinity and Earth focus from the Shard of Supreme Power. From my point of view, it's like there is a little more air in the item then there is of earth. By adding the little more Earth on the shard you would create a total and perfect balance.

However, if there is Earth Affinity on the item and you add Earth focus from the Shard then it breaks the Balance and you don't get acess to Balance of L&S II.

However, like I said, Eladrin only said that "An item that possesses "Balance of Land and Sky" does possess an upgrade path, it is not bugged." and "All of them can be successfully upgraded." He never said that Balance of Land and Sky would upgrade into Balance of Land and Sky II, only "does possess an upgrade". So, in that optic, you could have one partern for Earth/Air and one for Air/Earth.

The other thing to note is that if you must balance the first foci with the one listed on the final shard you are infact making 3 combinations of a aspect. In the case of this below:

Earth
Pos + mineral
Mineral shard with pos listed

You have 3 mineral combinations; 1) from foci 1 and 2, 2) from the foci combining on the mineral shard, and 3) from the first foci and the listed foci on the mineral shard

This means you have actually have 2 energy paths with 3 upgrades. 1 positive path and 1 earth path which combine to make a mineral path. This would explain why combination paths can be more powerful the a pure 3 tier path.

Only thing I don't like about that idea is it does restrict the items one can make when trying for a tier 3 mixed energy item. Granted its less restrictive then a dominate focus would be.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I went through all of my screenshots and arranged all the elements in the order they appeared in the description (someone suggested this, not my idea) e.g. for Ice the description is always:

Aspect of Ice: This item has accumulated enough of the power of Air and Water to take on some of the special characteristics of elemental Ice.

Nice one, Garth. That also explains why the Air + Earth shard was EEE/Balance and not dominant Air (like the others created so far). I think you're on to something.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Result:
The one that failed, crossed Material and Ethereal in Tiers 1 + 2. Ethereal + Material mixing seems to be the key.

Keep same = get super tier 3 power.
Different = no super tier 3 power.

So, good combos are:
================
Mat+Mat+(Mat+Mat)
Mat+Mat+(Eth+Eth)
Eth+Eth+(Mat+Mat)
Eth+Eth+(Eth+Eth)

I don't think it's as complicated as this. I still think you have to make sure both the gem and essence are the same. It's not as if you're going to get the effect of both shards anyway so you might as well pick what you want for your tier 3 effect (bearing in mind it's suspected some elements trump others) and then just add the other element to unlock your bonus effect, keeping the same gem/essence.

Garth

[Ilandrya]

Extending Gol's post, with his original text in white:
DID NOT UPGRADE FULLY:

Item
1 earth material escalation (earth affinity)
2 air ethereal escalation (balance of land and sky)
3 air ethereal escalation + earth ethereal escalation = earth ethereal escalation / Land And Sky

So why did four of these combinations work and one did not?

As I explained yesterday, the dominate focus on the dual shard is paired with the first focus to create the second aspect a THIRD time. In the case of the other examples, this resulted in successfully repeating the original aspect/balance. In the example that failed, it did not. Instead of creating balance of land and sky I and II, it created balance of land and sky and earth aspect, because although while the shard was appropriately named and made, the combination of the dominate focus of the shard with the first focus at the altar of invasion resulted in aspect of earth, not balance of land and sky.

It's not just the dual shard that has to be named in such a way as to mirror the name of the first aspect/balance, it's ALSO that the dominate focus on the dual shard when paired with the first focus has to mirror the aspect/balance.

In other words:

focus 1 + focus 2 = apsect I
dual shard focus 3 + 4 = aspect I repeated AND dominate dual shard focus + focus 1 = apect I repeated = aspect II