Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[MysticTheurge]

If Both Tempered I and Balance I are upgraded to their respective II's by a Fire/Water shard, then I ask again: Why did they include an Earth/Air combo shard?

Possibility 1) It was easier and/or more consistent/complete to do that way. Just like we have soul gems that don't do anything yet.

Possibility 2) No one ever said that each aspect has one and only one way to be upgraded to a third tier bonus. It's possible a BoLaS shard can be combine with something other than a BoLaS item to make a third tier bonus effect.

[UtherSRG]

If Both Tempered I and Balance I are upgraded to their respective II's by a Fire/Water shard, then I ask again: Why did they include an Earth/Air combo shard?

Possibility 1) It was easier and/or more consistent/complete to do that way. Just like we have soul gems that don't do anything yet.

Possibility 2) No one ever said that each aspect has one and only one way to be upgraded to a third tier bonus. It's possible a BoLaS shard can be combine with something other than a BoLaS item to make a third tier bonus effect.

I'm coming to the opinion that it's BoLaS + Tempered = Something New, and that Tempered + BoLas = Some Other Thing New.

[Ilandrya]

Note that in the descriptions at the second upgrade:

Existential Stalemate lists positive then negative. The dual imbued shard ended up positive as the "dominate" focus of the shard.

Mineral lists earth then positive. The dual imbued shard ended up earth as the "dominate" focus of the shard.

Balance of Land and Sky lists earth then air. The dual imbued shard ended up with earth as the "dominate" focus of the shard.

I believe that the dominate focus when combining two imbued shards comes from which focus is listed first in the description of the aspect/balance after an item gets it's second upgrade.

Now note the following, where the one letter abbreviations stand for focuses only:

Concordant Opposition came about by: n,p,p (using the dominate "positive" focus on the dual shard)
Mineral "II" came about by: p,e,e (using the dominate "earth" focus on the dual shard)
Balance of Land and Sky II was tried with: e,a,e (using the dominate "earth" focus on the dual shard) which failed

You will note that in the first two cases, the dominate focus of the dual shard when combined with the affinity or first focus, creates an aspect that mirrors the first aspect. In the first example, you end up with Existential Stalemate "I" and "II", and in the second, Mineral "I" and "II".

You will note that in the latter case, the dominate focus of the dual shard when combined with the affinity or first focus creates an aspect that does NOT mirror the first aspect. In this case, it's Balance of Land and Sky and Earth Aspect, not another Balance of Land and Sky.

[Gol]

I think we're down to essentially 2 options at this point:
1) Gem and/or Essense matter and/or dominant foci exist.
2) BoLaS (and possibly Tempered) are upgraded differently.

[Mad_Bombardier]

If Both Tempered I and Balance I are upgraded to their respective II's by a Fire/Water shard, then I ask again: Why did they include an Earth/Air combo shard?

To provide another path by which to achieve Balance II (ie., Tempered + Balance also = Balance II)??? That's all I can think of at the moment.

[Missing_Minds]

Note that in the descriptions at the second upgrade:

Existential Stalemate lists positive then negative. The dual imbued shard ended up positive as the "dominate" focus of the shard.

Mineral lists earth then positive. The dual imbued shard ended up earth as the "dominate" focus of the shard.

Balance of Land and Sky lists earth then air. The dual imbued shard ended up with earth as the "dominate" focus of the shard.

I believe that the dominate focus when combining two imbued shards comes from which focus is listed first in the description of the aspect/balance after an item gets it's second upgrade.

Now note the following, where the one letter abbreviations stand for focuses only:

Concordant Opposition came about by: n,p,p (using the dominate "positive" focus on the dual shard)
Mineral "II" came about by: p,e,e (using the dominate "earth" focus on the dual shard)
Balance of Land and Sky II was tried with: e,a,e (using the dominate "earth" focus on the dual shard) which failed

You will note that in the first two cases, the dominate focus of the dual shard when combined with the affinity or first focus, creates an aspect that mirrors the first aspect. In the first example, you end up with Existential Stalemate "I" and "II", and in the second, Mineral "I" and "II".

You will note that in the latter case, the dominate focus of the dual shard when combined with the affinity or first focus creates an aspect that does NOT mirror the first aspect. In this case, it's Balance of Land and Sky and Earth Aspect, not another Balance of Land and Sky.

Ok, the first part made sence, the second part lost me. if.. I understand you correctly, are you thinking had he done it as an A E E (just due to how the last shard got powered) it may have ended up with balance II? To me this indicates there is either an order or a method to create the shards such to where the Balance II shard would have had air domainace instead.

Also, does anyone know if the alters in the shroud will actually accept soul gems or not? I doubt they'll take th 10 hd, but will they take 30 hd ones?

[Missing_Minds]

To provide another path by which to achieve Balance II (ie., Tempered + Balance also = Balance II)??? That's all I can think of at the moment.

At which point you have Shade complaining again.

[Ilandrya]

Ok, the first part made sence, the second part lost me. if.. I understand you correctly, are you thinking had he done it as an A E E (just due to how the last shard got powered) it may have ended up with balance II? To me this indicates there is either an order or a method to create the shards such to where the Balance II shard would have had air domainace instead.

Also, does anyone know if the alters in the shroud will actually accept soul gems or not? I doubt they'll take th 10 hd, but will they take 30 hd ones?

Simply put:

The dominate focus of the dual shard is combined with the affinity/first focus to create the second "aspect".

You can determine what the dominate focus of the dual shard will be by referring to what element/energy appears first in the description of "aspect of/balance of land and sky/tempered/existential stalemate.

So, you have to create the aspect/balance three times

once on your item with the first and second focus
once on your shard with the third and fourth focus
again on your item using the dominate focus on the dual shard, and the affinity/first focus

[Falcion]

Reading through the last 3 attempts 2 which succeeded and 1 of which did not I wanted to throw out another theory besides the Gem / Essence theory.

On the two items that worked they had in the item description:
Mineral Kopesh: Kopesh had: POSITIVE Energy Affinity & Mineral and was combined with a Shard of Supreme Power EARTH & Mineral
Concordant Goggles: Goggles had: NEGATIVE Energy Affinity & Existential Stalemate and was combined with Shard of Supreme Power (POSITIVE & Existential Stalemate)

What if it was the Positive and Mineral on the weapon mixing with the Earth and Mineral on the shard is what resulted in the Mineral II
Same thing with the Neg and Existential Stalemate on the goggles mixing with the Pos and Existential Stalemate on the shard that resulted in Concordant Opposition.


This could explain the recent Land and Sky failure since the goggles had Earth Affinity and Balance of L&S and the Shard of Supreme Power had (Earth & Balance of L&S) --> This combination had two Earth's with balance of L&S

Aka..
What worked:
Item (+ Mineral) plus Shard (Earth Mineral) = Mineral II
Item (- Existential Stalemate) plus Shard (+ Existential Stalemate) = Concordant Opposition
What didn’t work
Item (Earth, Existential Stalemate) plus Shard (Earth, Existential Stalemate) = nothing (tried to put two earths together)

If this is true then we do have a problem figuring out how to control the final Supreme Power Shard combination, or we have to find the dominant combinations and prepare the items properly through the first two altars.

[MysticTheurge]

Reading through the last 3 attempts 2 which succeeded and 1 of which did not I wanted to throw out another theory besides the Gem / Essence theory.

Interesting theory.

[Kargon]

[EDIT: I'm wrong about Balance of Earth and Sky, but leaving this up so Kargon can laugh at me. Sorry Eladrin for falsely accusing you of contradicting yourself!]

*point and laugh*

But in all seriousnamess... that not very fun for whoevamer discover the silly land and sky not upgramade like the othermers.

Kargon note eladrin post that an item with 'balance of land and sky' have an upgrade path, but can eladrin confirm that a combinimation of two supreme shards with 'balance of land and sky' on it can be used in SOME item's upgramade path? like othermers say, if the shard combined (and even generamated the 'land and sky' descriptimion in the shard), it had bettermer be usamable SOMEHOW, even if we not know how yet. Confirmatimion would be apprecimiated.

[Falcion]

Ok so Ilandrya I think we are on the same page... I'm just slower to post

[oronisi]

Why are people trying to overcomplicate the Balance of Land and Sky II upgrade? Has anyone tried adding JUST water to that? Or how about JUST fire?

EARTH, WIND & FIRE sound familiar? Yea? Maybe like 'Running With the Devils' and other musical references in this mod.

Land, Air, and Sea (water) also sounds like a likely combination.

I would personally exhaust the simpler options before wasting 24 large ingredients on a tempered II shard.

[Borror0]

Reading through the last 3 attempts 2 which succeeded and 1 of which did not I wanted to throw out another theory besides the Gem / Essence theory.

I had noticed the same thing, but nyour explanation makes more sense than mine, hehe. (I had only seen that thetier two was "Negative" and the last upgrade done to the Existential Stalemate goggles was a "Negative" focused shard. So saying that the focus from the Supreme shard would interact with the Affinity of the item makes a lot of sense to me.)

[Grimshadow]

I honestly am terrified to even try anything now with the tier 3 failures I thought we proved would work. I have already done 4 items that are junked: One was the +4 wisdom ES goggles I actually made correct but now I have to wait till Mod 7 for it to be fixed due to another Turbine mistake; another was accidentally equiped while trying to mail it, why not have a safety measure like end rewards ask if you want it to bind to you? Another was misinformation on the web for a +6 int khopesh, don't even wanna talk about the last one. I have already played enough games where we were paying to Beta test content that was released to soon.

Do you honestly think that it grows a game by:
Holding back info.
Giving vague replies of little value.
Letting people fail over and again with little to show for there efforts.
Having people too afraid to even try creating something new.

And honestly, kudos to the few people that continue to spend all their time and plat on trying to get the right upgrades for the normal players. The forge was fun for a couple weeks, but now everyone I talk to isn't going to spend 1 large ingredient on something that won't work. I spent the last week running 2 characters to ransack for 2 large horns and 4 large ingredients?!?! And its not just me, there are so many alts running the shroud now I can't even tell what server I am on half the time. I think exploring new things IS fun, but you should never penalize people for doing so.

Don't rant w/o solutions, that's what I always told my employees, so here goes...

1) Make a way to un-assemble your botched or miscoded item to get your ingredients back. (Even if not all of them, 1/2 returned is still better than nothing.)
2) Give them a vision of their creation before items are actually consumed. (Hrmm, thats not what i wanted to make..AHH I forgot to...instead of..Wait that's not what I wanted...ugh 2 weeks of farming a stupid raid zone for a +5will save or +% Healing & Infinite Death)
3)RECIPE BOOK! So many ways to make it work and be fun..Put Recipes or pieces of them, like Tome page sets, in random chests of any high level area. Why not in Shroud only? Because we want all people to get in on the interaction, not just raiders. Take that a step further, why not have ingredients also drop randomly in any chest or maybe from mobs in other zones. People who enjoy all the content shouldn't have to be Shroud bound to get something nice, after all, you need to go inside to use the altars anyways.
4)How about rewarding people who make the game better for all of us, including the employees. (Please no more candy canes.) Imagine if the few select who didn't give up, weren't here. The people who have 3-10 favor capped characters, the people that started and spend hours a day updating forums like this one. The GM's who actually care, and there are some good ones. The Role-Players who really enjoy helping people.

Leftfield

Great job on marketplace event, looks amazing. Is there a way to have it at different times so people who are in certain time zones or work at that hour every night aren't excluded? I hear some folks have gotten to loot some nice things for just being in the right place. grats!

And finally, Gary Gygax rest in peace, I hope the games does something to honor his memory.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Why are people trying to overcomplicate the Balance of Land and Sky II upgrade? Has anyone tried adding JUST water to that? Or how about JUST fire?

EARTH, WIND & FIRE sound familiar?

Land, Air, and Sea (water) also sounds like a likely combination.

Yes, Earth, Wind, & Fire and Navy SEALs for everyone!

[Inkblack]

I've written and deleted a rant four times now. I don't think anyone will be terribly disappointed by my use of the backspace key.

I do have one question: Is crafting in other MMO's this complicated? This is my first and only MMO, I honestly don't know.

Ink

[Tallyn]

I've written and deleted a rant four times now. I don't think anyone will be terribly disappointed by my use of the backspace key.

I do have one question: Is crafting in other MMO's this complicated? This is my first and only MMO, I honestly don't know.

Ink

Yes and no.

This is not true crafting per se. We are creating our own Raid items, that have the potential to be better than other raid items out there. I've seen other MMOs be just as frustrating when dealing with rare/powerful items like this.

Standard crafting, which I am guessing will come along later, should probably be a lot less complicated. Other MMOs, when you craft standard items, you generally know what you need, and where/how to get it. However, for those of us doing end game content, standard crafting is not what we're looking for to polish up our main character

[Borror0]

Is crafting in other MMO's this complicated?

Don't forget that this only the prototype and that the more complete as yet to be introduced.

I know that a few of my friends told me that they'll wait for me to be online to ever craft.

[MysticTheurge]

I have to say, while this period of discovery is fun, collectively, to participate in, it must absolutely suck to be the guy who expends 24 large ingredients to find out that BaLoS/BaLoS doesn't work.

And that, I think, probably means there something wrong with this system/information release methodology.