Diehard! A near immortal evasive Warforged Battlemage

[Whulffer]

I'm glad Aspenor expressed his opinion, I've felt the same way too, and I'm sick of it.

Dude, In the past 2 mod I've asked for GH maybe 3 times. If your guys NEEDS Gh enough to make some one else use his sp he intends to use for killing things to give you gh, get yourself a planar gird or rebuild. I don't have a planar gird myself.

As for the double standard, it seems imo to be the plays who on their casters hand out GH who expect it in return on their fighters. The reality is though I never asked for it on my fighters, and I don't want to waste the sp on my caster. When I caste haste, i let the group know a second or two before I caste it. No complaints.

I' posting there because I'm sick of weak whiny players who cant do as well without hassling another player for the buffs they are counting on! Which they have no business counting on.
Ohh again, none of my fighters ever ask for haste, i let the resident caster know though when I'm running low on haste potions.

As my final though. If a player build his toon to destroy things, then let him do what his build is intended to do. But please don't interfere or ask him to do any different. If he gives you a buff, be happy, but don't ever expect it.

Diehard looks intersting. The saves are solid. The skills look great, but im conufsed by this
UMD 34 (19base+6CHA+3Goldencartouche+2Rogueactionboost+4G H)
Balance 40 (16Base+5DEX+15C06 Boots+4GH)
OL 39 (8Base+5DEX+13GlovesofEscape+2Rogueactionboost+7Lo ckpicks+4GH)
Jump 41+ (4Base+9STR+30JumpSpell+4GH)

What is this +5 dex in the balance and the +6cha in umd? I don't understand how this adds up.
The hp looks sweet, but I wouldn't include the GH in your statement of hp, because they can be removed quick in a fight and then you cant reconstruct those hp. I'd be concerned about getting dispelled, but other then that im sure you will be able to participate in melee or combat in your fw, though I'm not sure how long your buffs will keep you alive. Best of luck with the build!

[Daemonis]

Well, well, well folks. Looks like a few *heated* exchanges occurred. No need for that folks. I appreciate all feedback, good or bad.

I’ve updated the OP in light of many good points made by several of the posters through out the thread, to date. Also added some comments and suggestions on how I have - or plan to) leveling up my melee-centric caster. A few of you also posted questions in your posts, and I shall do my best to explain my thought process:

Geonis: You nailed it right on the head, I wanted to build a character that will be GOOD at most facets of the game. A melee-focused caster who can burn foes up while swinging my two hander, have dimension door, and be the last man standing!. I already have capped several 32.characters that are dedicated specialists, e.g., DPS melee, archery, instadeath, and big time nuking. I wanted to try something different.

Aeneas: You are right about the 55AC. No substitute. I also hope that I didn’t sound too jaded as well. I guess I have good and bad days in that regard and don’t take likely to folks demanding how I should play or which spells they want me to cast when PUGing. Guildmates, well, that’s a different story. Anyhow, the way I’ve built this guy, I believe, absolute worst case scenario, I can spam uninterruptible reconstructions/stoneskins/displacements while foes are beating on me while they are cooking in a CK or empowered+maxed+Wofire. I believe I can outlast them.

Averros & Valiance: In light of your advice, I will plan on swapping out toughness II for empower at level 12 – the same level I obtain my WoFire! Early on, I believe that toughness II will help promote survivability. At the end game, one or both toughness feats, as noted by Philo and Shade aren’t really needed once reconstruction is obtained. I was originally trying to hit the 300hp benchmark that a dedicated melee *should* have to promote survivability when buffs dissipate. Also, thanks for the advice regarding advanced level gear. I’m still working out my end-game gear configuration, and didn’t want to post my likely set up, but instead post basic equipment others could easily achieve. I have bloodstone that I plan on equipping most of the time, but the head of good fort definitely has its place in a build like this (e.g., UMDing, extra boost for saves vs. beholders, etc.).

Philo: LOL, I have a covert, evasion PvP wizard that I’m slowly building who will have absurd saves, evasion, an all the critical metas (quicken, empower, max, enlarge, heighten, insightful reflexes) to hopefully perform well in that setting. I also have 3 capped arcanes -->; a Drow instadeath/nuking sorcerer, 32.WF instadeath/fire spec’d sorcerer, and a 32.WF necromancer wizard and wanted to try a melee-focused caster for a change of pace.

I’m on the fence about Extend. I have a developed fairly good micromanaging/twitch skills playing a battlebard/nuking sorcerers – and don’t feel like I personally need it. I suppose one could swap out the first toughness feat for it. I probably won’t.

I also will keep quicken, as the build does not have any points placed into concentration (I maxed out UMD and balance instead) and because in the heat of the battle, I want to be able to re-cast my buffs or self-heal as needed without worrying about it (e.g., stoneskin, displacement, repair/reconstruct).

Shade: I swapped in empowered as others suggested and the burst nuking potential will be more than adequate via WoFire or top tier SRays. I concede that the build is not the absolute best nuker. The build wasn’t intended to be. I have other pure class arcanes who I can log on if that’s what I want to do.

As other battlemages who’ve I grouped up with and seen in action (and also trust their feedback), this build will do just fine in the DPS department + and will likely be the last man, err WF, standing when things go awry. Another way to also think about the build is functionally that of an intimidate tank. The empowered+maximized+WoFire +my initial ~30attack bonus+two hander slasher+powerattack+IC:slashing+bloodstone melee attack will draw most of the agro to me, so others can swing at them and steal MY kills. I believe I have built this character to take the heat – and keep on swinging!

CSFurious: Thanks for the compliment! You are always welcome in my PUGs! And I'll even toss a few buffs your way! LOL.

Voska: I put points into DEX to help bolster my reflex saves. INT to be able to max out UMD and nearly max out Balance. Getting knocked prone is about the only way that this build will not be able to fast-cast uninterruptible reconstructions on a whim. Concentration is not needed as the build has the quicken metamagic feat.

Xanstrollinax: Nice catch! This is why I post my builds, facing sometimes harsh criticisms, so others can help catch my oversights or help me optimize the build! Thanks!

Many thanks again, folks for your help with the build. I will keep updating and posting regarding my experiences, good and bad, with the build.

Cheers, -Daemonis.

[Ringos]

If you are running solo, yes. Otherwise it's a team trying to accomplish a goal. Not sure where the 'whining' comes from Wuffler. Asking and whining are two different things. Complaining is even different then whining. I have seen very few people whine in DDO.

If people are so darn self-sufficiant, why ever group? That's a serious question. Obviously those that group are relying on others for SOMETHING, or else you wouldn't be in a group in the first place. No group=no whining people to listen to.

[Daemonis]

Self-sufficiency, especially on a WF character is an overlooked aspect of game play. I speak from experience, as all my characters outside of my Drow sorcerer mule, are WF.

It has been my unfortunate experience, and I still get this question posed to me often (and occasionally as one of my arcane casters, LOL), “So…what are you going to do about healing?” I learned early on in my DDO experience that I couldn’t always count on the cleric to heal me without complaining (even with healer’s friend enchantment) and non-WF arcanes aren’t often accustomed to watching health bars or wand whipping. I learned the hard way that I needed to be self-sufficient, especially in PUGs.

The upside, if you learn how to be self-sufficient with regard to heals/buffs, is that you can solo most content during server census down times or for the pure challenge of it. You don’t need a nanny bot watching your health or have to beg others for buffs.

Sure heals and buffs great when they are forthcoming - and it does indeed make for a better, PUG gaming experience. And I’m always appreciative buffs or heals are tossed my way when they do. I just don’t ask anymore.

Cheers, -Daemonis.

[EspyLacopa]

means i'm running right past every 5th monster and letting him come for you because i'm not wasting 1/5 of my weapon damage on casters who can't take care of themselves. I do however agree that to some degree, party members should be able to equip and self buff properly and to the best of their own abilities before buff whoring.

*snicker*

<sarcasm>Yes, please, leave 1/5 of the enemies for me to kill while I wait back here</sarcasm>

BTW: (both with blue dragon docent or equivalent along with Superior Potency IV, Empower, and Maximize)
Lv12 Sorcerer Firewall: Base Damage 2d6+12, +90% enhancement + item, x2.25 Crit, 15% chance => 124.09375 average damage (including crits)
Lv16 Sorcerer Firewall: Base Damage 2d6+16, +90% enhancement + item, x2.5 Crit, 18% chance => 156.845 average damage (including crits)

So. . .the pure sorcerer's firewall is about 25% stronger. Considering the additional survivability, it's a fair tradeoff.

[Aeneas]

My posts were never intended to put your build down in any way. My original comment was really just in regards to my attempt from almost a year ago at WF wiz/rog/pally combo that always felt like he was just a bit behind the curve and i couldn't bring myself to play him anymore (deleted him at 5 wiz/2 rog/2 pally because i was hoping haste and displacement would be a turning point but it just wasn't). More of a warning to you not to be surprised if it isn't as great as the character planner tells you it could be (**** you minimum charisma warchanter!) In your builds defense, it's planned much better than mine was.

Picking the GH buff was probably a poor choice of spell because of planar girds. A more appropriate choice probably would have been resist 30, for places like the twilight forge or even reaver elite where a melee class should be expected to carry protection for at least one or two of the elemental damage types, but where asking for a resist buff from a caster is not at all unheard of or out of the question to fill out his protection to tank most effectively. Or even just simple jump spell for spots like the TF levered bridge section.

In any event, with good support (and maybe a docent of quickening for a little boostage between hastes?) you should be able to dish out some pretty good smackdowns, at the very least until level 12 quests or so. I think many people are now hitting walls with their spellswordish builds around these levels due to obnoxious saves/resists/immunities/hp's/damage output of high level mobs. For what you're shooting for however, i don't think i'd change anything significant, it looks good.

(PS, too bad the cap isn't going to 17, more of those level 6 spells would have been nice .)

[Aeneas]

*snicker*

<sarcasm>Yes, please, leave 1/5 of the enemies for me to kill while I wait back here</sarcasm>

BTW: (both with blue dragon docent or equivalent along with Superior Potency IV, Empower, and Maximize)
Lv12 Sorcerer Firewall: Base Damage 2d6+12, +90&#37; enhancement + item, x2.25 Crit, 15% chance => 124.09375 average damage (including crits)
Lv16 Sorcerer Firewall: Base Damage 2d6+16, +90% enhancement + item, x2.5 Crit, 18% chance => 156.845 average damage (including crits)

So. . .the pure sorcerer's firewall is about 25% stronger. Considering the additional survivability, it's a fair tradeoff.

sure, i'll leave you the flesh golems, iron golems, elder air/fire elementals, shadows in vol, rust monsters and mobs with true sight. One level 6 spell means that disintegrate, otilukes, and FOD which are the top choices for those mobs, goes out the window. And as far as i can tell, that spot will probably be reserved for reconstruct right? At the 18 cap however i see this build doing some serious work

[EspyLacopa]

sure, i'll leave you the flesh golems, iron golems, elder air/fire elementals, shadows in vol, rust monsters and mobs with true sight. Level 4 spells means no disintegrate, no cone of cold, no otilukes, no FOD which makes those mobs a pain to chip away.

Golems?
*breaks out Adamantine Mallet of Construct Killin'* (has to be Bludgeoning for the Clay Golems)

Rust Monsters?
They fry in the fire wall.

Air/Fire Elementals?
Air elementals fry in the fire wall, Fire Elementals will go down via general beat-down with either Elemental Bane or Icy Weapon.

Shadows?
Just grab a Holy weapon and beat them up.

[Bredger]

Im loving that build and im very tempted to try it out even though i play almost all human characters. I play a battlemage myself but he doesnt use 2handers or dual wield (although he used to do both) grabbing a shield and maybe switching some of your weapons to those with effects (cursespewing, paralyzers, etc) can increase your AC so that your not getting hit as often thus increasing how far your high hp will take you but at the same time decrease the DPS that you seem to be going for. Maybe its the different play style but if you seem to be going down faster than youd like try switching in an effect weapon that does alittle less damage (this draws less aggro to you but its effect makes them more vulnerable to party attacks). thats just me though and my battlemage is human - not warforge - so he'll last significantly less than you would not to mention all the space he has to use for the immunity items (disease and the like). All around though good build, and if my battlemage is any indication, he'll be very fun to play (and you will play him - alot). Good Luck.

[Aeneas]

sorry esp, i was editing that post as you quoted it, i had my spell progressions out of whack

[EspyLacopa]

sorry esp, i was editing that post as you quoted it, i had my spell progressions out of whack

By the by. . .
Let's look at the difference in kill time between two situations. (Monster has 15 DR, such as Iron Golems)
In Situation A, you have the warriors piercing the monster's DR.
In Situation B, you have the warriors failing to pierce it.

If said warriors are capable of dealing 40 damage per hit (which is apparently a goodly amount of damage per hit)

Situation A kills the monster 60% faster. If the warriors only deal 30 damage per hit? Twice as fast. That's why Golems sometimes seem to take so long to kill at times. In all likelyhood, it means the warriors aren't getting through the DR ^_

[Ghoste]

I have to agree with Asp on a lot of points. I have had a similar discussion (not all the same points) with tanks insisting I need to buff them, because if I don't, then what am I going to do when I run out of spell points; won't I be wishing I had buffed the tanks more so they could deal out more damage to protect me?

A wizard with over 200 hp (unbuffed), self healing, strong crowd control focus, experience at managing my sp pool, and DR/- 25-35 (depending on when my docent decides to kick in) can take quite a beating before I start begging for help from a tank. And if things go really bad, invisibility clickies and high stealth build to just sneak past everything to get to the next shrine. Every tank I've run into so far who was sitting on the edge of his seat waiting to tell me "I told you so", hasn't had the chance to say it yet.

Tanks do far better to ask politely for whatever buffs I wish to hand out, rather than barking orders for this and that buff.

[Averroes]

Another way to also think about the build is functionally that of an intimidate tank. The empowered+maximized+WoFire +my initial ~30attack bonus+two hander slasher+powerattack+IC:slashing+bloodstone melee attack will draw most of the agro to me, so others can swing at them and steal MY kills. I believe I have built this character to take the heat – and keep on swinging!

I actually play mine as an intimitank some of the time -- I think I'm running with 36 or 38 intimidate with normal gear (11 of that from the emerald claw pendant). Pugs are really surprised when the sorc intimidates the reaver... Although I have to roll pretty high to get him. Even with my character's setup, which isn't as defensive as yours (no quicken, ~180hp, only repair mod as a spellpoint-based heal), these builds are extremely hard to kill... And their melee offense compares reasonably with intimitanks as well -- you lose a fair bit by not getting any fighter feats or pally spells, but you gain some by using a two-handed weapon, and you gain some more by not using CE and therefore being able to freely use spells, scrolls and wands while in combat without hurting your defensive ability.

Mentau goggles take care of seeker and allow you to wear the head full-time, by the way -- worth considering if you can find them.

And I love the synergy of the argument about buffs -- that's the answer to the question someone asked about why make a melee sorc. It's like a fighter, only it doesn't need buffs, and it doesn't need heals.

Thanks for the damage numbers, by the way. I totally want to go get some actual data on that now...

[Daemonis]

In trying to help another builder clarify and appreciate the differences between this build and a variant of the popular WF Wizard Battlemage he was working on, I posted a detailed post here.

Update: I leveled my Diehard! up to 8 the other day! I’m getting there! LOL. –Daemonis.

[Ghoste]

sure, i'll leave you the flesh golems, iron golems, elder air/fire elementals, shadows in vol, rust monsters and mobs with true sight. One level 6 spell means that disintegrate, otilukes, and FOD which are the top choices for those mobs, goes out the window. And as far as i can tell, that spot will probably be reserved for reconstruct right? At the 18 cap however i see this build doing some serious work

You seem to have completely missed the fact that this build, while no pure min/max barb, is quite competent with a melee weapon.

[WeaselKing]

Warforged builds shouldn't die. Bump.