what is with all the cleric/rogue builds??

[Actus_Purus]

perhaps I just have not done enough research, but I'm too lazy for that. i'd rather have someone just tell me..
so what is the benefit of making a cleric part rogue? to me it doesn't make sense, because a cleric is wisdom/charisma/strength based, and a rogue is dex/int based. is having part rogue just a handy tool so you don't need to take up a slot in the party? poor rogues, they're quite underrated... but if this is the case why not splash rogue on a class other than cleric? e.g. a wizard or ranger, which have similar abilities as rogues. it seems to me that a cleric/rogue would be a crappy rogue and a crappy cleric combined..

please convince me otherwise,
Actuus.

[Impaqt]

perhaps I just have not done enough research, but I'm too lazy for that. i'd rather have someone just tell me..
so what is the benefit of making a cleric part rogue? to me it doesn't make sense, because a cleric is wisdom/charisma/strength based, and a rogue is dex/int based. is having part rogue just a handy tool so you don't need to take up a slot in the party? poor rogues, they're quite underrated... but if this is the case why not splash rogue on a class other than cleric? e.g. a wizard or ranger, which have similar abilities as rogues. it seems to me that a cleric/rogue would be a crappy rogue and a crappy cleric combined..

please convince me otherwise,
Actuus.

Maybe you should take a bit of time to look at the builds and see what your insulting. As anyone who has runw ith steelyn as Ive leveld her over the past month can attest, It can be done to a point where the Cleric siide and the Rogue side excel. Heck, InMaze of Madness today, my Cleric Rogue had to search out all the traps for our Pure rogue to disable (I could of disabled em too, but didnt wanna make em feel too bad )

[Niclos]

What are the benefits of a pure rogue especially at higher levels? DDO has made them the poorest class in the game and you should feel sorry for them. Whats expected of a rogue at lvl 14 usally to cast a heal scroll or raise scroll as everyone ignores or runs through traps now. Whats up with the rogues that arent built for traps or locks ? Multiclassing a cleric with rogue is not only fun but a viable build that can raise and heal at will. As for calling my build a poor rogue or poor cleric your totally wrong. IN fact 9 times out of 10 my build will get picked to go and not the rogue. Really its ddo fault for gimping rogues Ive seen like 3 good rogues on the sarlona server and peole have lost intrest in them cuz there really not that great pure. Clogues are awesome trust me you should build one

[Jadeare]

DPS, thats what pure rogues are good for. They are a combat class on anything living.

Mind you, reading these cleric/rogue builds has inspired me, i think they are great.

[Actus_Purus]

i must have a prejudice against rogue/clerics (i refuse to use the word 'clogue') because I have run with bad ones in the past. I was wrong to think every rogue/cleric was like that. though, much of it depends on the quality of items and the tact of the player (that is, almost any new player can pick up a sword and go town), and there is no denying that. a rogue/cleric seems almost like a "I'll build what I wanna build turbine, and I'll build it good!" kinda build, since it seems to be such a strech ability-wise. from your description they do sound like a fun and challenging build to play, and perhaps I should make one to find out. but I haven't been one for multiclassing..

[Impaqt]

I find Clouge a rediculous term as well... I also find your omment on tact rather amusing.

[Drekisen]

perhaps I just have not done enough research, but I'm too lazy for that. i'd rather have someone just tell me..
so what is the benefit of making a cleric part rogue? to me it doesn't make sense, because a cleric is wisdom/charisma/strength based, and a rogue is dex/int based. is having part rogue just a handy tool so you don't need to take up a slot in the party? poor rogues, they're quite underrated... but if this is the case why not splash rogue on a class other than cleric? e.g. a wizard or ranger, which have similar abilities as rogues. it seems to me that a cleric/rogue would be a crappy rogue and a crappy cleric combined..

please convince me otherwise,
Actuus.

I would think this and the fact that clerics actually have trapfinding in thier list of granted feats is a pretty big association between the two. Personally my splash is the other way around. I have a 8rge/2wzd/1clr that is ultimately going to be 12rge/2wzd/2clr, and I did so to have extended first level buffs of each class as well as being able to freely use wands without having to worry about UMD checks, and for a few other reasons. However, IMO, I don't think that someone who is more majority level cleric or even equal levels would be gimped at all. I'm fairly certain that the people that u did group with trying to do this probably have not studied the mechnics of builds too much or were experimenting with something "non-typical". As far as no reason for pure class, well I have both, multi-class rogue and pure class rogue, and I know for a fact there are things that the one can do that the other never will be able to, or not as well anyways.

[Galapas]

I don't see the synergy either. There is the find traps spell, and the high wisdom that allows you to slack off the spot skill, but that's not much. The game is generous with capabilities, allowing you to make a viable character by combining any two classes in any amounts, but cleric and rogue combine about as badly as any two classes. I think every other class splashes a level or two of rogue to better effect than a cleric.

In the other direction, a rogue without UMD could splash a cleric level to good effect.

[rimble]

It's not necessarily the synergy of classes, but the synergy of roles. One of my favorite characters (broken and deleted after Human Versatility was changed) was a Bard/Rogue...I took care of every non-combat thing...buffing, traps, healing, some cc...he had it all covered, but if he got attacked you better go save him. Combining all those roles made for a very efficient support character without 'wasting' a slot in the party with a dedicated healer standing around or a trapmonkey getting into trouble.

Combining several support roles--healer, buffer, trapsmith--into one character is extremely efficient for the party.

[Impaqt]

I would think this and the fact that clerics actually have trapfinding in thier list of granted feats is a pretty big association between the two.

Clerics Dont get "Trapfinding" as a feat. THats rogue only. In order to find traps over DC 20 they need to cast "Find Traps".

FInd traps is a very handy spell of course, but since your going tohave a level or 2 of rogue anyway, its not necessary except on high DC Traps.

[Arnya]

IMO the best synergy with clr/rog is the versatility, and availability of UMD and the turning alternatives (DV, DH, DC)

With a max cha score, you have many turns to spend and a great UMD for restricted gear and arcane wands/scrolls.

EDIT: Find traps is a cleric class feature not a skill. Find traps spell will also stack with most if not all search buffs, including prayer I believe.

[Galapas]

It's not necessarily the synergy of classes, but the synergy of roles. One of my favorite characters (broken and deleted after Human Versatility was changed) was a Bard/Rogue...I took care of every non-combat thing...buffing, traps, healing, some cc...he had it all covered, but if he got attacked you better go save him. Combining all those roles made for a very efficient support character without 'wasting' a slot in the party with a dedicated healer standing around or a trapmonkey getting into trouble.

Combining several support roles--healer, buffer, trapsmith--into one character is extremely efficient for the party.

I'll buy that. It's always easy to find someone willing to kill stuff. If you want a spot in a PUG, it is a good plan.

On the other hand, in a dedicated duo or trio, I'd keep the cleric pure and multiclass somebody else. Of course, for that to work, that somebody else has to be willing.

[ShadowFox1978]

Impaqt thinks mine is more rogue than cleric, but you really don't sacrafice much stat wise. I chose to put mine on a drow as 3 of the necessary stats start as 10's. My final build will have:

16 str(18 if I get a tome)
28 dex
16 con(18 with a tome)
24 int
28 wis
18 cha (20 with a tome)

True, I will not be able to land offensive spells on elite, but the idea is a solid rogue that is completely self-sufficient. I can cast all major buffs from the cleric and UMD all major buffs from the arcane side. I can raise with no check, and use repair/reconstruct with little to no chance of failure.

[Impaqt]

Impaqt thinks mine is more rogue than cleric, but you really don't sacrafice much stat wise. .

Gah!!


Can someone Pull this knife out of my Back for me?

Yes, I think 5 levels of rogue is giving up too much on the cleric side..... Especially when the result is having rogue skills that far eclipse every high water mark in the game except for Cabal.... and come close.. If not make the cabal marks.....

I just find the cabl trap as a trap that Gimps ROgues... an artificial High Water mark that seemed like a good idea to the devs at the time, but prooved to blow up in their face.

[ShadowFox1978]

Wasn't intended as a knife. :P


I never built with the Cabal trap in mind. I made the build got what I wanted from it, and only after running final numbers did I realize Cabal was within reach. I have him to level 5 and all relevent rogue skills (except UMD) are already in the mid-20's. I also believe building with that trap in mind can only serve to gimp you. I was totally surprised with the skill numbers I acheived. This character is a blast and may eventually rival my warpriestess in terms of my favorite to play chars.

[sigtrent]

Having made one, here is my take on why they are interesting.

#1. They are hard to make. Skill points are a premium and int doesn't do a cleric much good.

#2. If you want to do combat, cleric has divine power which makes combat accuracy easy to achieve, something mix rogue casters have issues with. A rogue cleric is a lot better in melee/ranged combat than a rogue/arcane.

#3. They have a self only spell to increase search... why not try it out?

#4. In my case I was trying to make a sort of ultimate support character that could heal/trap/fight/tank/buff/cast/etc...

[Actus_Purus]

#4. In my case I was trying to make a sort of ultimate support character that could heal/trap/fight/tank/buff/cast/etc...

i like sigtrent's idea. maybe i should just make a character who heals and finds traps... and buffs... and nukes... and controls crowds...and swings an axe.. now that's my kind of character

[Impaqt]

i like sigtrent's idea. maybe i should just make a character who heals and finds traps... and buffs... and nukes... and controls crowds...and swings an axe.. now that's my kind of character

Substitute Longsword for Axe and you can play my CLeric Rogue.

Her Greater Commands, Slays, and Blade Barrier are surprisingly effective in all the content I've played her in so far.

[Mellkor]

I went 12 cleric/2 rogue strictly for pvp with a high enough dex to back up evasion. If you think it is a gimp build, I invite you to either PvP or PvE with me, I would be happy to demonstrate its effectiveness :P

-JR

[MrWizard]

perhaps I just have not done enough research, but I'm too lazy for that. i'd rather have someone just tell me..
so what is the benefit of making a cleric part rogue? to me it doesn't make sense, because a cleric is wisdom/charisma/strength based, and a rogue is dex/int based. is having part rogue just a handy tool so you don't need to take up a slot in the party? poor rogues, they're quite underrated... but if this is the case why not splash rogue on a class other than cleric? e.g. a wizard or ranger, which have similar abilities as rogues. it seems to me that a cleric/rogue would be a crappy rogue and a crappy cleric combined..

please convince me otherwise,
Actuus.

as far as I know, charisma is for turning and not much else. So no charisma is really needed. My cleric rogue started with 10 or 12 I think (for umd).

Wisdom is only important if you are going for offensive caster and want a good DC for your offensive spells. Very little mana is gained by maxiing it out. In fact, unless you have to absolutely get the rune in von5, you can start with a 8 or 10 and be fine.

This leaves a lot of points for a nice dex and intel. This makes you an excellent range or finesse toon (i use repeaters and it rocks.).

As a cleric most of the time you are sitting there healing...boring...



AS a rogue cleric you can open locks, disable traps, and people will go 'wow'. Now you can not only heal barbarians who run through traps but you can also say 'wait, trap!' before they run through and you disable it.

If you go two levels rogue, you get evasion.

My rogue has evasion and it is awesome. In the white dragon room I NEVER got knocked down once and rarely took any damage at all. I just stood, fired my bow, healed, and we won.

Straight cleric can be boring. Cleric rogue gives you something to do and you can actually survive a bad pug better.


its more 'FUNNER"