concentrations checks

[BLAKROC]

I have a queston for the devs.

when you made the changes and put in concentrations checks, but only included caster classes in this what was the reasoning?

If a mellee types takes damage, wouldn't that make them less likely to complete their attack sequence as well?

currently the only way for a caster to overcome this is to take quicken(which burns a precious feat as we get so few) and add to the cost of the spell, ie burn more mana!

Mellee types aren't affected by this and get more feats, so what is the reasoning? in order for others to not have to make a concentration check, they should have to use a feat for it!

I have been on this game almost 2 years and have seen, change after change ( not callin em nerfs ) to the caster class, while mellees, get more and more. and yes some of the changes for casters have been very good( ie mana enhancements).

I just want to know the logic of how one type of character (casters) is affected by an attack, but others (mellee, ranged) are not.

[MysticTheurge]

I just want to know the logic of how one type of character (casters) is affected by an attack, but others (mellee, ranged) are not.

The DDO devs did it that way because that's how it works in D&D.

If you want to know why it works that way in D&D... I don't really know (or feel like making up an answer) so I guess you could either ask the WotC developers or wait til someone else posts a reasonable answer. I assume it has to do with the fact that casting a spell is complicated and require more precise action, while attacking isn't/doesn't.

[honkuimushi]

This is straight from PnP. Spells are generally more powerful than physical attacks. Therefore they are a limited resourse and not guaranteed. Targets get saves against most spells and distractions can disrupt a spell. The explanation given is that these spells are reshaping reality and you have to concentrate on your intent and perform the ritual correctly. Being attacked certainly will inhibit your concentration. In PnP not only do you face a concentration check when you take damage, but whenever an attacker is close enough to threaten you, spell casting provokes an attack of opportunity. You can avoid those by casting defensively-- which means you have to make a concentration check for every spell you cast.

I'm not sure what you mean by changes. For the most part, concentration checks are less burdensome in DDO than in PnP. The one thing I might want to see changed is giving casters a bonus on their concentration check to somewhat offset the increased amount of damage inflicted in DDO.

[Kiranselie]

The only problem I have w/ concentration checks is the fact that it seems that the mobs dont seem to have to make them. Now I know that some casters carry quicken, but is it safe to assume that ALL mobs use quicken ALL the time. Just something I've been wondering about everytime I get hit w/ a phantom flame strike as the hobgoblin cleric hits the dirt.

[Emili]

The only problem I have w/ concentration checks is the fact that it seems that the mobs dont seem to have to make them. Now I know that some casters carry quicken, but is it safe to assume that ALL mobs use quicken ALL the time. Just something I've been wondering about everytime I get hit w/ a phantom flame strike as the hobgoblin cleric hits the dirt.

Every mob not only have quicken but also do not have to use somatics or even verbal I suppose ... held, stoned, paralyzed ... they need no movement for thier spell casting


Technically speaking you should be making concentration checks... while jumping, etc...

Concentration
To cast a spell, you must concentrate. If something interrupts your concentration while you’re casting, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell. The more distracting the interruption and the higher the level of the spell you are trying to cast, the higher the DC is. If you fail the check, you lose the spell just as if you had cast it to no effect.

Injury
If while trying to cast a spell you take damage, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + points of damage taken + the level of the spell you’re casting). If you fail the check, you lose the spell without effect. The interrupting event strikes during spellcasting if it comes between when you start and when you complete a spell (for a spell with a casting time of 1 full round or more) or if it comes in response to your casting the spell (such as an attack of opportunity provoked by the spell or a contingent attack, such as a readied action).

If you are taking continuous damage half the damage is considered to take place while you are casting a spell. You must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + ½ the damage that the continuous source last dealt + the level of the spell you’re casting). If the last damage dealt was the last damage that the effect could deal then the damage is over, and it does not distract you.

Repeated damage does not count as continuous damage.

Spell
If you are affected by a spell while attempting to cast a spell of your own, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell you are casting. If the spell affecting you deals damage, the DC is 10 + points of damage + the level of the spell you’re casting.

If the spell interferes with you or distracts you in some other way, the DC is the spell’s saving throw DC + the level of the spell you’re casting. For a spell with no saving throw, it’s the DC that the spell’s saving throw would have if a save were allowed.

Grappling or Pinned
The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell.

Vigorous Motion
If you are riding on a moving mount, taking a bouncy ride in a wagon, on a small boat in rough water, below-decks in a storm-tossed ship, or simply being jostled in a similar fashion, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell.

Violent Motion
If you are on a galloping horse, taking a very rough ride in a wagon, on a small boat in rapids or in a storm, on deck in a storm-tossed ship, or being tossed roughly about in a similar fashion, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell.

Violent Weather
You must make a Concentration check if you try to cast a spell in violent weather. If you are in a high wind carrying blinding rain or sleet, the DC is 5 + the level of the spell you’re casting. If you are in wind-driven hail, dust, or debris, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting. In either case, you lose the spell if you fail the Concentration check. If the weather is caused by a spell, use the rules in the Spell subsection above.

Casting Defensively
If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.

Entangled
If you want to cast a spell while entangled in a net or by a tanglefoot bag or while you’re affected by a spell with similar effects, you must make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast the spell. You lose the spell if you fail.

The biggest problem in DDO about concentration checks are the mob hit very very hard compared to a casters skill for the level of quests they are in. Melee in DDO do not suffer a lot of the fate they do in DnD either which is true... they do however do not get to attack while prone - which they can do in DnD, they do suffer some to-hit ablities while moving, thus feats like Spring attack etc... are more viable in DnD then DDO. An Interuption in the melee sequence due to being hit though I do think would make little difference to them as they'd just start a sequence over... and the +0 +0 +6 +10 to-hit sequence plays very little difference in most melee to-hit.

It is quite unfortunate that we dump so much into the skill, only to have it next-to, if not useless.

Oh, btw... hiya Blac

[Shade]

Well yea players can't be interupted melee - you know how much the game would suck if they did that? Well it would suck allot.

But monsters can, and are.

Hit a mob hard enough and he will never fight back. Particularly effective on flesh renders/fire reavers/ice flesner - hit them so hard that they scream and they will not be able to complete any actions, even melee attacks.

[Mad_Bombardier]

On a continuation, I would like to see Concentration checks to continue opening a door, pulling a lever, etc. Interruptions suck noodles. Especially when it's a full* colored bar and sits there for a moment, but hasn't converted to "Done."

[honkuimushi]

The only problem with that is that concentration is not a class skill for most character classes. So that 400 hp dwarven barbarian has less chance of pulling the lever than that 90 hp drow sorcerer if concentration is used. It's a bit 2nd edition, but how about a con check? You couldn't do a simple d20 with the change in stats but what about con+ d20 vs. damage?

[MysticTheurge]

So that 400 hp dwarven barbarian has less chance of pulling the lever than that 90 hp drow sorcerer if concentration is used.

Yes. Someone who trains themselves to ignore pain and focus on the task their trying to accomplish should have a better chance at doing it than someone whose usual response to pain is "GAAARRRGGGHH HULK SMASH!"

[Mad_Bombardier]

The only problem with that is that concentration is not a class skill for most character classes. So that 400 hp dwarven barbarian has less chance of pulling the lever than that 90 hp drow sorcerer if concentration is used. It's a bit 2nd edition, but how about a con check? You couldn't do a simple d20 with the change in stats but what about con+ d20 vs. damage?

Yes. Someone who trains themselves to ignore pain and focus on the task their trying to accomplish should have a better chance at doing it than someone whose usual response to pain is "GAAARRRGGGHH HULK SMASH!"

Exactly. It's a trained skill; casters don't get it for free.

P.S. It's actually the widest granted class skill. Only 3 classes do not get Concentration as a class skill; Barb, Fighter, Rogue.