~Crisis on Infinite Servers~

[lbroyles]

Games for Windows: The Official Magazine
January 2008 pg 82
Crisis on Infinite Servers by Ryan Scott

"Chicken Tenders is recruiting! We are a new guild accepting members of all levels. We have a guild bank, tabard, and lots of nice guildies. We do Battlegrounds, run instances, and quest together, and we are gonna start raiding Karazhan pretty soon. We are looking for more nice players to help the guild grow fast, and to have fun together. All are welcome! PST for info."

Chances are you've probably seen many messages like this in the general and trade chat windows of whatever MMO(s) you happen to play. Perhaps if you're a fresh-out-of-the-account-creation-screen newcomer to these sorts of games, the rush of open guild invites seems warm and welcoming. After all, you want somewhere to belong, right? Somewhere that appreciates you for you?

For jaded, grumpy, get-the-hell-off-my-vitual-lawn-you-****-newbs blowhards like me, guild invite spam is a bright red flag. Unfiltered enrollement leads to what i term "Zerg Guilds": masses of immature idiots, all with different goals and agendas, and most looking out for their own interests above all else. These guilds might mold themselves nto effective teams, but they aren't families, per se-outside of whatever nightly raid you happen to sign up for, guild chat is largely just another channel for the kids to unlease streams of profanity and hilarious Chuck Norris jokes.

Here's a story about a guild from the good old days: back in 1999, I applied for membership in a fairly infamous guild on Ultima Online's Pacific Server called The Black Hand (or BH, for short) BH had a reputation as a merciless PVP-oriented guild, with an all-for-one philosophy and a very close-knit relationship among its camparatively modest member base. As a prospective member, I underwent a weeks-long getting-to-know-you period, followed by a verbal interview (the Inquisition, we called it) to gauge the limits of an initiate's loyalty. Membership required a unanimous vote among every active guild member; a single "no" was all it took to deny an applicant-no questions asked. It was strict, effective policy that guaranteed extreme trust, dedication, and unity on an emotional level. A BH title above your head meant something. And, as my one-time guild master once succinctly noted to new members, "If you call for help in this guild, don't be surprised if like nine people show up." That's committment for committment's sake.

Nowadays, those guilds are gone. Quantity trumps quality, and every MMO from World of Warcraft to Guild Wars sends the same message, loud and clear: Smaller guilds are second-class guilds. Join the herd or get left behind. So it is that Zerg guilds mobilize predominantly for the accumulation of phat loot (the one true be-all, end-all goal), while the Balck Hands of the world-the players who stood together because they felt they'd found other people of quality with whom to spend their gaming hours-wither and die. Not racing to clear the Black Temple? That retribution Paladin over yonder's got no time to waste on you; he has epics to grind. Sure, he can hardly stand most of his 80 other guildmates (three-quarters of whom he doesn't know from Adam) . . but if you can't do anything to up his all important DPS number and they can, why should he bother joining your guild close-knit or not?

Even the guilds that craft careful mission statements and recruitment policies only parse the word "quality" in a how-good-are-your-stats manner, with little consideration for chemistry or other social intangibles. Applying to one of these organizations amounts to the text-chat equivalent of a job interview; a clinical, number-crunching, so-what-can-you-do-for-us affair. You're only worth as much as you bring to the weekly 25-man raid, and if you're not committed enough to that cause . . well, we've got plenty of other applicants in the que. next in line, please?

[lbroyles]

Thought this was an interesting article and I wanted to share it.

[Oreg]

I think it is pretty narrow minded and biased view and ignores thousands of successful smaller guilds in mmorpg's in order to prove its point.

Interesting I guess but I don't agree with his conclusion.

[Talish]

I think it is pretty narrow minded and biased view and ignores thousands of successful smaller guilds in mmorpg's in order to prove its point.

Interesting I guess but I don't agree with his conclusion.

Agreed. Unfortunately guild spam exists here on Khyber. My lvl 1 cleric gets several everytime she tries to help out. Sometimes it is from another lvl 1 or 2 that has just started the game and figures they will start a guild as well BUT often it is from a lvl 13 or 14 who spams these invites. Not even asking if I am interested through /tell.

[Durak_the_Great]

Bogus!!!! I agree there are alot of crappy guilds out there even as he put it zerg guilds but, i am from a great guild thats been around coming on 2 years and know some of my guild mates better than I do my family. There were no inteviews.

[Barik]

Very interesting article really. I agree with it 100%. Im in currently what used to be a VERY large VERY active guild on Aundair (we are still currently on khyber with huge #'s but the regular player base has deteriorated). I have a few very close friends in the guild but most i dont know at all. I think it would be amazing to be in a guild where everyone knows and if not likes at least respects all of there guildies,some from major guilds might say they do but i dont believe them (my own experiences i spose).

[Gypsy_Mouse]

Agreed. Unfortunately guild spam exists here on Khyber. My lvl 1 cleric gets several everytime she tries to help out. Sometimes it is from another lvl 1 or 2 that has just started the game and figures they will start a guild as well BUT often it is from a lvl 13 or 14 who spams these invites. Not even asking if I am interested through /tell.

My cleric used to get this sort of thing ALL the time, from the small "nobody" guilds on up to the more prominent and well established guilds. More often than not it was at least a verbal invite while in the party backed by others from the same guild. Those that were blind invites were told off in no uncertain terms with a sound lecture on "etiquette" concerning blind invites, guild or group.

But you know what my solution was? I created my own guild. It's just me, but dang, I've had peace and quiet for over a year now. And I've made guilds for all my characters now.
I still get the occasional open invitation to join a guild should I ever want to leave the guild I'm currently in. lol
Rarely I will get a person asking me about my guild, which just makes me laugh.

[Talish]

I think it would be amazing to be in a guild where everyone knows and if not likes at least respects all of there guildies,some from major guilds might say they do but i dont believe them (my own experiences i spose).

Then I guess I am an extremely lucky person. My guild has a limited membership and a small group of officers (4). When our numbers lower to a certain point we go recruiting but we just don't pick anyone. Either me or my officers need to travel frequently with the player in question to make sure they are a fit with the rest of us. If it's an officer that travels with them then I prefer the player still travel with me although it's not manditory as I trust my officers judgement. Once the new player has joined I make every effort to make them feel welcome and an important part of the guild as well as getting to know them. I'm proud to say I know every member of my guild. I've deliberately kept the guild around 20 unique players as that seems to be a very good number that allows each member to get to know each other and makes it so there is usually someone around to group with. That's why I disagree with the above statement as I know that a guild can be the exact opposite to what is stated in that article.

Gypsy Mouse, My level 1 character is a newbie helper and unguilded. I don't want her associated with any guild in the game for several reasons the most important being the fact that MANY guilds and individual players donate items/plat etc to her to redistribute among the new players, world swappers etc coming to Khyber. Although it may appear as if I am a 1 person welcoming committee that is not the case by a long shot so I prefer she remain unguilded. I would definitely recommend to people that are annoyed by blind guild invites to create their own little 1 man guild as that is the easiest way to avoid the spam. The other reason I don't guild Mythe is well it actually allows me to spot new players easier. They tend to be the ones spamming guild invites most of the time. AS for the higher level and larger guilds who spam the invites... well... enough said on that.

[Jack_No.7]

small MMO= slim pickings

Though i agree with the way one should bring in members, this bull about commitment is a joke. This is a game not RL, people should understand that

[Gypsy_Mouse]

Gypsy Mouse, My level 1 character is a newbie helper and unguilded. I don't want her associated with any guild in the game for several reasons the most important being the fact that MANY guilds and individual players donate items/plat etc to her to redistribute among the new players, world swappers etc coming to Khyber. Although it may appear as if I am a 1 person welcoming committee that is not the case by a long shot so I prefer she remain unguilded. I would definitely recommend to people that are annoyed by blind guild invites to create their own little 1 man guild as that is the easiest way to avoid the spam. The other reason I don't guild Mythe is well it actually allows me to spot new players easier. They tend to be the ones spamming guild invites most of the time. AS for the higher level and larger guilds who spam the invites... well... enough said on that.

But see, that's exactly why I created my own "guilds". After being part of failed guilds or guilds who failed me, I no longer wanted to be part of a guild. However, leaving her unguilded left her open to frequent and sometimes annoying guild invites.

Creating my own guild doesn't tie me to a guild since there is no one else in them. It's just an easy way of advertising I'm not available to join or interested in joining a guild. I pretty much envision each of my characters as going their own ways and assisting where needed, whether it's the "highest bidder" for my fighter, or to ease the suffering and protect my fellow adventurers with my cleric.

Only one of my newest characters isn't in a guild (yet) and if you ever need help helping the newbies, PM me and I'll be happy to send her in.

[Talish]

Oh thank you so much for the offer of help Gypsy Mouse. If you were in front of me right now I'd give you a big hug. Actually all you need to do if you want to help out is create a pug and state that it is for newer players only. Your doing this 1 time will help a lot.

Now perhaps I can do you a favor. Older players have often invited Mythe into their one man guilds (after a tell of course) and made her a temp Officer for the sole purpose of inviting their alts into their guild. Once that is done I leave guild. If you ever want all of your characters in the same guild send me a tell and I'd be happy to do the same for you.

[Barik]

Talish, I dont know you so its hard for me to speak about you or your guild. However, the article from the op had mentioned how this guild (The Black Hand) had maintained a small, very close population while at the same time holding the elite status. i have NEVER seen anything close to that on here. The closest i've seen is TA (my Aundair bias im sure) but knowing a couple members i doubt even they have always been comfortable with ALL the people representing there guild.

[Talish]

Talish, I dont know you so its hard for me to speak about you or your guild. However, the article from the op had mentioned how this guild (The Black Hand) had maintained a small, very close population while at the same time holding the elite status. i have NEVER seen anything close to that on here. The closest i've seen is TA (my Aundair bias im sure) but knowing a couple members i doubt even they have always been comfortable with ALL the people representing there guild.

Nice to meet you.

Perhaps the main difference is that my guild is small and close but not elite. Everyone in the guild is there to just have fun. Maybe that is why it works.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

I can understand the article because I have been there.

I personally agree that a guild should have a purpose. If the guild doesn't have a
purpose and stick to it, the friends list is perfectly capable of handling all of
my in game communication needs.

I guess what I am saying is that if you are not going to be a tight nit group of players,
then party with everyone and anyone that is doing what you want to do at the moment.


All this, of course, is just my opinion generated from my own experiences.



To me success of a guild is not about finishing a quest. I can finish any quest in the
game with people from a pick up group. Just getting the win, xp, and loot from a
quest is not success to me. Each person that joins a group or guild is looking for
a certain experience (I am not talking 15k xp points either). Some folks want to
disect the quest by pulling small groups of mobs and killing them off one at a time.
Others want to see how many different ways they can complete the same quest.
Some even want to pretend that they are a small female dwarf that is the fairest in all
the land. A successful guild is one that can give its' members the experience that
they are looking for.

As a member of a big guild where people hand eachother tomes like cupcakes, it makes
the game more routine than challenging (been there done that). As member of a small
guild/group the play is very focused, together, and satisfying. As member of a random
group on the server, be ready for anything....


I stick by my statement that a good friends list is different from a good guild.

[lbroyles]

Well the reason I liked this article so much because my guild is a small guild where everyone knows everyone. While I didn't want to turn this into a recruitment tool some of you seem to like the idea of being in a guild like mine. If anyone would like to check it out on an alt let me know. We have a one month trial membership where if you don't work out, no hard feelings but it wasn't meant to be. I value the close friends I made on Riedra over the last two years and would like to make more close friends on Khyber.

[Ghaldar]

Well I guess I am blessed. I belong to the Big guild that feels like a small one. What is fun about the big guild is watching/helping new people become more skilled in their endevours etc. at least for me. Hope you all have a good one. I hail Grunk!!!! lol.

[Barik]

Nice to meet you.

Perhaps the main difference is that my guild is small and close but not elite. Everyone in the guild is there to just have fun. Maybe that is why it works.

Nice to meet you too

[Lo_Pan]

I have specific requirements when recruiting. It's not an all or nothing deal, it's quite unique.... I hope. I don't invite-zerg, I don't spam either. I used to recruit every time I saw quality players without a guild name above their heads....Now, after a recent experience, I won't be doing any of that any more. This thread only serves to highlight that issue.

[Inkblack]

... The closest i've seen is TA (my Aundair bias im sure) ...

Why thank you for the compliment! We take the Twilight Avenger tag seriously, which is one reason we only tag main characters with it.

To me this article sounds like someone romanticizing the good old days. Sure its harder to maintain that top to bottom quality with large guilds, but it can be and is done. There are plenty of guild tags that I recognize and expect to have good players.

Ink

[cardmj1]

As far as the article, yes there is some issues with blind invites on Khyber. The guild I am in is fairly large but it's more of a small family to most of us. I love to help the "new to the game" people and after running with them, I will extend an invite if they want one. However, we extend invitations mainly upon the request of the non guild player. In my personal experience, the only time I have offered guild membership is when I have seen a player who really knows his toon and how to play it or a really great personality that I know would fit well. Blind invites are quite simply a big No-No in my book.