The Thing (A build by request)

[sigtrent]

Adequet≠ amazing

Ahh, bad use of language on my behalf.. I was trying to say... "theya arn't amazing, but they are good" but endid up saying "they are good or possibly amazing"

How will they "Know where all the traps are" in the new content?

I did consider that... and the answer is... stumble into them on the first attempt. For this build that shouldn't be a problem. The sorcerer might want to hang back a tad... But really I don't think most Duo groups could solo any of the high end stuff on their first try if the quest was not known to them.

I'd consider Quickening the cleric and putting those skill points into spot as well.

I was torn between Quicken and Maximize and putting points in spot over concentration. I also looked at trying too eek out one more point of Int so I could go full spot. Its a tough call. So I agree it is well worth consideration and I think comes down to what you want in your rogue.

[Impaqt]

Lets COnsider SPot a Second.... You did Put 4 ranks in at Creation...

4 Ranks
7 Wisdom Bonus
13 Item
4 Greater
1 Prayer
1 Spot ENH
---
28 Is acheivable on this build already......
You only need 8 or so points to hit the High Water Mark...

your Open Lock far exceeds the current high water mark..... as does Search unless your concerend about the cabal trap (WHich the search DC is coming down in Mod 6)
Take 4 away from both of those and you can hit Spot too..... Everything is within the range for L14 Elite COntent at that point.

[EinarMal]

I think also you might consider just dropping the paladin levels entirely. You are essentially sacrificing level 9 cleric spells for some immunities and +7 to all saves. I am not sure that is a very good trade. Clerics already have good saves, and the rogue + high dex gets your reflex save into the pretty good category.

That frees up build points as well, you don't really need to worry about charisma at that point. I think a better build would be something like a Cleric 14/Rogue 2. You could take a 3rd level of rogue down the line to boost up some skills without giving up level 9 spells.

Taking more than 3 levels outside of a Cleric/Wizard is kind of crazy unless you have a really really good reason. I don't see saves being that good of a reason.

Also saying 14 strength versus 10 and adding power attack is a minimal gain (+7 damage per swing) is pretty crazy as well. Right now you cannot overcome any DR to land those types of effects, that +7 would make a huge difference in that regard and also means you could do something against red names.


Str 10+6(DP) +2 (Tome) +2(Rage Spell)
Damage Per Swing:
Str 5
DF 3
Weapon 5
+13/10

Str 14+6(DP)+2(Tome)+2(Spell)
Damage Per Swing:
Str 7
DF 3
Weapon 5
PA 5
+20/16

You have increaed your DPS by about 57% with normal weapons and now can punch through DR 15 with the offhand easily. To me if your going to be the melee half of the team you need to be a little bit more versatile in the types of damage and weapons you can use.

[EinarMal]

I also agree with the other poster who said the best duo pair in the game (certainly at high levels) would be a warforged sorcerer and a warforged wizard/rogue. Min/Max the warforged sorcerer with all points into Cha/Con and enough Int for whatever skills you want. The Wizard would also be very versatile. You have tons of spells at your disposable, both can heal themselves and each other, that is a ton of power packed into two characters that will only increase as the cap increases.

The wizard can utilize insightful reflexes to get a very good reflex save in the next Mod as well....so dex is not really that needed at all, you can pretty much dump stat it.

[Taerdra]

I know this is way too early to say... but this build with Monk instead of Pally would probably be very, very sweet... depending on implementation of course...

BAB would suffer tho...

[binnsr]

Its just the skills that bother me... 19/54...... I like to see the actual breakdown.

I'll break em down, thanks!

This is how I denote skills in my builds: (this is taken from the lvl14 actual snapshot of one of my characters builds)

Skills:
Disable Device: 47 / 57 = 17 Ranks +4 (18 Int) +2 (Enh) +15 (Item) +7 (tools) +2 (HoGF) +4 (Greater Heroism) +3 (Ventilated Bracers) +3 (+6 Int ring)
Open Lock: 49 / 53 = 17 Ranks +10 (30 Dex) +13 (Item) +7 (tools) +2 (HoGF) +4 (Greater Heroism)
Search: 41 / 48 = 17 Ranks +4 (18 Int) +2 (Racial) +3 (Enh) +13 (Item) +2 (HoGF) +4 (Greater Heroism) +3 (+6 Int ring)
Spot: 33 / 40 = 17 Ranks +2 (15 Wis) +2 (Racial) +10 (Item) +2 (HoGF) +4 (Greater Heroism) +3 (+5 Wis Hat)
Hide: 35 / 39 = 9 Ranks +10 (30 Dex) +2 (Enh) +10 (Muffled Veneer) +2 (HoGF) +2 (Way of the Assassin) +4 (Greater Heroism)
Move Silently: 35 / 39 = 9 Ranks +10 (30 Dex) +2 (Enh) +10 (Muffled Veneer) +2 (HoGF) +2 (Way of the Assassin) +4 (Greater Heroism)
UMD: 32 / 36 = 17 Ranks +7 (24 Cha) +3 (Golden Cartouche) +3 (Skill Focus) +2 (HoGF) +4 (Greater Heroism)

I would like to see how you arrive at your stat numbers as well (I can usually figure it out, but then, I put together all my builds)
And again, here is how I show mine: (from the same build)

	Base	Points	Base	Tome	Lvl	Enh	Buff	Final	mod
STR	8	0	8		0	1	5	14	2
DEX	10	6	16	2	2	4	6	30	10
CON	6	4	10	1	0	0	3	14	2
INT	10	6	16	1	1	0	6	24*	4
WIS	8	6	14	1	0	0	5	20*	5
CHA	10	6	16	2	0	0	6	24	7

* Only equipped when needed

When I put a table like that in my builds, it means that I've copy-pasted it directly from my build spreadsheet.

I do like the color breakdown that you use for most of your stuff, though.

[sigtrent]

When I put a table like that in my builds, it means that I've copy-pasted it directly from my build spreadsheet.

I do like the color breakdown that you use for most of your stuff, though.

How did you do the table? I really wanted a table but the code tag didn't work and whenever I have mroe than one space it truncates it down to one space so I just couldn't geta table to stay lined up.

If you can email me the BBcode I'd appreciate it..
sigfried@gmail.com

[sigtrent]

your Open Lock far exceeds the current high water mark..... as does Search unless your concerend about the cabal trap (WHich the search DC is coming down in Mod 6)
Take 4 away from both of those and you can hit Spot too..... Everything is within the range for L14 Elite COntent at that point.

Thanks! I didn't really think it through that far, but that's really a great help. I'll make the adjustment.

[binnsr]

Click the A/A button in the upper right corner so that you get the 'raw' formating page rather than WYSIWYG page.
Then paste in the block of text (in my case, from my spreadsheet) in and surround it with a code tag. The WYSIWYG editing box is what is killing you there. it's pretty easy to screw the tables up when editing the post after the initial post, in which case, you'll have to re-paste from wherever you've got it with the tabs intact.

I've used the tables before for skills too, but if you have enough important skills, the code block gets a scroll bar which I don't like - so when I'm doing a build with a lot of skills (i.e. rogues), I use the format above. (an example of them in table format is in this build)

[sigtrent]

Click the A/A button in the upper right corner so that you get the 'raw' formating page rather than WYSIWYG page.
Then paste in the block of text (in my case, from my spreadsheet) in and surround it with a code tag. The WYSIWYG editing box is what is killing you there. it's pretty easy to screw the tables up when editing the post after the initial post, in which case, you'll have to re-paste from wherever you've got it with the tabs intact.

I've used the tables before for skills too, but if you have enough important skills, the code block gets a scroll bar which I don't like - so when I'm doing a build with a lot of skills (i.e. rogues), I use the format above. (an example of them in table format is in this build)

Ahh, see I generaly paste them in the non wysiwyg then switch back to preview the post to see if I missed anything and it garbles a lot of stuff at that point. I'm not sure I'm up for having to re-paste when editing a build since I do it fairly often, but its good to know!

[binnsr]

Ahh, see I generaly paste them in the non wysiwyg then switch back to preview the post to see if I missed anything and it garbles a lot of stuff at that point. I'm not sure I'm up for having to re-paste when editing a build since I do it fairly often, but its good to know!

Whichever version of vBulletin houseTharashk.com is using is much more forgiving of edits (since the default edit mode is non-WYSIWYG) than the one that Turbine is using, which is the main reason I keep using the blocks of text..

on that note, I wonder if there's a setting for the default editing mode around here somewhere...

edit: under Options (in the Miscellaneous section), change "Message Editor Interface" from "Enhanced Interface - Full WYSIWYG Editing" to "Standard Interface - Extra Formating Controls"

[st_alia]

My husband and I often play with just the two of us, and he forwarded me the link to this thread.

Thank you so much for the idea and build. We currently have a warforged paladin and human bard/rogue as a duo, but i can see us going down this road if we start having problems in higher quests.