Level Respecing

[Riminy]

Level Respecing is as simple as respecing a feat. You made a wrong choice and now you want to "fix" your mistake. However fixing your mistake is going to cost you, a possible material like a Dragonshard for example and a sum of plat. For every level you wish to respec, you will need another possible material and more plat.

In my opinion this is a great idea because since the beginning of the game things in DDO have been changing and things have been changed. For example say that Paladin level you took to use a wand or possibly for an aura bonus or that fighter level you took on your rogue so he/she could wear full plate while still evading those traps. Maybe your pure class but you would like to benefit from another class like 2 ranger for twf.

There is never a set plan of information to level 20 so you can never know what is going to happen. Who knows exactly what is coming in the future? Not everything can be implemented and maybe that fighter level you took on your character may be the worst mistake you've made and now you cant get that uber feat or enhancement later on.

You might say, ok well just reroll your toon and get on with the game. But my argument is that myself and some friends have been playing since the start. The characters have tomes and raid loots all put into them. Why should i have to give that up just because the game decides to change its mind halfway through and leave us out in the cold? You might say but its only 1 level or even 2. Sure but i play the game for fun and to enjoy myself after a long day. I wouldnt be enjoying myself as much if i always felt a little gimped because of the choice i made which turbine decided to change 1 year later.

It even benefits those newcomers to DDO. When i first started i had half as much idea then as i do now. On my very first character i screwed many things up like his feats and his leveling and yes i did reroll only because he was level 8 and at the time level 10 being the cap. He had no raid loot and was in my opinion, a terrible toon. If i had the chance to change his feats and levels perhaps that character would still be around.

My point is that with all the changes that occur in DDO i believe its reasonable that we should be allowed to re-adjust our characters so they we can make our characters exactly how we would like them.

Just my 2 cents,
Riminy

[Impaqt]

How do you address SKill Points?

If you create build that take advantage of flaws, then you should expect to reroll when they are changed.

[Riminy]

That is not exactly our fault. These changes should of been like how they are from the beginning. Not 1 year later..

And yes i was thinking that a similar kind of thing should be implemented for skill points. For those changes also to skills like balance. Itd be nice to have one for this but i was sticking with one idea at a time. I would love to have umd on my ranger.

[DasLurch]

I'd like to see some form of a total resec, but I just don't see it at any point in the near future. There's lots of reasons for this, and here's a few I can imagine...

1) There will probably be issues with any tomes used when it comes to stat points involving a respec.

2) The game isn't "finished" growwing yet. We're not even to level 16. at this rate 20 is a year + out still. IF and that's a big IF the Dev's ever decide to come up with a respec feature, it will be once we hit level 20 in my guesstamation.

3) People use Int tomes, and this can effect the skill points given out in a repec.

4) Who's to say that the level of ____ that you took for something back at lev 5 won't be beneficial at level 16 or 17? If they give in now, they'll be giving in each time we have a new update. While this wouldn't be a bad thing for us (players), I'd be willing to bet there are members of the dev staff already getting the shakes over that thought.

That's just a few of the hurdles I'd imagine that wouldhave to be dealt with before a respec can be implemented. Here's hoping that we get some news on a plan for it in the future, but I am afraid it's still a long way off.

[Dexxaan]

I'd much rather see Turbine put efforts towards new and better content / features, than try to help those players who refuse to reroll their mistakes...or such..

I don't pay my monthly dues to cover other peoples screw ups is my opinion.

So please disregard this thread Turbine and get back to work on level Cap increase, new feats and cool Enhancements.

[Serpent]

3) People use Int tomes, and this can effect the skill points given out in a repec.

Int tomes are supposed to scale adn offer more skill points when used. They are retroactive.

[Riminy]

I'd much rather see Turbine put efforts towards new and better content / features, than try to help those players who refuse to reroll their mistakes...or such..

I don't pay my monthly dues to cover other peoples screw ups is my opinion.

So please disregard this thread Turbine and get back to work on level Cap increase, new feats and cool Enhancements.

I dont see anyone complaining about the Feat respec... Im not saying turbine.. dedicate all your time to my idea. Your not the only one who wants more content.

[Kerr]

Int tomes are supposed to scale adn offer more skill points when used. They are retroactive.

Actually, no they don't. If you use a Tome in PnP, you don't get the additional skill points you would have had gained if you had used it earlier.

[Serpent]

Actually, no they don't. If you use a Tome in PnP, you don't get the additional skill points you would have had gained if you had used it earlier.

yes that is true it has changed so many times i have forgotten, the simple fact is they know at what level your character has taken a tome or at what level you applied a ability point. If they don't, the minor amount of skill points they will have does not really make a difference. There have been enough changes to skills to warrant a re spec either now or soon enough.

I don't think anyone would want a re spec over new content. But if we think back to mod 2 they managed to implement both and they did the same in mod 3. the fact is we need some option whether it be a one time thing or a concept that involves using a dragonshard. If we want to make the pnp argument which is getting really old, most DMs would be willing to make a compromise with there PCs, especially if the game is radically different then it was at start.

And the idea that they screwed up, hahaha.... man are you a little full of yourself. this is a game its about having fun. Sometimes we make mistakes and yes I think we should pay for them. but not with a complete re roll, especially since some characters have been around since the beginning. Mine started at launch and I would never re roll him except for one time but I digress. Everything I have done with him and all teh gear and favor he has created is important to me from game perspective. Would I pay in some form to re spec, yes. But to re roll sorry mate I'll stick to him and grumble some.

also to say a build takes advantage of flaws. evasion in heavy armor comes to mind. Well i know of no one who would re roll they just put on a skirt and deal, sure they don't look as beefy as they did but they are still just as good. There seems to be this idea of well i don't like your idea so i wish to punish you. I may be wrong but that is how i see it, if you really think that each character is no better then another why are you so threatened cause it sounds like you feel threatened by the idea of someone re spec'ing, are they going to be better then you after. Other then that fear its a non issue for those who don't want a re spec.

Re spec'ing helps many and hurt no one and if it does hurt you then I suggest closing the window going outside and seeing the rest of the world cause it has been a long time since you went there.

Finally and I am not the only one who thinks this but people please give up the pnp comparisons. PnP is a great place to start but it is not a mmo and there fore this game will differ. If we went to pnp then we would be turn based, stats would be lower, inflata hps would not exist and we would be so behind in magic weapons it would not be funny. We all need to just let it go.

[gpk]

I'd much rather see Turbine put efforts towards new and better content / features, than try to help those players who refuse to reroll their mistakes...or such..

I don't pay my monthly dues to cover other peoples screw ups is my opinion.

So please disregard this thread Turbine and get back to work on level Cap increase, new feats and cool Enhancements.

What a ridiculous statement; if they thought like that there wouldn't be a feat or enhancement respec either, so much for those "cool new feats and enhancements". You do indeed pay monthly fees for stuff liek that, remember the "academy training" update? An update just for new enhancements and re-training.
And what happens when those cool new enhancements and cool new feats are changed? Did you still "screw up" ? In that non-respec world and by your non-logic it would be "Oh well you are SOL".

If you change the way something works in a game you MUST allow players a chance to change with it. That's the whole point of a respec. You change feats? Allow feats to respeced. You change skills? Allow skill respecs.

The terrible tragedy over the whole evasion in heavy armor thingy is that sure the pnp nerds knew about it, the average player did not. A dev was even reported as saying at one of those game conventions that that wasn't likely to change. Other than that I don't recall any dev posts saying evasion would ever be "fixed" back then.
"Suddenly", well a year + later there's a new lead designer (what's DDO on it's 3rd or 4th?) and evasion gets fixed, players got 1 month notice. At the very least players should have been allowed to "trade in" their +5 mithral full plate for a +5 mithral breastplate or chain shirt.
I knew about evasion being limited to light armor and had a suspicion it might be changed, but that's me. The blame lies not with the player base; the devs had ample time to nip it in the bud and they chose not to. If they thought a changce was coming they coulda warned players.

A more preferable solution would be to have a de-leveler or a one time transfer/character of bound items perhaps.

Honestly is that +1 skill point/level really that big a deal? Look how long we're stuck at a given level cap. Those who argue "pnp this pnp that" could also argue that since you're not stuck at a given level in pnp, you KNOW that those skills will eventually come into play. In DDO it could be many many months.

[Pellegro]

I'd love a respec. Always have been pro-respec.

But I wouldn't want Mod 6, for example, to be "Introducing, RESPEC" with no, or even less, content.

Given that the development at this time seems to have been pretty scaled back (as evidenced by fewer, and smaller, mods), I'm willing to foresake it.

But I would still love one.

[MysticTheurge]

Int tomes are supposed to scale adn offer more skill points when used.

Yes.

They are retroactive.

No.

[Serpent]

Yes.



No.

already addressed this but thanks

[Riminy]

I'd love a respec. Always have been pro-respec.

But I wouldn't want Mod 6, for example, to be "Introducing, RESPEC" with no, or even less, content.

Given that the development at this time seems to have been pretty scaled back (as evidenced by fewer, and smaller, mods), I'm willing to foresake it.

But I would still love one.

I'm not asking for them to base a whole mod on it. I dont expect them (if implemented) to put it in by mod6. However mod 7 would be nice.. or even somewhere inbetween Also, I doubt they would dedicate a whole mod towards a respec. As serpent said,

I don't think anyone would want a re spec over new content. But if we think back to mod 2 they managed to implement both and they did the same in mod 3.

Thanks for the reply

[gpk]

Skill/class respecing an important part of a game that's sorely lacking in DDO.
Yes ppl seem to be so concerned over "I don't want this taking away time form this or that" but as others have said it has been done in the past, are there less developers working on DDO now vs before? Heck the new enhancement system was it's own update and took the place of new "content".
It's also very very unlikely that the quest design team would work on something like a class/skill respec system, you're not keeping them from that, the real issue seems to be QA, and those 2 little letters seem to be coming up a LOT lately, and often not in a good way.

I'm sure at the very least, a quick and easy skill respec system can be slapped together that won't require a lot of QA time, int tomes be damned.

LOL speakinf of development time, in hindsight, would anyone have missed LOTD 1 &2 if it were droped in favor of a more complete respec system?

[MysticTheurge]

Skill/class respecing an important part of a game that's sorely lacking in DDO.

I kind of like the idea of skill respec. I think it has a lot of advantages for the game overall, including the ability to continue to work on implementing new skills and adding additional ways for existing skills to make a difference.

Class respec is a bit trickier though. There's something that seems wrong about someone being a paladin through about 7th or 8th and then switching over to a sorcerer to do 9th through 14th. Or being something all the way up to 14th and then deciding they're bored and switching to a wholly different class.

That said, I do think it ought to balanced against those situations where someone was a total newb and though a level of cleric would really make them a better ranger, or you weren't paying attention and accidentally gave your fighter a paladin level, or whatever. I think, perhaps, a system that let you change one level, either your most recent level taken to anything else or a single level in your lowest class to your highest class wouldn't be a terrible idea.

[GrayOldDruid]

Maybe respec One level. Or a pay-to-rebuild premium service like what has been mentioned in other posts.

I would love to be able to fix a mistake I made at 1:00 AM after playing all night just to hit this level and taking 1 level in Bard and pouring all skill points into UMD for that awesome ability to use Heal Wands without trouble (and be proficient in light armor, a self-buffing spell, etc).

See the mistake? I didn't put at least 3 skill points into Perform!! Can't use my songs!! When did I notice? As soon as I hit the "Accept" button and it was all said and done. Where can I get an "UNDO" button??

Am I going to re-roll Batsran for that? No. Too much invested in him. Plus, 3 skill points at next level going into perform isn't such a bad thing... even if it will be cross class.... hard, yes. Would I like to reallocate those point to something that makes more sense? HECK YES.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Why a single-Level Class Respec won't work:

Roll up a Human Rogue, Level 1. Get LOTS AND LOTS of Skill Points... drop 4 points into a dozen skills.
Take Level 2, go Fighter, then go respec Level 1 back into Fighter. Can you un-do all the skill points? What about the Bonus feat you didn't get?

Option #2: Roll a Fighter with CE, run up to Level 10 or so, then splash 1 Level of Rogue, and drop all 10 skill points into UMD... you now havea maxxed out UMD... then @ 14, I want to spec out the Rogue Level, and take Fighter... how to handle that?

Option #3: Take Ranger 2, thne go Fighter all the way to 14, taking ITWF & GTWF... then I spec out Ranger 2 for Fighter 13... I just lost the pre-requisite for ITWF & GTWF? It also changed when I should have received all my bonus feats, making respeccing a mess... and, what happens when I spec out the final Ranger level for a Fighter Level, will the game know to give me a Fighter Bonus Feat?


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The problem is that a "Class" or "Level" Respec will break WAY too many things in the game.
You would need to implement a "Full-Character-Respec" Option (ie. strip down to Level 1, and re-level up all 14 levels, one at a time) in order to do it at all.

[ArkoHighStar]

Why a single-Level Class Respec won't work:

Roll up a Human Rogue, Level 1. Get LOTS AND LOTS of Skill Points... drop 4 points into a dozen skills.
Take Level 2, go Fighter, then go respec Level 1 back into Fighter. Can you un-do all the skill points? What about the Bonus feat you didn't get?

Option #2: Roll a Fighter with CE, run up to Level 10 or so, then splash 1 Level of Rogue, and drop all 10 skill points into UMD... you now havea maxxed out UMD... then @ 14, I want to spec out the Rogue Level, and take Fighter... how to handle that?

Option #3: Take Ranger 2, thne go Fighter all the way to 14, taking ITWF & GTWF... then I spec out Ranger 2 for Fighter 13... I just lost the pre-requisite for ITWF & GTWF? It also changed when I should have received all my bonus feats, making respeccing a mess... and, what happens when I spec out the final Ranger level for a Fighter Level, will the game know to give me a Fighter Bonus Feat?


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The problem is that a "Class" or "Level" Respec will break WAY too many things in the game.
You would need to implement a "Full-Character-Respec" Option (ie. strip down to Level 1, and re-level up all 14 levels, one at a time) in order to do it at all.

Agreed the only way to do it is a full respec. Maybe handling int tomes by creating a bound min level tome that can only be used after you train up to the level you got it before might work, all other tomes can just be left on the stat at level one as they do not affect skills like int tomes do.

I would pay for the follwing as a premium service

all that stays is race, if it was a 28 point build and you now have 32 point builds you get 32 points for respec, all gear and tomes stay on character. Then go from trainer to trainer to rebuild your character

[MysticTheurge]

Agreed the only way to do it is a full respec.

Well, yes and no.

It'd be relatively easy to do a "Last Level Only" type class respec.

But I guess you're right, that doing anything else would require a more full rebuild.