AI Fixes. and spell requests

[Swordalot]

Just ignore them, casters all want an easy button. Far be it for any of the enemy mobs to use are tactics. Wimps

I'll go for mobs using tactics, if they are toned down so that they aren't doing obscene damage every hit, and hitting my caster on a roll of a two (unless he's displaced. But that's different). Yes, I specifically mean the ogres and trolls. The fact that I, on my caster, can easily be two- or -three shotted by these enemies is the reason I dislike the idea of them converging on me.

Also, why don't you just make *another* thread saying "I hate casters and here's how we'll make playing them suck"?

[Taojeff]

I'll go for mobs using tactics, if they are toned down so that they aren't doing obscene damage every hit, and hitting my caster on a roll of a two (unless he's displaced. But that's different). Yes, I specifically mean the ogres and trolls. The fact that I, on my caster, can easily be two- or -three shotted by these enemies is the reason I dislike the idea of them converging on me.

Also, why don't you just make *another* thread saying "I hate casters and here's how we'll make playing them suck"?

I do not hate casters. I like casters, I just think they unbalance the game. Nothing wrong with a few checks and balances. These are just ideas for the developers. Some times you have to use the door in your face technique to get a response. You start with something really crazy and work your way down.

Btw. I scripted similar techniques into my NWN campaign. And guess what, the casters learned to deal with it. And any intelligent mob would consider the caster the most threat...we do? When your the top dog, people are always trying to take you down.

You want to be able to do all the damage, have a nigh unlimited source of mana, have no real checks and balances as compared to PnP, plus you wanna have the enemy mobs to stupid to deal with you as a threat. I am sorry, I am never ever going to agree with that.

Btw, the reason I started this thread is about enemy AI. I would like to see an improvement in the enemy AI. This is something I have been personally asking for since before giant-hold when they came out with the first pathing AI update.

The most needed changes in AI are concerning AOE behavoir. It should be dispellable, and enemies should no to do it. I makes little sense to have a caster smart enough to cast spells (high int and all), but not enough sense to use them effectively. Especially if your operating on the assumption that said caster was not born a 12th level wizard or what not but actually had to achieve the levels....you kind of think he would be adept at choosing spells.

Oh, and some of those mobs hit everyone like that, save for very high AC tank builds etc. You gotta juke and dodge. I know its hard being a caster. And yeah, just because you start out with the aggro does not mean that it will stay like that. Intimidate of course...diplomacy...etc. And archers should always go for casters.....seems like this should be the default behavoir. Kind of a rock paper scissor thing.....especially if they fixed the Range bug so that things actually hit when the target is moving. You know what I am talking about the...no roll to hit bug on range.



......
More AI Changes I would like to see

• More use of combat tactics all around. Come on some of these guys are CR 20, you think they would have masters some of the stun, trip techniques by now. I see them used, it just feels like so rarely
• I would like to see mroe stalker like behavoir. Rangers and Rogues sneaking in and setting up ambushes attacking them running away to fade back into the shadows.
• I would like to see more alarms and run to get reinforcement or lead PC's into a trap kind of behavior

[Swordalot]

*snip*
I scripted similar techniques into my NWN campaign. And guess what, the casters learned to deal with it. And any intelligent mob would consider the caster the most threat...we do? When your the top dog, people are always trying to take you down.

*snip*
More AI Changes I would like to see

• More use of combat tactics all around. Come on some of these guys are CR 20, you think they would have masters some of the stun, trip techniques by now. I see them used, it just feels like so rarely
• I would like to see more stalker like behavior. Rangers and Rogues sneaking in and setting up ambushes attacking them running away to fade back into the shadows.
• I would like to see more alarms and run to get reinforcement or lead PC's into a trap kind of behavior

For the first part, I understand that, but enemies in Neverwinter are scaled to the level of the players. They don't (generally) have many hundreds of hp, nor do they have a +40 to-hit until very late game. They also follow a decreasing to-hit progression like PCs do. Unless, of course, you scripted them (enemies) differently too.

The red part I absolutely agree. Tactics need to be utilized to force us, the playerbase, to use tactics to solve a quest. I'm disgusted by the damage my Firewall does, but the solution isn't as radical as telling the enemies, "Oh look, caster. Go pwn his butt right away," simply because tanks don't tend to play like mine, the role of the intimitank. The caster will die easily (unless they have a skilled tank or a cleric with deep pockets) and will be discouraged. If this change is made, it must be done gradually, a few mobs here and there, then more and more, over several weeks to allow people to adjust.

Level 17 ranger-class enemies should utilize Hide in Plain Sight occasionally, as should rogues. More alarms would be good, especially if the players could trigger them at a distance and follow it up with, say, Mass Hold Person. I'm in favor of smart mobs, just not mobs at their current power level with the current mass-suckage of tanks' abilities to hold aggro (No offense. Our spells just do a lot. Intimitanks, however, rock on many levels.).

[Taojeff]

For the first part, I understand that, but enemies in Neverwinter are scaled to the level of the players. They don't (generally) have many hundreds of hp, nor do they have a +40 to-hit until very late game. They also follow a decreasing to-hit progression like PCs do. Unless, of course, you scripted them (enemies) differently too.

The red part I absolutely agree. Tactics need to be utilized to force us, the playerbase, to use tactics to solve a quest. I'm disgusted by the damage my Firewall does, but the solution isn't as radical as telling the enemies, "Oh look, caster. Go pwn his butt right away," simply because tanks don't tend to play like mine, the role of the intimitank. The caster will die easily (unless they have a skilled tank or a cleric with deep pockets) and will be discouraged. If this change is made, it must be done gradually, a few mobs here and there, then more and more, over several weeks to allow people to adjust.

Level 17 ranger-class enemies should utilize Hide in Plain Sight occasionally, as should rogues. More alarms would be good, especially if the players could trigger them at a distance and follow it up with, say, Mass Hold Person. I'm in favor of smart mobs, just not mobs at their current power level with the current mass-suckage of tanks' abilities to hold aggro (No offense. Our spells just do a lot. Intimitanks, however, rock on many levels.).

Yeah, I agree...you gotta do stuff in stages. Which would not really be a problem as to get enough fixes in to balance the game, i expect it to take a mod or 3.

Hide-in-plain site would be great. I was wondering if Rangers were going to get it, still I think it will suck for players with the current implementation of stealth. But that is another thread.

I also think it woudl be cool for enemies and players to be able to set Snares, traps, and use nets dynamically instead of having traps have to be pre-built into the module. And no the snare spell is not a happy medium.

Yeah, the mobs in NWN were much closer to PnP and so were the players, which leads to the root of the all these problems in the first place. The thing countless people have said from the get go of this game, which I am sure the devs are tired of hearing. So I am going to stop there with the inference.

[Yukiko]

Dude how many of these type of threads do we have to put up with.

We get it we get it, you think casters are over powered ....

Hahaha, Looking at the thread creation history, it seems your right about the over posting of this topic from select individuals...

[Geonis]

Oh, look another one of these?

My thoughts on the issue:


The person who sticks or slashes things with a pointy metal stick, is and never should be, the equal of the person who rearranges the building blocks of the universe at their whim.

[Josh]

Dude how many of these type of threads do we have to put up with.

Comments like this make me laugh. As if you are being forced to read his thread or something... If you don't like it, kindly move along and ignore it. The OP has just as much of a right to post as you do to ignore him. Stop acting like you are the forum police and go on about your day.

[Josh]

A GREAT use of BE!

I alway have my party stand still if a BB goes up as I WILL remove it. Much better to dispell then take the damage and heal it.

LOL, how in the hell does Break Enchantment remove AOE spells? BE only works on enchantments, transmutations, and curses. Last time I checked, FW, BB, and the like are none of those.

[Taojeff]

LOL, how in the hell does Break Enchantment remove AOE spells? BE only works on enchantments, transmutations, and curses. Last time I checked, FW, BB, and the like are none of those.

Yeah but I think it currently does. I think the correct way would be to use dispel magic and greater dispel, but that does not have a AOE effect.

[Hendrik]

LOL, how in the hell does Break Enchantment remove AOE spells? BE only works on enchantments, transmutations, and curses. Last time I checked, FW, BB, and the like are none of those.

You are incorrect.

BE works on all the AOE spells mentioned. Not only does it work on those spells, it will also remove individual 'compulsion' spells, such as Otto's Dance and various Charms.

[Kaldais]

I also believe any intelligent casting monsters should immediately spam Otto's irresistable dance on any melee come to close range, then spam mass held person until all party members are held, then kill every single one of those blasted evil advanturers dare to invade their home. After those advanturers are dead they should be looted of any valuable possesions to enhance monsters' coffer. Then the soul stones of the advanturers should be tossed down to the deep pits of lava, while their souls trapped in the gem and to be used in future evil experiments.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

As long as they add Protection from Arrows and Repulsion, sure.

Now that's a great idea!

I don't think the baddies should automatically know who a caster is, but I am for (Highly) intelligent baddies targeting casters after they cast spells on them.....not to the exclusion of everything else......and maybe not more than they already do.
But the baddies should have to find (see) the casters....not just have ESP to know who and where he just got cast on from.
Also the casters need some defense.....protection from arrows should definately be in this game......and if the baddies had it, it would neuter rangers/archers a little (a lot)...and maybe justify giving them back the rate of fire they deserve.

How about telekinesis as a spell we can cast?! Beholders have it, so there must be some game mechanics for it already.....might fill in for repulsion.

[Taojeff]

I also believe any intelligent casting monsters should immediately spam Otto's irresistable dance on any melee come to close range, then spam mass held person until all party members are held, then kill every single one of those blasted evil advanturers dare to invade their home. After those advanturers are dead they should be looted of any valuable possesions to enhance monsters' coffer. Then the soul stones of the advanturers should be tossed down to the deep pits of lava, while their souls trapped in the gem and to be used in future evil experiments.

They do cast mass hold-person. And the other spells would work too, might fix the min/max alot of people do on some melee chars.

[Taojeff]

Now that's a great idea!

I don't think the baddies should automatically know who a caster is, but I am for (Highly) intelligent baddies targeting casters after they cast spells on them.....not to the exclusion of everything else......and maybe not more than they already do.
But the baddies should have to find (see) the casters....not just have ESP to know who and where he just got cast on from.
Also the casters need some defense.....protection from arrows should definately be in this game......and if the baddies had it, it would neuter rangers/archers a little (a lot)...and maybe justify giving them back the rate of fire they deserve.

How about telekinesis as a spell we can cast?! Beholders have it, so there must be some game mechanics for it already.....might fill in for repulsion.

I would love to see telekinesis used both by players and more by monsters. While we are at it can we give clerics some of the spells they are missing like holy word. And do not get me started on Rangers not having entangle.


Hey and how come enemy mobs never really use barkskin.

I hope in the next module we will see enemy rangers using rams might, barkskin, spike growth, etc.