Trolls, Flamers and Bullies.

[Ozark_Spellmaster]

I'm a little to vicious for the Devs

[Dimz]

No, I know what I wrote. Calling someone that who is not mentally handicapped is deragatory, calling someone who is mentally handicapped is not the same at all. They are. You'd have to work in my field long enough to understand this.

I said, "You work with the mentally handicapped..." I never said anything about you or someone who is NOT handicapped that.

[Quanefel]

I said, "You work with the mentally handicapped..." I never said anything about you or someone who is NOT handicapped that.

Maybe I misread what you originally wrote about the mentally handicapped. If I did, I apologize.

Off topic, was it you who needed some +3 burst longswords? If so, meet me in game when you can as I need to empty some bank accounts on a toon. She has too many sitting around going unused. If not, I need to go find that thread for the person who was looking for them.

[Azoralq]

If the good people at Turbine would just shut down this forum, there would be no more trolling. Furthermore.

if the good people at Turbine would shut down this game, there would be no more bad players trying to sneak into guilds, and steal rosters. Maybe the good people at Turbine should come up with a highly complex screening application, allowing only those that pass such application to enjoy the game.

Look at me, I just solved the world's problems.

[Ghoste]

If the good people at Turbine would just shut down this forum, there would be no more trolling. Furthermore.

if the good people at Turbine would shut down this game, there would be no more bad players trying to sneak into guilds, and steal rosters. Maybe the good people at Turbine should come up with a highly complex screening application, allowing only those that pass such application to enjoy the game.

Look at me, I just solved the world's problems.

ie, only let the leet play. Brilliant...

[Dimz]

ie, only let the leet play. Brilliant...

Many Players wuold be gone... including almost everyone in this post.. Cept me!

[Cuchilo]

I write this to ask the other players on our server what they think about poor behaviour of some of those on our servers. I am sure a few of you know what I am talking about. I fully expect these certian players to be flooding this thread to get it removed as quickly as they can because they simply do not like opinions of others that is not their own. Some people are like that and I can seeing it in these forums more and more.

Could you please define poor behaviour? I am not sure what you are talking about. Do you mean players dropping mid quest? Players not contributing to the group? Players who zerg? Players who aegue with the group leader? Players who don't offer raid loot for rolls? Players who do offer raid loot for rolls? Players who don't raid with strangers? I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean people not sharing raid loot, and/or people being argumentative and provocative in game. I base these assumptions on the threads you have posted previously. I'm going to go ahead and state my view for you as requested. Again. I feel that raid loot is owned by the player who pulled it, and that he or she has every right to do whatever they like with it, from using it to selling it to leaving it in the chest. I feel that we should all try to get along and not provoke or attack anybody else via /tells, party chat or voice chat. If this happens to you, I feel that you should contact a GM, and have them look into it. They will take action if it is merited. You can also avail yourself of the /squelch function.

As to people flooding your posts to deliberately gag you by having your threads closed, do you think it is perhaps possible that the moderators of the board thought your original post in each case was provoking negative responses in general and closed the thread because of your posts? If you have evidence that the threads were indeed closed due to a conspiracy against you, please share.

Personally I like other opinions and thoughts of other people. I enjoy to debate with people freely, it can be fun. Yet why when I try to post my thoughts and opinions in this forum, following the rules the best I can...other people out there are so opposed to any opinion other than their own that to them its no holds barred in shutting others up if they do not agree with them? At times, they will even get their uninformed friends to go along with them blindly to swarm a thread and bully, inflame and troll anyone in a thread that does not share their thoughts for the sole purpose of taking down a thread so no more people can read it?

Having followed all of your recent threads, I am confused as to the last paragraph. You state that you enjoy debate and the sharing of opinions, but then later seem to complain about the opinions of others who don't match yours. Do you really think that there are people out there who not only disagree with you, but also take your posts so seriously that they collaborate and by design foil your threads? I personally find that hard to believe.

It does not even stop there. Closing a thread for them is not enough, they will go to our server and badmouth, lie, manipulate or anything they can to "punish" those who dare question them or their actions. Out of fear on their part I imagine. These type of people like to think they are so much better than the rest of us and they can do whatever they want to others without anyone fighting back against them. Lies, threats, harrassement, etc is not above people like this. Why do we put up with these people? Why are good players turning a blind eye to them or giving their actions a free pass when most will even agree that these people were not the nicest people on the server to begin with. Here is how I am seeing his.

Have you been the victim of abuse in game? I'm not sure what I'm turning a blind eye to as I haven't seen anything untoward happening and you haven't mentioned any new facts. What am I missing if anything?

Certian people are not well liked for being mean, disrepectful and rude to others. These certian people or person does something horrid, someone catches them and calls them out on it and all of a sudden this horrid person and friends become extra defensive for being stood up to, then all of a sudden they become angels? Like all of their past misdeeds can be overlooked after they go out in full force to convince others that they are not really the bad people they have been to other players this whole time? I do not want to give anyone the impression that everyone is on these certian players side. From all the private messages and ingame tells I know most are good people and are not going to put up with these certain peoples behaviour. Even if these certian people are working overtime to smear anyone who stands up to them.

For the third time, what would you have the community do to or about these bad people? How do we decide who is bad? Do we just get to post their names on the forums and say they were bad? Do we need screenshots? How do we deal with all of these bad people? Do we black list them? Do we not play with them? It is a little difficult to take your ball and go gome in an MMO, but I am open to suggestions if you have something that can work.

For all those players out there who think they can push people around, bully them, talk down them, treat them however they feel, did you really think you could keep on doing this to other players before they stood up against you and fought back? I am not calling for a blacklisting of anyone, that was not my reason for writing this. Besides, its against the rules to publicly blacklist guilds or players. No, I write this in the hopes that players who act horrid to others to, who treat other players who are new like they are all tards and rememeber one thing. We all were new to this game at one time. Were you treated like a newbie at some point, probably but that does not mean you can treat other newbies as they are nothing but tards. Ignore new players or...*gasp* help them out some? Is that really all that hard to do?

Im interested to know whether or not you have personally ever used the reporting system in game to report bad behaviour or abuse. Have you? What happened when you have, or why not if you haven't?

[eaten by cube]

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

For all those players out there who think they can push people around, bully them, talk down them, treat them however they feel, did you really think you could keep on doing this to other players before they stood up against you and fought back?

Many people have taken an immature approach in responding to your initial post. However, you need to realize the age group and/or mentality of some that play DDO in the first place, and the egos that exist on the forums. Many are "Tough guys" on the forums, but TOTALLY different in the game.

But you need to look at what you posted. It has a George Bush overtone. It's the "I'm a good guy and I'm going to make the WHOLE WORLD good and safe." It's a mission that will NEVER BE ACCOMPLISHED. Why? Because people are people. No 2 are alike. We have different beliefs. We act in different ways. What George Bush and you dont seem to understand, you cant change the beliefs of others. In DDO's case, its only a game, have fun with the majority of who you play with and 'F the others. Dont let them get your strings in a bunch. 'F em.

[Quanefel]

Could you please define poor behaviour? I am not sure what you are talking about. Do you mean players dropping mid quest? Players not contributing to the group? Players who zerg? Players who aegue with the group leader? Players who don't offer raid loot for rolls? Players who do offer raid loot for rolls? Players who don't raid with strangers? I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean people not sharing raid loot, and/or people being argumentative and provocative in game. I base these assumptions on the threads you have posted previously. I'm going to go ahead and state my view for you as requested. Again. I feel that raid loot is owned by the player who pulled it, and that he or she has every right to do whatever they like with it, from using it to selling it to leaving it in the chest. I feel that we should all try to get along and not provoke or attack anybody else via /tells, party chat or voice chat. If this happens to you, I feel that you should contact a GM, and have them look into it. They will take action if it is merited. You can also avail yourself of the /squelch function.

As to people flooding your posts to deliberately gag you by having your threads closed, do you think it is perhaps possible that the moderators of the board thought your original post in each case was provoking negative responses in general and closed the thread because of your posts? If you have evidence that the threads were indeed closed due to a conspiracy against you, please share.



Having followed all of your recent threads, I am confused as to the last paragraph. You state that you enjoy debate and the sharing of opinions, but then later seem to complain about the opinions of others who don't match yours. Do you really think that there are people out there who not only disagree with you, but also take your posts so seriously that they collaborate and by design foil your threads? I personally find that hard to believe.



Have you been the victim of abuse in game? I'm not sure what I'm turning a blind eye to as I haven't seen anything untoward happening and you haven't mentioned any new facts. What am I missing if anything?



For the third time, what would you have the community do to or about these bad people? How do we decide who is bad? Do we just get to post their names on the forums and say they were bad? Do we need screenshots? How do we deal with all of these bad people? Do we black list them? Do we not play with them? It is a little difficult to take your ball and go gome in an MMO, but I am open to suggestions if you have something that can work.



Im interested to know whether or not you have personally ever used the reporting system in game to report bad behaviour or abuse. Have you? What happened when you have, or why not if you haven't?



This seems to be a completely separate issue to me, and perhaps you should bring it up in its own thread.

Before I start, I'd like to say...you ask more questions than even I do. And I thought I asked more questions than what was normal. O.O


Example of poor behaviour: You gather a pug group for a GH loot run of TBF. For the purpose of not just loot but to offer a chance at some newbies in GH to get a chance to understand the quests AND put some PP in their pockets. One certian player is an exeperienced player and while you are running said quest, this player insists on private messaging me rude comments about "The stupid noobs" in MY group. He acknownledges I am a good player and that I know my game(Maybe to butter me up?) but his comments do NOT win me over nor will I ever go along with talking down to my team memebers. Its bad form and just plain rude. If you are a part of any party I am in or leading, you will be treated fairly and given the chance to contribute to the quest. Someone wants to zerg and leave everyone to fend for themselves, thats NOT teamwork. If you want to zerg while in a group, drop and zerg solo. Never think I will accept bad behaviour in my party.


Example #2: You are leading another group in-game with newbies of course. The experienced cleric of the group decides for himself to not only zerg but to drag every single creature back to the rest of the party who clearly are not ready to face that amount of mobs at once. Party starts dropping like flies and I am doing my best to not only protect the rest of the party from being wiped out but watching as this same zerging cleric not offering to heal ANYONE but himself. When I ask this cleric after repeated times why he is doing all of this, his response: "Me and my brother solo this all the time!" Ok one, you are not playing with your brother and two...you are with a group, your are not soloing this quest. Act as a team player or find another group to "solo" with. Is teamwork such a hard concept for some people to grasp?

Example #3: You see an LFM up asking for any time of class. You send a polite tell to the leader, "May I join you all?" Simple yet polite. Said leader response back to you in a snotty tone: "I don't know, can you?" Really, did that person need to act like that? Then when I told this person: "Ok, guess not. Good luck then." I join another group and kindly asked anyone in the group if they know this particular person. Everyone in the party starts going off about this said person with not so kind words. How this said person is just a kid and other things I do not care to mention. Well, I got a little upset not just for them being rude about this said person but giving me more than I was really asking for. A simple, yeah we know him would have worked just as well.

Example #4: A few weeks ago "someone" from another guild that I do not care for(Personal reasons) decided to spread a lie to 3 of my guildmates. For the sole purpose to get these three to join their guild. I do not have issues with anyone leaving my guild, but to have lies spread about something I NEVER said is a bit much. These guildies took this persons word before even bothering to ask me, even though we all made up and they later admitted that they I would never lie to them or talk smack about them. That they should have just asked me personally, they know I don't lie but were so upset they just turned and walked away. It all came about from someone I talked to "misunderstanding" a convo I had with them. From me saying "I am not ready to lead my guild through any raid because I am not familar enough with them to put my guild through a failed raid" To somehow being: "My guildmates are all a bunch of morons and I have no desire to lead a bunch of stupid newbies through a raid" See how a person or guild leader would be a wee bit upset at something like that?

About raid loot. For the record, I could give a rats behind about raid loot for myself. Never cared for any, never will. Is raid loot nice to have? Sure. But I will not obsess over raid loot or go out of my way for it. If it is a tome my toon could use, of course I will take it. Other than a tome, I am usually yawning at any other raid loot that might drop for me. Now, I fully agree any raid loot that drops for someone in a chest is theirs completely to do as they please. I like the new system because of the past, the "Leader" of a Raid almost ALWAYS tilted raid loot chances towards his or her guildmates. We all know that is how it was. No more pretending it was not set up unfairly to all us Pugs in a raid. That being said, if something drops in a raid there is nothing wrong with asking politely if they could roll for it. Or even asking innocently if they were suppose to roll for it at all. Now again, what yours in a chest is yours. No agruement there. Yelling, mocking, cussing, etc is not really needed when someone asks politely IF they were suppose to roll for it. Not knowing what the owner was going to do with it, if anything at all. I always say, there is no harm in asking. Its different if it was me being yelled at. I have some tough skin. Growing up with tons of brothers kind of does that. You could cuss at me all day and it wouldn't faze me one bit. Now, carring on like that when you don't know if the other players might be ladies or KIDS. In fact, acting like that in any party is un-called for period. Kids play this game, you just don't know who you are really playing with.

I know you might find it hard to believe that people are purposely out to destroy my threads. Yet is by no means a stretch of the truth to understand it does in fact happen here. All the time. There are a few people who's sole purpose is to destroy threads which they are mighty proud of doing. The fact many of my threads were closed by the same exact people each time doing the same exact flaming just to close my threads is very real.

I am not well liked from awhile ago when I posted about plat farmers. Those who did not share my opinion of plat farmers being a bane to this game had no problem taking their dim veiw of my opinions into the game to harrasse AND try to get my account banned outright. Purposely making a toon to "appear" like a plat farmer just to claim we "harrassed" him. When we spotted him and knew right away what he was trying to do and knew he was not a real plat farmer, he actually got mad because we ignored him! As my brother and I were sitting around talking about family matters, this person proceeds to send private messages to my brother claiming my brother was "harrassing" him and he was getting in touch with a GM to report him. My brother was confused and thought this guy was off his rocker. Neither one of us were going to take his bait and when we didn't, this person tried to threaten us. Nice aint it? So I sent him a private tell asking what his problem was and why he was harrassing my brother. It is the right thing to do since he is my brother but I am also the guild leader. I have to take the lead and try to resolve the matter. Well, this person proceeds to tell me this was not my problem and that he was reporting me also. I responded one more time, if he decided to do that it was fine but he also needed to be reminded that all chat is recorded and a GM will see the truth of his claims. If they were not true HE would be in trouble himself. He quickly made some comment like "Ok, whatever. You both suck" kind of statement and logged off. He was in the wrong and he knew it. That kind of behavior my brother and I have come to expect in the forums and in-game. We are getting use to it.

In-game help from GM's: Do I really need to explain the lack of help from ANY GM in-game about any issue. I think we all have about the same lack of help from them so I rarely have faith in their "help". I don't send tickets in to report harrassement or anything else, not for the reason I described. No, I would like to think people will change and not act horrible. I personally do not want to see anyone banned for things. Even plat buyers. Do I like them? No. But our player base is slowly shrinking. Loosing another one for any reason is not the answer to the problem. It also goes to treating new or newer players better. If we who think we are all "elite" or experienced would stop treating newbies like trash they may not leave the game because of this unfriendly behaviour. It does not take much to show a bit of kindness to new players and old alike to encourage more players to sticking around here. The more the merrier. The more money in Turbine's pocket, the more content we might get like we ALL want.

And no, I have never been harrassed to the point that I would actually care enough about it. If I did, I would have quit long ago.

[RictrasShard]

How does somebody write a tell in a snotty tone?

[Quanefel]

How does somebody write a tell in a snotty tone?

By the way I described it above. If you read the rest of the paragragh, the other players who knew this person all basically said he normally acts like that towards people. So it was not just me and I was right in thinking his comment was a bit snotty.

[Svetelana]

Before I start, I'd like to say...you ask more questions than even I do. And I thought I asked more questions than what was normal. O.O


Example of poor behaviour: You gather a pug group for a GH loot run of TBF. For the purpose of not just loot but to offer a chance at some newbies in GH to get a chance to understand the quests AND put some PP in their pockets. One certian player is an exeperienced player and while you are running said quest, this player insists on private messaging me rude comments about "The stupid noobs" in MY group. He acknownledges I am a good player and that I know my game(Maybe to butter me up?) but his comments do NOT win me over nor will I ever go along with talking down to my team memebers. Its bad form and just plain rude. If you are a part of any party I am in or leading, you will be treated fairly and given the chance to contribute to the quest. Someone wants to zerg and leave everyone to fend for themselves, thats NOT teamwork. If you want to zerg while in a group, drop and zerg solo. Never think I will accept bad behaviour in my party.


Example #2: You are leading another group in-game with newbies of course. The experienced cleric of the group decides for himself to not only zerg but to drag every single creature back to the rest of the party who clearly are not ready to face that amount of mobs at once. Party starts dropping like flies and I am doing my best to not only protect the rest of the party from being wiped out but watching as this same zerging cleric not offering to heal ANYONE but himself. When I ask this cleric after repeated times why he is doing all of this, his response: "Me and my brother solo this all the time!" Ok one, you are not playing with your brother and two...you are with a group, your are not soloing this quest. Act as a team player or find another group to "solo" with. Is teamwork such a hard concept for some people to grasp?

Example #3: You see an LFM up asking for any time of class. You send a polite tell to the leader, "May I join you all?" Simple yet polite. Said leader response back to you in a snotty tone: "I don't know, can you?" Really, did that person need to act like that? Then when I told this person: "Ok, guess not. Good luck then." I join another group and kindly asked anyone in the group if they know this particular person. Everyone in the party starts going off about this said person with not so kind words. How this said person is just a kid and other things I do not care to mention. Well, I got a little upset not just for them being rude about this said person but giving me more than I was really asking for. A simple, yeah we know him would have worked just as well.

Example #4: A few weeks ago "someone" from another guild that I do not care for(Personal reasons) decided to spread a lie to 3 of my guildmates. For the sole purpose to get these three to join their guild. I do not have issues with anyone leaving my guild, but to have lies spread about something I NEVER said is a bit much. These guildies took this persons word before even bothering to ask me, even though we all made up and they later admitted that they I would never lie to them or talk smack about them. That they should have just asked me personally, they know I don't lie but were so upset they just turned and walked away. It all came about from someone I talked to "misunderstanding" a convo I had with them. From me saying "I am not ready to lead my guild through any raid because I am not familar enough with them to put my guild through a failed raid" To somehow being: "My guildmates are all a bunch of morons and I have no desire to lead a bunch of stupid newbies through a raid" See how a person or guild leader would be a wee bit upset at something like that?

About raid loot. For the record, I could give a rats behind about raid loot for myself. Never cared for any, never will. Is raid loot nice to have? Sure. But I will not obsess over raid loot or go out of my way for it. If it is a tome my toon could use, of course I will take it. Other than a tome, I am usually yawning at any other raid loot that might drop for me. Now, I fully agree any raid loot that drops for someone in a chest is theirs completely to do as they please. I like the new system because of the past, the "Leader" of a Raid almost ALWAYS tilted raid loot chances towards his or her guildmates. We all know that is how it was. No more pretending it was not set up unfairly to all us Pugs in a raid. That being said, if something drops in a raid there is nothing wrong with asking politely if they could roll for it. Or even asking innocently if they were suppose to roll for it at all. Now again, what yours in a chest is yours. No agruement there. Yelling, mocking, cussing, etc is not really needed when someone asks politely IF they were suppose to roll for it. Not knowing what the owner was going to do with it, if anything at all. I always say, there is no harm in asking. Its different if it was me being yelled at. I have some tough skin. Growing up with tons of brothers kind of does that. You could cuss at me all day and it wouldn't faze me one bit. Now, carring on like that when you don't know if the other players might be ladies or KIDS. In fact, acting like that in any party is un-called for period. Kids play this game, you just don't know who you are really playing with.

I know you might find it hard to believe that people are purposely out to destroy my threads. Yet is by no means a stretch of the truth to understand it does in fact happen here. All the time. There are a few people who's sole purpose is to destroy threads which they are mighty proud of doing. The fact many of my threads were closed by the same exact people each time doing the same exact flaming just to close my threads is very real.

I am not well liked from awhile ago when I posted about plat farmers. Those who did not share my opinion of plat farmers being a bane to this game had no problem taking their dim veiw of my opinions into the game to harrasse AND try to get my account banned outright. Purposely making a toon to "appear" like a plat farmer just to claim we "harrassed" him. When we spotted him and knew right away what he was trying to do and knew he was not a real plat farmer, he actually got mad because we ignored him! As my brother and I were sitting around talking about family matters, this person proceeds to send private messages to my brother claiming my brother was "harrassing" him and he was getting in touch with a GM to report him. My brother was confused and thought this guy was off his rocker. Neither one of us were going to take his bait and when we didn't, this person tried to threaten us. Nice aint it? So I sent him a private tell asking what his problem was and why he was harrassing my brother. It is the right thing to do since he is my brother but I am also the guild leader. I have to take the lead and try to resolve the matter. Well, this person proceeds to tell me this was not my problem and that he was reporting me also. I responded one more time, if he decided to do that it was fine but he also needed to be reminded that all chat is recorded and a GM will see the truth of his claims. If they were not true HE would be in trouble himself. He quickly made some comment like "Ok, whatever. You both suck" kind of statement and logged off. He was in the wrong and he knew it. That kind of behavior my brother and I have come to expect in the forums and in-game. We are getting use to it.

In-game help from GM's: Do I really need to explain the lack of help from ANY GM in-game about any issue. I think we all have about the same lack of help from them so I rarely have faith in their "help". I don't send tickets in to report harrassement or anything else, not for the reason I described. No, I would like to think people will change and not act horrible. I personally do not want to see anyone banned for things. Even plat buyers. Do I like them? No. But our player base is slowly shrinking. Loosing another one for any reason is not the answer to the problem. It also goes to treating new or newer players better. If we who think we are all "elite" or experienced would stop treating newbies like trash they may not leave the game because of this unfriendly behaviour. It does not take much to show a bit of kindness to new players and old alike to encourage more players to sticking around here. The more the merrier. The more money in Turbine's pocket, the more content we might get like we ALL want.

And no, I have never been harrassed to the point that I would actually care enough about it. If I did, I would have quit long ago.

ZOINKS! lol

[Kire]

Example of poor behaviour: You gather a pug group for a GH loot run of TBF. For the purpose of not just loot but to offer a chance at some newbies in GH to get a chance to understand the quests AND put some PP in their pockets. One certian player is an exeperienced player and while you are running said quest, this player insists on private messaging me rude comments about "The stupid noobs" in MY group. He acknownledges I am a good player and that I know my game(Maybe to butter me up?) but his comments do NOT win me over nor will I ever go along with talking down to my team memebers. Its bad form and just plain rude. If you are a part of any party I am in or leading, you will be treated fairly and given the chance to contribute to the quest. Someone wants to zerg and leave everyone to fend for themselves, thats NOT teamwork. If you want to zerg while in a group, drop and zerg solo. Never think I will accept bad behaviour in my party.

Before i write an intelligent response just let me explain why im only quoting this part:

When i begin reading a thread i usually read the opening post completely (no matter the length) and then skim the long responses to figure out where they stand. The shorter responses i read completely. When i look at a response i determine how much of it i can read (based on length) before i go outside, strangle myself in a swing, then stab myself in the kidney with a Spork all the time watching a dog maul a man in a suit thats supposed to protect him (The initial screams when they first tried the suit should of clued then into the fact that it DOESN'T WORK).

What i have quoted is all that i estimated i could stand. I (being an idiot) read it all. So, as i write this i am holding my kidney and laughing. Alot. Please do you best to read this as i may need to steal someone's kidney after i am done.

Now to my intelligent response:

You sir are wrong. I would use more antagonizing words, but you see, the only thing i hate more then Repetive threads are pink ponies. I couldn't have one as a child. I do not want one now.

Although it can be rude to talk about people behind their back, Please do not act like you haven't. Although i have no real way to know if you haven't or have, the safe bet is that you have. It's part of the DDO experience. Just like losing all your money in front of 20-30 people is part of the Vegas experience. It's un-stopable. However you should laugh about it after a bottle of whiskey, the way you should laugh about a coupel noobs after a 30-40 min TBF run.

Now to teh zerg part. Zerging is a way to play. You wish everyone to have their own rights. Well zerging is one of them. I zerg. i'm pretty efficient at it. Most ppl are. Now you ask people not to zerg in your group. You ask them to go solo. The way you do not enjoy Zerger's in your groups is the way most people feel about newbs in their groups. If (by the time you are in GiantHold) you do not know how to run up to a troll and swing, you should go to von 3 and practice. If you can't cast repetive firewalls in the middle of a mob of mobs, go practice in Kobold Assualt.

Everyone has a chance to contribute to a quest. If, however, some ppl are not then Other people (zergers?) might speed up to get teh quest over faster. Why? it's not enjoyable to party with newbs. Newbs like to party with newbs. Thats just about everyone who likes to party with newbs.

Everyone should be able to fend for themselves in some way or another, via pots, wands, clickies, and/or dragonmarks. Why? because there are some not so good players in teh game who do not play the role the party needs. Good players can normally play different roles for different parties. For example my tank can boost up his ac to take all the agro, Pull out a two hander to break down mobs health or even pull out a para and start using some CC. My tank can even heal. He can pop off heal scrolls and wands and keep a decent party on its feet.

Now can you please explain how zerging is bad behavior? please. I can understand how talking to the party leader in tells can be "bad" but its not game breaking and/or party ruining. This game would be alot better if quite a few people could learn to take a joke or two.

Now to those of you who have suffered through this long, smelly post i am sorry about the strangulation marks and the broken sporks. Please send all medical bills to Quanefel, for not letting a horse with a broken leg die.

~Kire

[Quanefel]

Many people have taken an immature approach in responding to your initial post. However, you need to realize the age group and/or mentality of some that play DDO in the first place, and the egos that exist on the forums. Many are "Tough guys" on the forums, but TOTALLY different in the game.

But you need to look at what you posted. It has a George Bush overtone. It's the "I'm a good guy and I'm going to make the WHOLE WORLD good and safe." It's a mission that will NEVER BE ACCOMPLISHED. Why? Because people are people. No 2 are alike. We have different beliefs. We act in different ways. What George Bush and you dont seem to understand, you cant change the beliefs of others. In DDO's case, its only a game, have fun with the majority of who you play with and 'F the others. Dont let them get your strings in a bunch. 'F em.

Thank you for your comments. Its much appreciated. I fully understand the age group/mentality of some of the players and forum posters. Believe me, I do. It goes well to my point that saying certain things or behaving in certain ways when none of us truly do not know if their are kids or ladies behind the toon that is grouped with you. Each one of us can decide for themselves if its ok for your child to be around cursing. But none of us have the right to make that decision for anyone else's child.

I do look at all I write and try to think clearly before I hit the submit botton. Yet my posts are not any type of "George Bush" type posts. Ick, are you just wanting to insult me? lol Anyways, I never said I was a perfect good guy or perfect in any way. I am far from being perfect and I will be the first to admit it. I still make noobish moves inside quests once in awhile. Even when I know about 90% of quests so well I could do them blindfolded. I understand how you might think I might be trying to change how everyone thinks but I know I can't do that. Yet, I can not have a defeatest attitude because something might seem too difficult. If anything, if something seems to hard it only makes me work harder on the problem. I have no desire to really change the beliefs of others. I do have a desire to get players to show a little respect towards each other and stop with the elitest type attitudes. No matter how good I think I "might" be in this game, no matter how Elite others have called me because of my knowledge of this game. Never, never will I think I am the best or better than anyone else for that matter.

[Kire]

Thank you for your comments. Its much appreciated. I fully understand the age group/mentality of some of the players and forum posters. Believe me, I do. It goes well to my point that saying certain things or behaving in certain ways when none of us truly do not know if their are kids or ladies behind the toon that is grouped with you. Each one of us can decide for themselves if its ok for your child to be around cursing. But none of us have the right to make that decision for anyone else's child.

I do look at all I write and try to think clearly before I hit the submit botton. Yet my posts are not any type of "George Bush" type posts. Ick, are you just wanting to insult me? lol Anyways, I never said I was a perfect good guy or perfect in any way. I am far from being perfect and I will be the first to admit it. I still make noobish moves inside quests once in awhile. Even when I know about 90% of quests so well I could do them blindfolded. I understand how you might think I might be trying to change how everyone thinks but I know I can't do that. Yet, I can not have a defeatest attitude because something might seem too difficult. If anything, if something seems to hard it only makes me work harder on the problem. I have no desire to really change the beliefs of others. I do have a desire to get players to show a little respect towards each other and stop with the elitest type attitudes. No matter how good I think I "might" be in this game, no matter how Elite others have called me because of my knowledge of this game. Never, never will I think I am the best or better than anyone else for that matter.

So your nto better then a lvl 1?

~Kire

[Quanefel]

So your nto better then a lvl 1?

~Kire

As far as the human being behind that 1st level toon? Nope, never.

[Kire]

As far as the human being behind that 1st level toon? Nope, never.

Well we aren't human beings in this game. we are elven rangers! and dwarven pallies!

~Kire

[Quanefel]

Well we aren't human beings in this game. we are elven rangers! and dwarven pallies!

~Kire

Hence why I said "The human being behind the toon" Same reason I feel that when people are in chatrooms or instant message system who talk horribly towards people and claim "Its not real life so its ok." Really, its ok to talk trash to people but since its not face to face...its ok? Wrong. If there is something you wouldn't say to another person, please don't say it over a pc like it means nothing. It does.


Zerging, it has its place and time. A guildie of mine zergs all the time and loves it. I won't tell her not to zerg but she knows there is always a place and time for it. Now, when I say this certain cleric zerged through most of the quest, know this. 3/4th's of the party either stated right up front they never did the quest. One or two even asked where GH was. It does not take a genius to know that when someone asks where an area or quest is, that person is new to it. That is when as a leader, I have to put myself in a different mindset. Be more patient, be more understanding and take our time through it. Have I ever talked bad about a newbie or another player. Yup, I sure have. Yet that is not who I am nor do I do this on a regular basis. I catch myself and hold my tongue because it does not solve anything. It does not make matters better nor bring about anything positive. Now if you are my brother making a noob mistake, yeah...I will yell at you each time. If you were to ever hear me bark orders over voice, thats a clue to that I am getting frustrated. That maybe people should start listening to me at that point. Besides, going off on a newbie for some mistake only puts that person on the spot AND will only cause them to get nervous that they make even more mistakes. Everyone wants to do the best they can in game, I fully understand that and see it in people. New and old alike.

And by the way, dwarves smell funny. >.>

[Kire]

Hence why I said "The human being behind the toon" Same reason I feel that when people are in chatrooms or instant message system who talk horribly towards people and claim "Its not real life so its ok." Really, its ok to talk trash to people but since its not face to face...its ok? Wrong. If there is something you wouldn't say to another person, please don't say it over a pc like it means nothing. It does.


Zerging, it has its place and time. A guildie of mine zergs all the time and loves it. I won't tell her not to zerg but she knows there is always a place and time for it. Now, when I say this certain cleric zerged through most of the quest, know this. 3/4th's of the party either stated right up front they never did the quest. One or two even asked where GH was. It does not take a genius to know that when someone asks where an area or quest is, that person is new to it. That is when as a leader, I have to put myself in a different mindset. Be more patient, be more understanding and take our time through it. Have I ever talked bad about a newbie or another player. Yup, I sure have. Yet that is not who I am nor do I do this on a regular basis. I catch myself and hold my tongue because it does not solve anything. It does not make matters better nor bring about anything positive. Now if you are my brother making a noob mistake, yeah...I will yell at you each time. If you were to ever hear me bark orders over voice, thats a clue to that I am getting frustrated. That maybe people should start listening to me at that point. Besides, going off on a newbie for some mistake only puts that person on the spot AND will only cause them to get nervous that they make even more mistakes. Everyone wants to do the best they can in game, I fully understand that and see it in people. New and old alike.

And by the way, dwarves smell funny. >.>

Perhaps we have different views of a newb

My view - someone who is unable or unwilling to learn a new method out of pure stubborness. Or someone who cannot comprehend a simple concept, such as "Dont cast here", "The quest is in House P" etc etc.

~Kire

[kingzero]

Agree to disagree.

The internetz and arguing on the internetz is like kissing your cousin. It might feel good, but it's still baaaad.

Continuing an argument across 4 different threads is like peeing your pants. It's a warm tingly feeling at first, until you realize what you did.

Trying to knock some sense into Kire is like....[insert funny metaphor]

We were all new at once, some people get a better grasp at the game then others. I share the same definition of a "newb" as Kire does. Not someone new to the game, thats a newbie, but a noob is one of those guys who insists on doing his own thing even though repeatedly asked to stop fire-walling the Iron Golem....which leads kind and charming Bards to go nuts.

You are mistaking people in this thread of bashing on newbies and noobs alike.

Case in point, Kire was in a Titan PuG two weeks back where this guy did not understand the concept of accepting a raise dead spell. Did Kire go off on him? No he didn't. Did Dimz go off on him? No. Did I go off on him? No, but we did try to explain to him how it works.

So don't think for one second that you are better than everyone else here, because you tolerate foolishness in your groups. It's your $15, spend it how you will, and we will spend ours how we want.

Now drop it, move on, and go back to teaching people how to run TBF.