Let us do that math people

[Emili]

Totally agreed. If people hadn't made characters that are utterly reliant on the presence of other classes, then maybe there wouldn't be such a major complaint here.

I do not know any class which is buff dependent... least not mine. What I do believe though is arcane casters are 10 fold more efficient then other classes in a quest. There's no doubt about that... If you play well and have a well built melee then go solo a quest, then turn around and play on your sorc or wizard on the same quest - you'll finish much quicker on the latter than the former. The same player playing an arcane who knows how to play one will be more efficient then he is on his well built melee based character. Both are built to survive, both are built with decent dps but the versitility of the tools in the caster's build make the quest simplistic and his spells are easy buttons.

[MysticTheurge]

I do not know any class which is buff dependent... least not mine.

He didn't say buff-dependent classes, he said buff-dependent builds.

There's a fairly significant difference.

[Elvish_Ranger]

unbalanced i think not lets look at the facts i play a ranger and a wizzard

ranger high saves moderate dps, and lots of stat damage to boot,
wizzard moderate saves low hp high dps
hmmm so if my wizzard cannot hit monster x because of fire, cold and electric resistance he dies now i pull my ranger who uses ghost touch of x bane or weakening of enfeebling he kicks the trash out of it...... balanced ya
same note ranger cant hit mob x because of high dr so wizzie casts disinigrate killing it there is balance



what we need are more quests that are sneak oriented, i think there is only 1 were u need to be silent to complete

[Emili]

unbalanced i think not lets look at the facts i play a ranger and a wizzard

ranger high saves moderate dps, and lots of stat damage to boot,
wizzard moderate saves low hp high dps
hmmm so if my wizzard cannot hit monster x because of fire, cold and electric resistance he dies now i pull my ranger who uses ghost touch of x bane or weakening of enfeebling he kicks the trash out of it...... balanced ya
same note ranger cant hit mob x because of high dr so wizzie casts disinigrate killing it there is balance



what we need are more quests that are sneak oriented, i think there is only 1 were u need to be silent to complete

Have you tried another spell? actually I've not found a mob who is impervious to every spell in a wizards pallete as of yet... there is always a spell you can use. ie.) a wizard can feeblemind things out of casting... they can use necro spells etc... many of which get no saves, like i said a wizard always has a spell which does something to a mob.

[Emili]

He didn't say buff-dependent classes, he said buff-dependent builds.

There's a fairly significant difference.

Really? why would anyone build something buff dependent?

[Aspenor]

Really? why would anyone build something buff dependent?

hmmmm, I don't know...

But how many barbarians and fighters are running around out there crying for a GH and resists every time they go somewhere?

If you need GH to hit things, your build is gimp. If you need elemental resists constantly, your fighting build is gimped.

The list goes on and on. I don't know why people do it, but they do.

[Attomic]

Sorry man, but for me right-clicking repeatedly and strategically placing my character and hitting the intimidate button just isn't all that exciting.

Tactics FTW, trip, stun. Self-buffing. Gear swapping. Et freakin' cetera. Man, there's just as much keyboard-and-mouse work for melees as there is for casters... rather, there CAN be. If all you're doing is right-clicking and occasionally clicking intimidate, then I guess that would be boring; I've never played it that way.

[Aspenor]

Tactics FTW, trip, stun. Self-buffing. Gear swapping. Et freakin' cetera. Man, there's just as much keyboard-and-mouse work for melees as there is for casters... rather, there CAN be. If all you're doing is right-clicking and occasionally clicking intimidate, then I guess that would be boring; I've never played it that way.

I find that there is very little point to swapping weapons when I only need 2, +5 Holy DX of PG and +5 Icy Burst DX of Maiming.

I don't swap items too much on my casters, either, anymore.

[brshelton]

Thanks for the correction,

so 63 points of damge on average if he scores 3 hits

vs. 36 for a comparable caster of the same level on average (if the mob fails its save).

Like I said....caster can damage alot of foes in PnP or destroy a small number quickly. They have never been able to outdamage melee classes, their role is more diverse. They are well overpowered in DDO.

and then take however many feats you spent for damage on melee and i get that many feats on my sorc -10

[Taojeff]

and then take however many feats you spent for damage on melee and i get that many feats on my sorc -10

I do not see how that is relevant.

[Taojeff]

Tactics FTW, trip, stun. Self-buffing. Gear swapping. Et freakin' cetera. Man, there's just as much keyboard-and-mouse work for melees as there is for casters... rather, there CAN be. If all you're doing is right-clicking and occasionally clicking intimidate, then I guess that would be boring; I've never played it that way.

Bah thats not alot at all.

Where is charge, shield-charge, overrun, bull-rush, etc. You are going to gasp when you see the list of abilities available in 4.0 for each class.

[Yaga_Nub]

Bah thats not alot at all.

Where is charge, shield-charge, overrun, bull-rush, etc. You are going to gasp when you see the list of abilities available in 4.0 for each class.

We know there are a lot of feats that aren't in the game.

From what I understand, Atari pushed Turbine to move up the release of the game so a lot of things didn't make it in to the final release. Because of that, IMHO, DDO wasn't as successful as it could have been and so that caused people to leave. People leaving meant less money, which meant less development resources, which meant less new content, feats, classes, races, etc.

With the resources they have now they are stretched to fix bugs and create new content let alone work on new races/classes/feats/etc.

When are you (and others) going to learn to just enjoy the game the way that it is or stop playing?

I know it's not popular to tell people to stop playing because everyone thinks that people leaving for any reason is bad but it's really not.

If you aren't having fun and I happen to group with you then there's a good chance that I won't have fun either because of actions/inactions/unwillingness to talk in the party/etc. I'm here to have fun and after 2 years even with all that's right and wrong with DDO I still have fun. It's not because it's got the exact same rules as 3.5 or doesn't, like D&D itself, it's the people that make the game.

[brshelton]

I do not see how that is relevant.

well you gave melees damage boosting feats wheres my 2 damage boosting feats Max and Empower?

[Taojeff]

well you gave melees damage boosting feats wheres my 2 damage boosting feats Max and Empower?

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ok thats fine, then let me damaging feats multiply my damage and we will be even. Last time I checked there is a big difference between addition and multiplication

[Aspenor]

Bah thats not alot at all.

Where is charge, shield-charge, overrun, bull-rush, etc. You are going to gasp when you see the list of abilities available in 4.0 for each class.

So what you are REALLY saying is that you want the devs to add in core DND melee abilities that are not currently implemented in DDO.

If they did that, would they need to nerf casters in your opinion???

[Westerner]

But how many barbarians and fighters are running around out there crying for a GH and resists every time they go somewhere?

If you need GH to hit things, your build is gimp. If you need elemental resists constantly, your fighting build is gimped.

Melees should be able to manage without GH (I carry heroism clicky and it does the job). But if you have it, why not cast it once in a while?

Is a barb gimped if he can't self-cast a 30 pt resist?

When is it appropriate to cast buffs?

[Yaga_Nub]

Melees should be able to manage without GH (I carry heroism clicky and it does the job). But if you have it, why not cast it once in a while?

Is a barb gimped if he can't self-cast a 30 pt resist?

When is it appropriate to cast buffs?

I think casters are over-powered because they can cast 30 point resists and melees can't.

[redoubt]

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ok thats fine, then let me damaging feats multiply my damage and we will be even. Last time I checked there is a big difference between addition and multiplication

Your feats cost nothing to use. They add damage.
Then you have improved crit with actually does multiply damage by doubling your crit range.

Our feats cost extra when we use them. They make a limited resource disappear faster.

Oh... let me guess... since your logic is faltering again, you're going to question the relevance of my post, right?

[Westerner]

I think casters are over-powered because they can cast 30 point resists and melees can't.

Make a ranger. Then you'll be gimped both ways.

[redoubt]

Melees should be able to manage without GH (I carry heroism clicky and it does the job). But if you have it, why not cast it once in a while?

Is a barb gimped if he can't self-cast a 30 pt resist?

When is it appropriate to cast buffs?

Its not about when is it appropriate to cast buff. (Though the answer is when the quest calls for it. Sorry, it really does depend.)

The sub-issue I brought up was refering to builds such as a low AC displacement barbarian who cannot cast his own displacement. Oh, it does happen. I've had multiple players tell me, 'hey I really need blur, displace, GH etc.. whatever you can give me, cause I only have 19 AC." At which point, I'm usually thinking... holy cow! I have an AC above 30 what did this guy do? And then I buff them anyway.