Terrible new trend

[Trugaard]

I wanted to take time to address something that is bothering me and making it more difficult for me to enjoy my adventures in Stormreach. I am extending my neck here to either get it hacked off or joined by other necks. The problem I see is the repeated rude and "Elitist" attitude amongst players in the game, behavior that seems to have no provocation.

Let me preface this by saying I have played a little over a year and have been with Major and Minor sized guilds. I have seen alot of my favorite players leave and unfortunately the people with poor attitudes seem to stay forever and multiply themselves. If this doesn't apply to you than take it for what it's worth.

I have never treated someone poorly because they were new to the game and in reality we should welcome these new players. It takes only one bad experience to turn people off the game forever. As much as you "Elitists" hate newbies think what would happen to the game if nobody wanted to begin playing. We are all ambassadors of this game and it's all of our responsibilities to make everyone welcome.

I sent a tell to a player in game, regarding a post he placed on the forums containing his trade list. The guy got immediately upset because I missunderstood what he had written. Really, this person knows who he is and it really isn't just about that incident. The most fun I have ever had is playing with real characters (my friends in game) and just laughing about the newb dorf who dies every 15-18 seconds and I'm the cleric!

If you manage to build the most powerful and comprehensive group of characters with every magical item, and in the process alienate half the server and drive away any new players, what exactly have you accomplished?

We all love Dungeons and Dragons, that alone should be enough! Stop the random acts of hate and cruelty. Make fun of this post if you must but if you have feedback let me have it.

[KoboldKiller]

I have not experienced this attitude in game, however I would agree that if their are people who are being rude to new players or in general, if you really care about this game then maybe you need to stop and think before you act or speak. Also if your in a PUG with one of these players you could either send a tell to the offender or a tell to the new player explaining that this is an isolated case and offer to run something else with that player to give them a better experience.

[Ringos]

Gee, I guess we must run into different folks. For the most part, people I meet are pretty decent and it's rare that I run across a 'jerk', although I have. I guess the best thing to do would be to try and find more people that you DO like running with and make it a point to quest with them more often. Although most people are pretty decent, I do have a couple of guilds I enjoy running with the most due to the fact that the people are competent AND fun. To me that is the best combination. Take care!

[Jaywade]

...you know you are talking about one person...maybe you caught him on a bad day, maybe you had a bad day....also so much stuff effects people differently what might make you upset might not bug me at all......

good example ...doing a reaver pug last night w/ my 2WF takanobu (dwarf 10/2/2 fighter/pally/rogue) grp is kinda of lagging getting going from time I joib to the party even steps inside is at least 15 min...so I take a afk ...... I come back everyone is in and the the entire grp is standing around the reaver and over voice chat people are asking who got fly....so I run over (with everyone else) and start wacking away at the reaver ....lead tank gets mad a couple of people get dead (1 cleic 1 wizz and a ranger) the lead tank makes a comment for the cleric not to heal my toon casue I've messed up the whole raid....anyway 1 one tank gets fly goes west I get fly go east we beat it okay....at the the end I could of said bunk you , I could of fussed, he as well could of started up some stuff ...you know what we both just shut up...in the end we won,I've seen better run raids but I've seen worst in the end we won....a lot would be better if we sometimes just let things go

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I was rude the other day.

Some people deserve rudeness.

Generally Im a happy-go-lucky kinda guy.

Now, a guildie of mine doesnt like to die. He isnt rude, per se (still cant do it), but when he dies....grab for yer headphones
cause there finna be some cursin'.

[Braegan]

I would have to agree that elitist attitiude to the point of being mean is the minority - and not cool at all. I prefer being the elitist that lets actions speak louder than my own braggin Most folks I have met have been very cool to hang with, but there are jerks everywhere in life - even in game. But it comes down to the fact that if you run into someone that rubs you the wrong way just avoid them. Don't let someone else ruin your experience. And take things with a grain of salt, as another poster mentioned sometimes you have a bad day or run into someone having a bad day and things get blown out of proportion.

[roggane]

Unfortunately it happens, it takes all kinds of peeps to make this game what it is, good and bad.

It's a small community no matter what and he'll find himself on the outside looking in at some point.

I find most people that have your attitude stay in the game longer and find it more enjoyable. Karma will always come back to you.

[DoctorWhofan]

I have.

My first TS run, my first SC run, for starters. This is why I play the way I do. But I just bet for every egoist in the game, there is 20 people showing people around quests, helping in the harbor, and aswering questions over general chat. THat's cuz there is too many good people and we try not let the bad apples spoil the game for new people. But a few get by and I am sorry you expiranced it

[death_smurf]

A jerk is a jerk. whether that player has been playing since beta or last week. remember this is a group game and if people cant treat group members with the same amount of respect they would like to receive they have no purpose in any group. If you can't find a way to be cival in groups .... just solo save your self and the population a lot of hassel. as far as helping new people getting acclimated to the game i find that is an awsome way to enjoy the game more myself. I dont particularly care how well someone plays just how well they present themselves in groups.

[Deadslug]

I AM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I don't believe I'm gonna chime in here. In the last couple of weeks here on the Thelanis Forums we have seen examples of this "elitist attitude" that Trugaard is talking about. I've also bumped into it in the short week that I've been back in game.

To help explain my point, find the post entitled "Something Better". This post is a guild recruiting thread. A very good guild with brilliant, top quality players. There is nothing wrong with the guild or the post. It does however show an "elitist attitude". Here is a group of seasoned veteran players who really want to play with other seasoned veteran players. If I am a noob that just installed my new DDO game, and then went to the forum to check it out and that was the only thread that I read, I might feel excluded as a new player, but I may have also read "Aussie Guild", I may have also read "Legends of Zen recruiting" or "The Madborn are recruiting" and I'll read posts about people looking for guilds and people suggesting great guilds like The Exploration Society or Fellowship of Golden Night, Order of the Sword and Rose, The Band Of Shifting Sands, The Infamous Flaming Vagabonds, Umberhulks. People talking about their in game families (Legion, DWAT, Silver Waffle). I may realize that there is a wide variety of people and guilds some that are accomadating to my experience level and some that are not so accomodating. So you can find elitism on the forums, but you can find "Class is in Session" on the boards too.

In game: The other night, I was actually on as Deadslug. (lvl 1/1 rogue / wizard). Not what you'd consider a powerhouse. A friend of mine, Onyxius invited me to a group that was doing Missing in Action. We had a Fighter lvl 3, a Ranger lvl 2, a cleric lvl 4 and me? The ranger pushed the issue of doing the adventure on hard then on elite. Half way through the elite, he started cursing out our cleric and our fighter because he kept getting agro, "We have a fighter that can't fight, and a cleric that can't heal! I can't stand playing with idiots like you!" He then recalled out and broke from our group. This is "elitist attitude. Hey look! Kobold Shaman rated at CR 4, Kobold Warriors CR 4 and Trog shaman CR 5 can hurt really bad, really fast. He was dead a lot. Not because the Fighter was bad not because the Cleric was terrible. Maybe because all four of us were trying a quest on elite that may have been too hard for the character's abilities. We got through hard okay. A fighter lvl 3 M/T 1/1 and clr 4, are noobs by any standard. I may be a seasoned barbarian at lvl 13, but I may be terrible as a mage, because I'm new at playing that class. The fighter was brand new to the game, and the cleric is brand new to the game. Is this one guy just 'the jerk'. Or are there other people giving people this attitude often. Don't just assume that a guild name means rerolled / twinked character or veteran player. This guy felt perfectly justified in his anger at us? Beherit Baphomer tells us that he has a guildmate that will cuss you out if he dies. I get the impression that his guildmate feels justified when doing it. I also got the impression that Beherit Baphomer excuses his guildmate or feels that he is justified. If you do something "stupid" or "inexperienced" you deserve to get flame-sprayed or cussed out.
This is a growing trend. This trend will hurt our server in the long run. Not everyone is an offender.
If you think they aren't playing well, give them helpful suggestions. If they aren't receptive to them, be polite, wait for the end of the quest and find a new PUG.

I'm Deadslug, and that's what I think

[Ringos]

Nice post Deadslug (boy do I feel stupid typing that!). I had a pretty bad encounter tonight, the worst of my 1+ years in DDO. I won't go into that though. Why? Because I also had one of the best experiences I've had in DDO tonight...actually on the same run. The great experience came when someone did things for other people without any kind of payback. Without going into detail, this guy gave a couple of folks on our run in the GH quite a few nice, actually pretty uber, pieces of gear. He asked nothing in return. I know that some of us go pass out UW action items, some FP and a bit of plat, the newer folks may feel great about it (makes me feel good too), but what this guy did was pretty cool. He totally hooked up a guy with a lvl 10 Pali (his highest toon, on his first Giant Hold run) and gave my guildmate something VERY nice too. Since we really understand what he gave to those folks, it was sincerly appreciated. He helped a couple of guys that might never see those items a chance to have the best. Not only that, but when we wiped the second time on the end fight (someone opened on Elite rather than Hard), he jumped out, grabbed a different toon and saved the quest for us.

I'd like to personally thank the leader of Cataclysm for his actions and for showing again the types of folks that still run around this server of ours.

/salute

[DoctorWhofan]

I AM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I don't believe I'm gonna chime in here. In the last couple of weeks here on the Thelanis Forums we have seen examples of this "elitist attitude" that Trugaard is talking about. I've also bumped into it in the short week that I've been back in game.

To help explain my point, find the post entitled "Something Better". This post is a guild recruiting thread. A very good guild with brilliant, top quality players. There is nothing wrong with the guild or the post. It does however show an "elitist attitude". Here is a group of seasoned veteran players who really want to play with other seasoned veteran players. If I am a noob that just installed my new DDO game, and then went to the forum to check it out and that was the only thread that I read, I might feel excluded as a new player, but I may have also read "Aussie Guild", I may have also read "Legends of Zen recruiting" or "The Madborn are recruiting" and I'll read posts about people looking for guilds and people suggesting great guilds like The Exploration Society or Fellowship of Golden Night, Order of the Sword and Rose, The Band Of Shifting Sands, The Infamous Flaming Vagabonds, Umberhulks. People talking about their in game families (Legion, DWAT, Silver Waffle). I may realize that there is a wide variety of people and guilds some that are accomadating to my experience level and some that are not so accomodating. So you can find elitism on the forums, but you can find "Class is in Session" on the boards too.

In game: The other night, I was actually on as Deadslug. (lvl 1/1 rogue / wizard). Not what you'd consider a powerhouse. A friend of mine, Onyxius invited me to a group that was doing Missing in Action. We had a Fighter lvl 3, a Ranger lvl 2, a cleric lvl 4 and me? The ranger pushed the issue of doing the adventure on hard then on elite. Half way through the elite, he started cursing out our cleric and our fighter because he kept getting agro, "We have a fighter that can't fight, and a cleric that can't heal! I can't stand playing with idiots like you!" He then recalled out and broke from our group. This is "elitist attitude. Hey look! Kobold Shaman rated at CR 4, Kobold Warriors CR 4 and Trog shaman CR 5 can hurt really bad, really fast. He was dead a lot. Not because the Fighter was bad not because the Cleric was terrible. Maybe because all four of us were trying a quest on elite that may have been too hard for the character's abilities. We got through hard okay. A fighter lvl 3 M/T 1/1 and clr 4, are noobs by any standard. I may be a seasoned barbarian at lvl 13, but I may be terrible as a mage, because I'm new at playing that class. The fighter was brand new to the game, and the cleric is brand new to the game. Is this one guy just 'the jerk'. Or are there other people giving people this attitude often. Don't just assume that a guild name means rerolled / twinked character or veteran player. This guy felt perfectly justified in his anger at us? Beherit Baphomer tells us that he has a guildmate that will cuss you out if he dies. I get the impression that his guildmate feels justified when doing it. I also got the impression that Beherit Baphomer excuses his guildmate or feels that he is justified. If you do something "stupid" or "inexperienced" you deserve to get flame-sprayed or cussed out.
This is a growing trend. This trend will hurt our server in the long run. Not everyone is an offender.
If you think they aren't playing well, give them helpful suggestions. If they aren't receptive to them, be polite, wait for the end of the quest and find a new PUG.

I'm Deadslug, and that's what I think

True True. To point I made my guild a PuG only guild to 1) help new people with quests. 2) assist new people with the game. 3) To help PuGgers, who need help or on a LFM. 4) Never to quit a party 5) to be the 6th (or 12th) man in a guild sponsored raid/quest.

That means all my guildies need to know what the heck is going on and knowthe quests well. THey have to be able to play well with others. But that means I cannot invite new people to my guild.

Guilds that are "uber elitists jerks" tend to get other likeminded people in their guild. And the tend to play within theguild. However, if they want to make a another toon, and noone else can/wants to, they have to PuG it. And then we get the jerks showing up in the harbor. And we have to deal with it.

[Ringos]

Quit following me DoctorWhoFan!!!

[DoctorWhofan]

Quit following me DoctorWhoFan!!!

bah, you are following me!

[Luthen]

I wanted to take time to address something that is bothering me and making it more difficult for me to enjoy my adventures in Stormreach. I am extending my neck here to either get it hacked off or joined by other necks. The problem I see is the repeated rude and "Elitist" attitude amongst players in the game, behavior that seems to have no provocation.

Let me preface this by saying I have played a little over a year and have been with Major and Minor sized guilds. I have seen alot of my favorite players leave and unfortunately the people with poor attitudes seem to stay forever and multiply themselves. If this doesn't apply to you than take it for what it's worth.

I have never treated someone poorly because they were new to the game and in reality we should welcome these new players. It takes only one bad experience to turn people off the game forever. As much as you "Elitists" hate newbies think what would happen to the game if nobody wanted to begin playing. We are all ambassadors of this game and it's all of our responsibilities to make everyone welcome.

I sent a tell to a player in game, regarding a post he placed on the forums containing his trade list. The guy got immediately upset because I missunderstood what he had written. Really, this person knows who he is and it really isn't just about that incident. The most fun I have ever had is playing with real characters (my friends in game) and just laughing about the newb dorf who dies every 15-18 seconds and I'm the cleric!

If you manage to build the most powerful and comprehensive group of characters with every magical item, and in the process alienate half the server and drive away any new players, what exactly have you accomplished?

We all love Dungeons and Dragons, that alone should be enough! Stop the random acts of hate and cruelty. Make fun of this post if you must but if you have feedback let me have it.

I have to admit I am a little torn on this topic. I can easily see either side of this topic and if you give me a moment I would like to explain myself. I am a member of DWAT. We have been around since day one but never actually made ourselves a guild until maby 6 months or so after DDO went live. We have a saying which is part of our founding principles... "Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome". We try to live by that. I have seen hunbdreds, maby more, players in the two years since I was in BETA. People come and go. Why is it the "Elitist" players stay longer then most? Tougher skin. Now I have helped my fair share of new players, guiding them or giving out gear or advice. Not everyone is on the same playing level. Whether by choice or ability.

I personally don't have a problem with new players. What I get annoyed with are newer players who refuse to hear what long term expierienced players have to say and learn from that expierience. I would take a 120 hit point Rogue who listens or follows the lead of someone more expierienced rather then a 400-500 hit point fighter who does his own thing and has very little clue how to party with others well, then gets the party wiped because he's an idiot. As an example we have a newer member who started a Rogue and soon after grouping with us joined DWAT. He listens well and learns and is a great team player. He eventualy rebuilt his toon with some smarter choices because he was willing to listen and learn. Those out there who don't listen or want to learn can go play with themselves.

Another "rule" we have in DWAT, at least amongst ourselves, is that in order to be a member you have to have thick skin. Why? because we're going to tell you when you're being stupid and you need to be able to suck it up and hear it. Each and every member has had themselves chewed out over something they've done that was a bone head move. I am not knocking the "sensitive" players. In fact I applaud them. But we're all stuck together and it's the people who refuse to adapt to one another who are most likely going to leave first because those "Elitist" players are the ones with the tougher skin (normally) and will normally outlast your "average" player.

On the other side of this though I can certainly feel for those who are not "Elitist" players. It must be frustrating to want to slowly go through a quest and enjoy every little detail when you have a zerger or an elite player who wants to rush through and get it over with to maximize the efficiancy of their time. It has got to be as frustrating for a more casual player to deal with an "Elitist" as it is the other way around. I just don;t see a quick fix for this kind of problem. We're talking play style and personality conflicts and those will never change.

[Brai]

I'm an Elitist, but you can be one and still be civil. Take for example the two failed 9-12 Dragon raids I've run on my lvl(then 9 now 10) SRC Kaliss. Both times I thought the leaders, sorry, were a little less than what I prefer a raid leader to be, and there where a fair number of inexperienced players. Not to say that generally they where bad players or bad leaders but still my standards are pretty high. The first raid ran into some problems, but nothing major. I knew it was going to be rough when we went to do the doors in the north hall. We had one fighter type with STR over 25, a guildie of mine who had 30 STR at lvl 10. The next Highest was 24, my guildie had to rage this other tank to get him above 25. We ran into a few issues but there was a long delay with a problem talking to some of the faces, bug? maybe. Well my guildie ran out of time and had to take off. We finnished without tooo much more problems and went on to the Dragon. We had a ranger without Precise shot, wasn't high enough lvl, but the tanks did a good job getting the pillars down. Went on to the Dragon to try and beat her but there was just not enough DPS. Well we switched to hero mode and the tank didn't do it well. Basically everyone was dead but two or three of us and all three clerics were. I was trying to get a cleric up with scrolls but I have to roll an 18 so it wasn't going good. Well the other last person standing decided to kamakazee and I died to in the middle of trying to res the clerics, it was my own fault I guess for not saying what I was doing but I did not complain, I just recalled and left the party after senselessly wasting 10 res scrolls. Now this was friday night I was wathching the Pats - Giants game that had just started when we started VoN5, sadly the game was done before we finished VoN5. Still I did My best to help get a completion, no yelling or screaming even though I wanted to.

On the second one, we did VoN 5 on hard and we ran into some problems right away that gave me another bad juju feeling. The rogues were having problems finding the traps. All in all everything else in VoN 5 went quite decent, and we finnished. The real problems were on VoN 6 where not alot of people understood what was going on, and one person was getting ansi. One person, who I will never raid with again was being annoying as usual, this was a new Char for a widely known, through our guild at least, bad player. One other guy died out on an island and we were trying to recover, but it was not going well. One of the tanks, the dude getting ansi, died and we were trying to get him to bring him in but the person who picked up his stone and was trying to save him got pushed off the island by the mephits, a mistake? yes, but this guy went nuts. Yes it sucks but still it is an honest mistakes and this guy IMO was not good enough to have the right to yell at someone for an honest mistake. Anyway we failed to even get the pillars down but I got lvl 10 so I didn't complain at all.

Moral of the stories: I'm an elitist when I pug I know people are usually not up to my standards and I expect that and play accordingly without an attitude.

[mardersteinel]

Nice post Deadslug (boy do I feel stupid typing that!). I had a pretty bad encounter tonight, the worst of my 1+ years in DDO. I won't go into that though. Why? Because I also had one of the best experiences I've had in DDO tonight...actually on the same run. The great experience came when someone did things for other people without any kind of payback. Without going into detail, this guy gave a couple of folks on our run in the GH quite a few nice, actually pretty uber, pieces of gear. He asked nothing in return. I know that some of us go pass out UW action items, some FP and a bit of plat, the newer folks may feel great about it (makes me feel good too), but what this guy did was pretty cool. He totally hooked up a guy with a lvl 10 Pali (his highest toon, on his first Giant Hold run) and gave my guildmate something VERY nice too. Since we really understand what he gave to those folks, it was sincerly appreciated. He helped a couple of guys that might never see those items a chance to have the best. Not only that, but when we wiped the second time on the end fight (someone opened on Elite rather than Hard), he jumped out, grabbed a different toon and saved the quest for us.

I'd like to personally thank the leader of Cataclysm for his actions and for showing again the types of folks that still run around this server of ours.

/salute

As a new player and beneficiary of the kindness of others, I would second this sentiment wholeheartedly. Any problems I have are universally of my own doing. People are remarkably helpful and want you to do well and get better.

The end fight Ringos is describing was surreal. Being incapacitated like everyone else the view gets blurred - but what I did see was him float down from above - then a wave of what looked like explosions. Then he rezzed me - but everything that killed us was already dead. Quite a force he was.

[Clay]

to be honest, I don't see a growing trend towards more "elitism."

I remember when I was a couple of months into the game, still learning my way around, unguildied and with a small friends list. I was unaware of the forums, of the "elite." I learned the hard way, by trial and error, well lots of error.

In learning the game largely solo, there were large gaps of knowledge, and many bad habits. I had the good fortune to run into an "elite" player named Picks who took me and my small group of friends thru Tangleroot for the first time. He was patient and ran things fast, but didn't finish every fight by himself or spoil every nuance of the quest.

It opened my eyes to a different aspect of the game and a new challenge. A big new challenge. I wanted to be as good.

Soon after I ran into another "elite" player with a Paralyzing great axe. The original kind. We were doing CO6 and it was the most boring time I have ever had in the game. I did not feel inspired or want to be that kind of player.

Two striking examples of elite payers... and I think pretty much the situation is largely unchanged. There are some bad apples who give a bad example, but in my experience they are a vast minority. Not all are like Picks, or the guy Ringos mentions, but most are decent and considerate people.

As a guy who pugs ALOT, I have rarely had bad experiences and they usually don't stick in memory. I do remember the good guys tho, and the new names on my friends list.

[Ghoste]

Reminds me of an STK run I did earlier today.

4 party members were from the same guild and organized the party. Then there was myself and a rogue who appeared to be fairly new to the game. At one point the party leader sent me a tell apologizing for the rogue, but thanking me for my patience. I replied that what was actually bothering me was being in a party with all these fleshlings, especially the smelly dwarf. He started cracking up over voice chat, and everyone forgot the rogue was struggling and had a good time.

[MrWizard]

I wanted to take time to address something that is bothering me and making it more difficult for me to enjoy my adventures in Stormreach. I am extending my neck here to either get it hacked off or joined by other necks. The problem I see is the repeated rude and "Elitist" attitude amongst players in the game, behavior that seems to have no provocation.

Welcome to Xoriat.... Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

Let me preface this by saying I have played a little over a year and have been with Major and Minor sized guilds. I have seen alot of my favorite players leave and unfortunately the people with poor attitudes seem to stay forever and multiply themselves. If this doesn't apply to you than take it for what it's worth.

A lot of people are drinking heavily as mod6 is taking forever and the mortgage is going up too fast

I have never treated someone poorly because they were new to the game and in reality we should welcome these new players. It takes only one bad experience to turn people off the game forever. As much as you "Elitists" hate newbies think what would happen to the game if nobody wanted to begin playing. We are all ambassadors of this game and it's all of our responsibilities to make everyone welcome.

Today's dumb newbs are tomrrow's elitist buttheads

I sent a tell to a player in game, regarding a post he placed on the forums containing his trade list. The guy got immediately upset because I missunderstood what he had written. Really, this person knows who he is and it really isn't just about that incident. The most fun I have ever had is playing with real characters (my friends in game) and just laughing about the newb dorf who dies every 15-18 seconds and I'm the cleric!

What?

If you manage to build the most powerful and comprehensive group of characters with every magical item, and in the process alienate half the server and drive away any new players, what exactly have you accomplished?

Xoriat reborn?

We all love Dungeons and Dragons, that alone should be enough! Stop the random acts of hate and cruelty. Make fun of this post if you must but if you have feedback let me have it.

A new hate thread...awesome!

knowing none of my comments will be taken as tongue-in-cheek, go candy cane yourself.


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