Clerics Guild

[Heladron]

... Why do so many clerics not have devotion items?!?!?! ...

Now excuse my rant above, as a long time cleric, this idea sucks, dont spend your hard earned loot on a cleric that does not have a proven past!

I agree that spending money on a cleric is dumb. Play better when a cleric is in the party and you won't get killed and the cleric won't blow all his money keeping bad players alive.

I think one reason that most clerics don't have devotion items is that they seem to be somewhat rare. The second reason is that people put them on the auction house on Ghallanda for 1 million gold. DOH!!!! If a cleric can't afford to buy some wands or scrolls what chance do they have of affording a devotion item? Superior Potency is another good fill in for devotion because it also will help out blade barriers and comet fall and damage spells, but the problem with the auction house is that people price these items out of reach and then wonder why clerics burn through spell points.

It's simple economics. People can't buy what they can't afford. That's why clerics don't have superior devotion and why clerics can't heal for hooey. I'm still using the same crappy Superior Potency V dagger I've had since level 9 and haven't been able to find or afford better. One will eventually drop and then I'll have some good mass cure spells launching too. Please don't say the economy in DDO is hosed because that's mental. The economy is the way it is because people will pay more for an item than it is really worth. If you refuse to pay the prices the prices will drop to a reasonable level.

Cleric's also have a problem when it comes to raids. It seems like 9 times out of ten all of the fighters are on the party list that doesn't correspond to a F1-F6 hot key. That means you have to disengage the mouse look and click on bars. That's a pretty bad UI design flaw. It shouldn't get orders of magnitude harder to heal a party in a raid, but it is.

An additional problem is people don't view all things as being equal. For example if a sorcerer gets in a party and they said I'm only going to use scrolls of firewall on the wraiths, specters and so on people would say, "ARE YOU NUTS? Your damage output isn't going to be as high." Now when a cleric says, "I'm only gonna use wands to heal," People are likely to say, "You better bring some extras because this could get messy." People are incorrectly thinking that wands are good for healing but bad for damage. The truth is that they are worthless period. The wand enhancements are worthless and 10% of nothing is nothing. I've only ever taken that enhancement because I needed to spend a point to get a better enhancement and the other stuff was even more worthless.

Another problem clerics have is that when they're in a party, the parties collective IQ drops. People start to play like idiots when they think the healing is going to come cheap. I've been in so many parties where there wasn't a cleric and they play careful and get the quests done, but as soon as a cleric shows up they turn into instant retards and run all over the place. Clerics = Crummy Play.

So it seems like if people played as careful with a cleric as they did without, then it wouldn't be expensive to play a cleric at all. How many times have you been in a group where you couldn't get a cleric and people finally get impatient and want to play and everyone says let's just go without a cleric and we'll just take it slow. HOW STUPID IS THAT? It's basically implying that if there is a cleric in the party you're all going to zerg like mad. Play like you don't have a cleric even when you do and then this won't be a problem for anybody.

I rolled one up in the heat of a cleric "depression" on Ghallanda and capped him so fast it was ridiculous. Now I only play him to do raids and occasionally when the guild needs him. Playing a cleric taught me one thing. On my melee characters and casters I always have 50-100 cure serious pots.

[Lorz]

A real cleric heals because it is his calling. A real cleric does not ask for money and will not accept it. His lifes' work is dedicated to healing those around him. I have never asked for nor do i expect any donations. Have some pride man....we are not beggars.

If you are truly called to the healing arts then you will quickly find no need to ask others for money. My clerics (both lvl 14) have plenty of gold to do their work. I may never be as wealthy as a mage or warrior, but i am never without funding. This leads me to believe that it is not the lack of monetary funding that is the issue but instead your ability as a healer. It sounds as though you would be better suited as a bard or perhaps a rogue, but you are certainly no CLERIC.

This abomination you are proposing to build, would forever sully the name of Clerics and would make you nothing but a hired henchman. I will not participate, nor will i support. My clerics and the clerics of the KotKG will stand against you. We do not charge for healing and never will. I hope you enjoy playing with yourself, as I am certain you have plenty of practice.

Yes it costs money to run a cleric...my two cleric run around with no less than 100 heal scrolls and 50+ res scrolls. I do receive donations from party members whom know what lengths i go to ensure their safe being. But i never expect it, or demand. You cheapen us all with your demand for payment scheme.

You SIR are no CLERIC!

Oh and if your Cleric cant get devotion items...you are not trying.

Go run Invaders and get your 25 tokens. Then you will have a Devotion V item. That simple. Really the problem is not being a cleric...its your complete failure as a cleric thats the problem.

Seriously my lead characters are Clerics. Your should name this new organization of yours....Those Who Cannot Cut It as a Cleric.

[Lorz]

All we are asking for is compensation for the wands and scrolls we go through. We dont expect to get rich off this. I understand that there are a lot of toons out there that compensate their clerics, and for them. THANK YOU. BUT, far too often a cleric goes into a bad pug goes through WAY too many scrolls and or wands and gets nothing out of it but their share of the loot which doesnt even come close to the restocking price. We dont plan on running quests with each other (only clerics) we are just trying to make clerics available for whatever quest you are running. hence "for hire" You say i want you for this quest, you know how much it will cost, and we oblige and get the party through it, even if it isnt a quest we enjoy. If you have a problem with this, than this thread wasn't meant for you in the first place.

Geez...this is so easy...you get into a pug that is zurging...simply use your mana nothing else!!!

Get into a party that knows how to play as a party then you use whatever it takes to get through the quest.


Seems like to me you can control your expenses easily enough by what type of party you have. If done correctly you will end up money ahead everytime.


Some folks here really dont know how to play a CLERIC!

Oh and there are always GOOD clerics available to those who know how to play. Some here obviously need to learn the game.....

The dumbest idea for 2007 a pay for use cleric guild.

NOOB!

[Heladron]

I'm with you Lorz.

I run with lots of PUGs when guildies aren't on. If I wasn't in a guild already I'd make a counter cleric guild that heals for free. It's just not right to expect people to pay for supplies for your character. Next we'll be buying wands and scrolls for sorcerers and wizards because they will be using them for the "good" of the party. That makes as little sense as buying wands for a cleric because they'll be used for the party. When was the last time you handed over a wand of scorching ray or MM to the caster so he can take down the boss in STK? It just doesn't happen very often if at all. Why should it be different for clerics?

Now see what you've done Lorz. You're getting me all riled up. I'm almost ready to go roll up another cleric so that there will be a free alternative to a mercenary guild of clerics. The KotCG will stand for righteous Cleric'ing for the sake of Healing.

[hannika]

When was the last time you handed over a wand of scorching ray or MM to the caster so he can take down the boss in STK? It just doesn't happen very often if at all. Why should it be different for clerics?

heh. i've done this several times while leveling lowbies that couldn't just take the guy down with an addy weapon myself. just to make sure it gets done. but yeah not the point i know. blah blah clerics guild bad i already put in my two cents.

[randy7782]

wow, guess the last few posters had their cheerios defiled. Before you insult my cleric ability you should remember that I posted I rarely run my cleric. So insulting my cleric ability is pointless. I was doing this on behalf of other clerics. I have played with the kotkg and will say that I was very impressed by them. They were professional, and even mailed back pp I had sent. I have a lot of respect for this guild, BUT, to come in here and try to insult me is something that I would have thought to be beneath you. So, enough of this. The clerics guild has been disbanded.

[Oreg]

****, disbanded already?????

But my level 1 cleric just spent the last week trying to get to level 2 so he could join

[Heladron]

First some good may have come out of this hotly debated topic.

The discussion forced me to rethink and re-roll my lowbie cleric. I put 4 or 5 levels into that cleric, but the new one should perform slightly better overall. So thanks for that OP. I'll probably play him more actively because there is a shortage of clerics on the server and that is a shame because they are important.

Looking back Lorz was a bit harsh and insulting. I'm pretty sure it was he and our other cleric that sent the money back that day. On behalf of the KotCG I apologize and hopefully he'll show up to apologize also. I believe it was his first posts ever on this forum. I still stand by not taking money for healing. But, it is a free-game economy and people are welcome to do what they want. We take pride in our Clerics and four of us have capped clerics on Ghallanda and future clerics up and coming.

We get our share of tips and more often than not we just don't take them because we chose to play Clerics and bear the burden until we can do some loot runs. Plus we all built casters to help share lighten the burden of buying supplies.

I think we actually grouped with you during a house K favor run or something. I remember the name Fizzal. It was a very good group and I hope you'll group with us in the future despite this over excitement about charging for services. It's a game after all and if we're getting this excited we're probably taking it a little too serious. Time to take a break from the caffeine or something.

Again sorry it got personal for a bit there. Lorz can get us riled up and I guess that's why we like him because he has a strong spirit and it can be infectious and beneficial when the game gets intense.

[Rekker]

You can definitely pull off the all Cleric group/guild.

We have been running a static Friday night group since release that is all Cleric. The only real requirement is that half your level must be Cleric. This allows for some fighter/rogue/caster type builds to be viable. We are currently working through GH stuff and having fun.

Give it a shot, it can be done.

[Krondiggs]

Its sad that the only people who post on the forums are people who B* and moan........all the people who responded to this post did nothing but jump to conclusions and missed the whole point of it.......all so you could hear yourself speak and nay say just for the H* of it.......the idea was great and if you only could get past yourself and look at it for how it is and not how your narrow mind inputs it you would see that for yourself..... this was not for the people who only do guild runs....this was not for the elite of the elite.....who only plays with other elite people leaving the noobs.....noobs forever cuz no one will teach and train...this was for pug groups alone.....for both parties.....the group looking and the cleric. how many times have you sat around hoping to get a cleric just waiting for one to pop on...and then proceed spamming the Cr@p out of them....and what if a cleric pops on but they dont care to run the quest you are running....then more wait time.... but what if.... you were able to go to a "guild". and whether or the cleric belonging to "the clerics" guild wanted to do the quest you could recruit him to your party for the price of wands and scrolls he used in the quest.... a small base fee is not a huge sacrifice nor should it get so many negative replies for the ability not to have to wait around... if no wands or scrolls are used then the small base fee is all you pay......if you zerg and play poorly then wands and scrolls will most likely be used and would be expected to be replaced........... i for one think the idea is awesome.....turbine could even put it into the game where in the social panel there would be a "for hire" tab.....and this doesnt have to be limited to clerics.....hire a rog, hire a wiz etc. if you dont mind waiting then wait but jsut cuz you dont mind waiting doesnt mean you have to slam this idea.....just keep playing with your elite guild and all is fine....but for those who dont mind forking up a little cash for the sake of running the quest faster....or getting a cleric for a quest that is horrible and no one wants to run then this idea is for you.

Please people take a step outside of that little box you live in and look at the broad spectrum........

[captain1z]

I like the idea of a clerics guild. BUT I dislike the idea of charging people for your services.

That very idea goes against the entire reason behind the creation of my cleric....... a non-guild peoples cleric.

When people put up LFMs and they look like they are having truble getting a cleric..... if its the right level range I'll jump on my cleric and toss a few heals around.

I would gladly join your guild if you think up something other than charging people.


How about regular guild runs on raids or other quests ...like normal loot runs to acquire guild loot.

We can all donate money to an in guild cleric who has high charisma or haggle and he would purchase our scrolls wands and pots at a reduced price. We could support our selves this way and donations from pugs would just be extra.


Instead of a guild united to get the money you feel clerics are due.................. how about a guild united to make the cost of being a cleic more affordable.

Because not everyone has a high haggle character yet we could all benefit from one.



thoughts.?

[Aspenor]

I do not need you god-worshipper!!

[Kronik]

Only problem with this idea is that Clerics aren't worth thier weight if we do not have anyone to help us!

Yea we spend a lot and yea we are needed by all, blah blah. But the cleric is best when grouped with others who appricate us and need our healing love! What good is it to group with a bunch of people that can take care of themselves. My destruction and divine spells of might can only go so far against a mob of hard hittin baddies! I look forward to grouping with a diverse group of players who respect each other for what each one of us has to offer. By charging others for our services, we would probably get the kind of zergers and mana sponges that no one else wants to play with.

Sure us clerics get the raw end of the stick most of the time, but at the end of the day, we are by far the most needed class in the game! Deep down, the truley good playing clerics get much respect and get the opportunity to join far more quests than most other classes.

Last I'll say that each and every class has its need in DDO and while at times I may feel like playing a cleric cost more and is under-appreciated, there are many more other classes who feel the same if not worse.

Cheers DDO and if you do start an all Cleric Guild, you might find yourself paying more plat and time than ever before!

[issiana]

I like the idea of a clerics guild. BUT I dislike the idea of charging people for your services.

That very idea goes against the entire reason behind the creation of my cleric....... a non-guild peoples cleric.

When people put up LFMs and they look like they are having truble getting a cleric..... if its the right level range I'll jump on my cleric and toss a few heals around.

I would gladly join your guild if you think up something other than charging people.

My thoughts excatly.

my posts wherent mant to be insulting to the idea of a clerics guild but a wake up call to the idea of a PAY TO USE US guild. That idea is just wrong imo.
I like you also jump on my cleric when ever i see a group thats being sitting around with an lfm up for a while. why? well it normally means slightly unskilled non elite players as the skilled ppl normally would have "sucked it up" and gone clericless ,lol

I've had some horror runs and i've had some awesome runs doing this. but its always for free unless someone wants to offer something, then i'll choose weither i'll accept the donation or say dont worry

[randy7782]

****, disbanded already?????

But my level 1 cleric just spent the last week trying to get to level 2 so he could join

Hmmmmm sarcasm? Nice, real nice. (insert birdie)

To Everyone: I will be the first to admit faults and problems with this guild, Next time someone comes up with an idea, you might want to stay off the bashing bandwagon for a change. Instead explain how the idea could be better, or help them see that another direction could be more beneficial. There were a few people with some good idea's, like a guild who helps clerics, ( a few posts above) with haggle or other. I would have been more than happy to be involved in this, that is untill I see what happens to people who try to improve the game, (In my mind I was trying) Everyone should take another look at krondiggs post. It was the most intelligent thing i have read on these forums to date. So I will now just play the game and keep to myself. Enough said about this topic, if you feel you still have to flame this post, know that I wont be reading it.

And Heledron, thank you, I look forward to future runs with the kotkg.

[captain1z]

I just read the rest of this thread...having only read the 1st few posts initially.



I read something about people playing with themselves.... a thinly veiled double meaning


and the fact that the guild has been disbanded before its even really started.


all I can say is WOW.



I suppose this is another reason why I just dont join guilds....... Ive been in 2 guilds since launch and have spent a combined 3 months in them...... leaving not because they are bad people...but just because I dont think someone elses artificial rules or code of play should govern/ dictate how I play, when I play, what I play, and whom I play with.

Politics and reputation are a small concern for a guild of 1.



That fine for me.................. but If you want to start this guild...do so........ dont throw it away because someone disagrees with you.

Build your guild and find like minded people................. but be prepared for those like minded people to develop different ideas on the matter.

[Ringos]

As a cleric myself, I never charge for my services. I will, usually, take donations if offerd (I have turned them down on ocassion). The notion that clerics can't 'cut it' on their own may be false though. An all-cleric group took out the Reaver on Elite, as well as Velah and who knows what else. Do other parties NEED a cleric? There was recently an all-ranger Elite Velah run that was successful. I'm sure other accomplishments that have been done sans-cleric as well. On most quests you don't NEED a member of a certain class, but it's nice to have a good mix. Not many groups WANT to run without a cleric, but they could probably get by if they needed to. How about us cleric types continue to heal and everyone else tries to be considerate of the clerics and maybe pass them a few plat from time to time? Sounds like we'll all be better for the compromise.

Take care all!

[smatt]

Sometimes a well timed soundburst, or destruction is more efficient than throwing a heal... especially against enemy clerics.

Oh agreed 100% I'm all for clerics using their offensive powers, whether it be corwd control or say destruct...... BUt as I said.... I see it all to often these days where clerics use those spells, run out of mana and in those quess where things do get hot and heavy I hear.. Wands and scrolls only....... Most of the time I can easily keep myself up, as I try to keep an eye on mana bars I have been "svaed" many times by with a timely comet fall, greater command, or destruct, just as I've been "saved'by that well times heal But I might also add, I've saved far more than a few clerics with a timely raise dead, qui9k wand whip, etc after they've depleted their mana on destructions etc and then have gotten a good beating....

Personally, I feel clerics are under appreciated as it's not an easy job to heal people on the run.....

[smatt]

As a cleric that most fernian bloods know, I find this to be a little disturbing, at first glance it is a good idea, but after playing a cleric on this game, NWN1, NWN2 and a healer on many others, and a Cleric via PnP, I find that most clerics suffer due to lack of skill, re-role if you cannot support your party, value a shrine a little bit more, there is so much that you can do to reduce costs! Get a haggle bard! Ask your party for donations, I have never EVER been told no to donations! (although someone might now that I have posted this :P ) Mix in more mana healing (it heals for higher number anyway), wear the right gear, boost that mana bar with power or wizadry items. Why do so many clerics not have devotion items?!?!?! My god I could make this post a book with the problems I see with other clerics. I have seen alot of good ones, I have coached ALOT of noobs on being a cleric, and have been in parties with the worst of healers who dont even pay attention! Black lists, White lists, why??? Learn to heal and you will not need these lists!

Now excuse my rant above, as a long time cleric, this idea sucks, dont spend your hard earned loot on a cleric that does not have a proven past!

Bingo..... Hey, I don't mind paying up and I very often do, on the ocasion that we actually do run with a cleric... Even when they dont' use up their mana.... And as I said abvoe to Cowdenacious.... I actually like when the clerics help out on offense.. Heck, clerics at level 14 are getting pretty painful for the mobs.... But you hit my point.... A cleric isn't an easy clas to play, in fact I think it might be the hardest to really play well. A cleric who really tries should NEVER hae a problem finding a good guild, or when not running in their guild, find good players who're more than willing to make sure if need be there's plenty of donations around.

[smatt]

Another problem clerics have is that when they're in a party, the parties collective IQ drops. People start to play like idiots when they think the healing is going to come cheap. I've been in so many parties where there wasn't a cleric and they play careful and get the quests done, but as soon as a cleric shows up they turn into instant retards and run all over the place. Clerics = Crummy Play.

So it seems like if people played as careful with a cleric as they did without, then it wouldn't be expensive to play a cleric at all. How many times have you been in a group where you couldn't get a cleric and people finally get impatient and want to play and everyone says let's just go without a cleric and we'll just take it slow. HOW STUPID IS THAT? It's basically implying that if there is a cleric in the party you're all going to zerg like mad. Play like you don't have a cleric even when you do and then this won't be a problem for anybody.

Ummmmm, Ummmmm, Ummmm I never do such a thing as COUNT on a cleric when they're in the part.... Well ya I guess amybe I do... But heck, we rarely hae one, so I like to make them feel needed And besides, what fun is being careful... You NEVER are