8 Quasi-Domains Turbine could implement, with current spells only.

[Cowdenicus]

OK I see your point, I am a little worried about the offensive ones myself.

About the more defensive ones.... what about limiting it to self. So like Clerics (in my example for earth) could cast stone skin, but only on self. or for Air could cast displacement but only on self.

Would that be better?

(By the way, I almost threw in the spell haste to the Air Domain and took out the 2 damage spells, maybe that would be a better route to go.)

[Aesop]

OK I see your point, I am a little worried about the offensive ones myself.

About the more defensive ones.... what about limiting it to self. So like Clerics (in my example for earth) could cast stone skin, but only on self. or for Air could cast displacement but only on self.

Would that be better?

(By the way, I almost threw in the spell haste to the Air Domain and took out the 2 damage spells, maybe that would be a better route to go.)

for Air I kinda want them to incorporate the spell Whirlwind... kinda gettin a little back gainst the mobs for all those **** Air Elementals

but self only targeted buffs... i dunno. When I was thinking about it I was trying to keep it as much in the domains as possible

this is what the Air Domain looks like in PnP

AIR DOMAIN
Granted Powers: Turn or destroy earth creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster air creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This granted power is a supernatural ability.

Air Domain Spells
Spell Name Brief Description
1 Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
2 Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.
3 Gaseous Form: Subject becomes insubstantial and can fly slowly.
4 Air Walk: Subject treads on air as if solid (climb at 45-degree angle).
5 Control Winds: Change wind direction and speed.
6 Chain Lightning: 1d6/level damage; 1 secondary bolt/level each deals half damage.
7 Control Weather: Changes weather in local area.
8 Whirlwind: Cyclone deals damage and can pick up creatures.
9 Elemental Swarm*: Summons multiple elementals.
* Cast as an air spell only.


the rebuking elementals thing just seems useless so bumping that to a Reflex save/balance bonus/ or even a jump bonus seems reasonable to me. I'd love Windwall to be made available even if it only gave a high miss chance (65% or so) for arrows and made it so small sized critters had to walk around it, but that's hoping against hope I know. Chain Lightning I like but again I'm advocating the use per day and not the add to spell list...

I know you were trying to keep with the spells currently available but by the time any of this is implemented we could have a bunch more spells. I think leaning them to do just that is also important. I think the only spells on that list currently in game are Obscuring Mist, Chain Lightning and Weather Control... though that last one is only available to NPCs... which should change I think

However to answer the question at hand I don't hink that it is necessary to limit the spell targets anymore than they currently are

Aesop

[MysticTheurge]

If clerics tend to be a bit stronger than what they are now, there will be more people wanting to play a cleric, hence there will be more clerics, which means there will probably be more pugging (and easier pugging at that) which would be a benefit to the game.

This is, of course, one of the rationales for why Clerics can be so powerful in D&D and get away with it, but honestly I'm not sure if it works in DDO. It's a pretty big leap from "there will be more clerics" to "there will be more pugging." As you must know, playing a cleric or two yourself, pugging with a cleric is often not a very appealing experience. A PUG often expects you to play your cleric one way and if there's one things domains would do it would be to add more variety in how people want to play their clerics.

So while the extra power and versatility of domains helps get people to play clerics in D&D groups, it wouldn't necessarily have the same effect on DDO as a whole.

Isnt the strength of a cleric though that they can do anything, just not quite as well as other classes.... (other than healing)

No, not really. One of the things that makes clerics (and druids) so powerful in DDO is that they can do just about anything as well, or better, than anyone else.

Fighting: Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might, Recitation and a few other spells make a cleric a beast in combat. In many ways he becomes more threatening than a fighter or barbarian.

Offensive Casting: There's plenty of stuff here. Flamestrike and firestorm. Blade Barrier, searing light, cometfall. There's plenty of spells that a cleric can use to dish out the damage on par with a wizard or sorcerer.

You could keep going through the roles here, defensive caster, crowd control, trap finder, combat defense. What makes the cleric so powerful is that he can do pretty much any of these just as well as any other class. And while that's ok in D&D (not great, but ok), it simply wouldn't work in DDO.

[Aesop]

oh I updated all the Domains I posted previously with fewer uses per rest and tried to spread a little of the Granted Power love out over the entire line instead of front loading them all.

Aesop

[Emili]

This is, of course, one of the rationales for why Clerics can be so powerful in D&D and get away with it, but honestly I'm not sure if it works in DDO. It's a pretty big leap from "there will be more clerics" to "there will be more pugging." As you must know, playing a cleric or two yourself, pugging with a cleric is often not a very appealing experience. A PUG often expects you to play your cleric one way and if there's one things domains would do it would be to add more variety in how people want to play their clerics.

So while the extra power and versatility of domains helps get people to play clerics in D&D groups, it wouldn't necessarily have the same effect on DDO as a whole.



No, not really. One of the things that makes clerics (and druids) so powerful in DDO is that they can do just about anything as well, or better, than anyone else.

Fighting: Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might, Recitation and a few other spells make a cleric a beast in combat. In many ways he becomes more threatening than a fighter or barbarian.

Offensive Casting: There's plenty of stuff here. Flamestrike and firestorm. Blade Barrier, searing light, cometfall. There's plenty of spells that a cleric can use to dish out the damage on par with a wizard or sorcerer.

You could keep going through the roles here, defensive caster, crowd control, trap finder, combat defense. What makes the cleric so powerful is that he can do pretty much any of these just as well as any other class. And while that's ok in D&D (not great, but ok), it simply wouldn't work in DDO.

My thoughts exactly. The 3.5 rules attempted to get more people interested in the class ... however they inflated the class, and while doing so at least in PnP we have an actual DM to guide what can and cannot be - thus a power check in place. I'm still a bit reserved on this due to the fact we have no DM.

To the poster touting then people will play more clerics... that is true, They'll also playe less of the other classes though. Let me relate. As DDO stands right now I see my guild log in and out - all these guildies have some of every class they all have nine class slots and the guild being two years old is full of capped characters mainly... I'd have to say in the past few months the most used character classes among them all are are the arcane... mainly sorc then wizards followed up by cleric as people tend to build thier melee and rogue now for flavor but play them rarely in comparisons. Heck I see so few of them hoping on thier rogues outside to bring one in to take out a trap or open a door in a particular quest to get at a chest after a quest is done. I clean up the inactive lists every month and what I find myself tossing out of that list most are other classes... people play thier arcanes and clerics more.

My observation is that a lot of people do play clerics in the guild... they just rarely pug them.

[Aesop]

I had some ideas to enhance rogues a touch as welll... but that's in a different thread... actually I put some ideas in The Dog House also I put a couple of enhancment ideas for Fighters and Dragonblooded Enhancments for Sorcerors and WIzard School Specializations... MT has a couple of dandy ideas for Paladin Enhancements and I mentioned a couple of things for them as well. I think the only classes I haven't done much on are Barb and Bard... and I'm not overly familiar with them so I leave them for others to talk about

Clerics are badass ... but Domains are kinda a staple for them. It would be like taking out a fighters ability to take WEapon Spec and Greater Wpn Foc/Spec not the end of the world but still missing something that really makes them feel whole

Aesop

[Aesop]

Need more feedback and discussion... I won't have too much time over the next week because I am moving but I'd like people to keep going with this stuff


Aesop

[captain1z]

Let me preface this with the following: Domains as they are in the PhB would probably overpower Clerics especially in this game.

That being said I have come up with possibilities for 8 prospective domains and would love feedback.

Note that alot of them have had spells changed on the list and all of them had at least 4 spells removed from the domain.

Air Domain

Granted Ability: Your studies of air and the Etherial have granted you a +2 reflex save.

Level 1 spell: Blur
Level 3 spell: Lightning bolt
Level 5 spell: Displace
Level 7 spell: Chain Lightning

Charm Domain

Granted ability +2 to saves vs. enchantments & illusions

Level 1 spell: Charm Person
Level 3 Spell: Suggestion
Level 5 Spell: Charm Monster
Level 7 Spell: Mass Suggestion

Death Domain

Spell Like Ability:Your studies of Death and Necromancy have granted you permanent Death Ward. (maybe +1 to necromancy DC's also)

Level 4 Spell: Phantasmal Killer
Level 5 Spell: Slay Living
Level 7 Spell: Destruction
Level 9 Spell: Wail of the Banshee

Earth Domain

Spell Like Ability: Your studies of the Earth have granted you (Moderate fortification -AC bonus is wasted on a cleric)

Level 5 Spell: Stone Skin
Level 7 Spell: Flesh to Stone

Fire Domain

granted ability: stackable DR5 VS fire and cold damage

Level 1 Spell: Burning Hands
Level 4 Spell: Fire Wall
Level 7 Spell: Fire Storm
Level 8 Spell: Incindiary Cloud

Healing Domain

All Healing spells are Quickened.

War Domain

Grants All Martial Weapon Proficiencies and Weapon Focus.

Water Domain

Granted Ability: Underwater action and the ability to cast mass breathing

Level 1 Spell: Niac's
Level 5 Spell: Ice Storm
Level 6 Spell: Cone of Cold
Level 7 Spell: Acid Fog (I dont think this fits but dont have a better suggestion right now)
Level 8 Spell: Horrid Wilting


Would love comments questions concerns and debate.

Absolutely L O V E it!!!!!!

There should be a down side........... I think a cost in AP would be more than suiteable

Made some changes in Bold and Under-lined

*WF get innate deathward like abilities - I cant disagree with domain clerics getting it
*Of course you should only be able to choose 1 domain
*I think you domain abilities should be linked to your uses of turn undead or become its own clicky (turn undead is pretty useless anyway)



Also I just noticed there are 5 pages worth of comments and the domains are changing with every page...... I still like what I am seeing though. Gotta comb thru all this one day soon.

[CrazySamaritan]

I'm still trying to determine whether I think domains are a good idea. Clerics are already pretty dang powerful.

I can see the problem, although I still recall the first few months of the game where I heard folks tell me, "Just stay in the back and heal, that's your job."

In addition, I think there's some very real danger in giving out Domain Powers this way. I mean, suddenly I can spend 2 AP for two very strong powers and just completely disregard the rest of the domain. I think to really work properly, domain powers should either be only on the top tier (in which case I might rework your tier levels, so they're more like 1/6/11) or make it so powers start weaker and also increase in power as you get the higher tiers.

Makes sense, although I'd argue that most powers should be a static bonus, not just a progressively stronger bonus. Some domains would operate fine with an increase at every level, I won't dismiss. Such as a 'Resistance' domain, which grants SR. Those domains giving a static bonus shouldn't have the bonus given later than 10th level in my opinion, though.

In addition, I think I'd require a "Follower of..." enhancement in order to get any domains. I know this deviates from D&D, and particularly Eberron, where you can just choose to worship "philosophies" but a) I've never cared for that rule and b) it helps balance these a bit more. This also helps balance the domains by ensuring that people can only get certain combinations instead of just picking the two most powerful ones. Alternatively, you could add a "Follower of..." type enhancement that just qualified you for any domains (but maybe you can't get all three tiers?). It's a thought.

STRONG objection to this; Unless you're willing to incorporate "Follower of Dark Six" or similar groups. The Host should have other enhancements opened for the individual good-aligned deities. But I'll admit my strongest objection comes from a similar place my problem with the current SMI-IX spells; My cleric never casts evil spells, and worships the Traveler.

Currently the game provides no visual incorporation of this.

But even with those changes, I think there's a very real danger here of making clerics too powerful within the context of DDO. I remain unconvinced that domains are something that should be added, even in a form this modified from the D&D rules.

I admit that, which is why I haven't pushed too hard. I'm satisfied with clerics as they are, and will start making more serious complaints at level 20.

[MysticTheurge]

STRONG objection to this; Unless you're willing to incorporate "Follower of Dark Six" or similar groups. The Host should have other enhancements opened for the individual good-aligned deities.

I'd hope whatever "Cleric Love" Mod saw Domains would also be accompanied by a broader set of "Follower of..." selections.

If we don't get them before then...