New Item Damage Penalty System Will Kill Pugging

[Yukiko]

People are over reacting to this change.
Its like saying "The sky is falling!"
Pugs wont die out. Thats just over reacting.
The problem you should really be thinking about is, "How can i profet from the new changes at the expence of others."
At least thats whats on my mind all the time

[Prinstoni]

I'm not sure if it will kill pugging, but I can garauntee that it will kill the game (so in a sense yes it will kill Pugging).

I don't like it, and most likely this will be it for me.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Version 1 of this plan was not only a pug killer, I think it might have been a major "I quit" factor for a lot of people.

The updated version of the death plan is reasonable. I still prefer the XP penalty but cash penalities at low level are fairly low and they should be managable at higher levels. They might be still a tad high, but the Devs have promissed to watch it. The last time the made such a promise was for Scale item repairs and that dropped from 10 relics to 5 and now to 3 so I have to say they kept their word on that end and thus I give them the benefit of the doubt here.

I'm also assuming of course they fix the bug that can let you get -2000 to saves

[Yukiko]

Ok, if any of you quit, I got dibs on your stuff, just remember that ok. Yu-ki-ko dont forget
But of course removing firewall scrolls from vendors killed the game a long time ago right? I mean everyone that ever played DDO quit after that one right? So i guess the only one in game is NPCs now
Someone always says X will kill the game because Devs dont love me enough. Suprise! Their always wrong! We are still here and will be for a long time i suspect. I can't honestly belive people are so SURE this is the end of DDO. It's just fear of change, like tiny fish in a pond, you scatter at the moment the smallest pebble falls into the water and 5 mins. later your back in the same spot again awaiting the next change in your enviroment.

[Haplo]

Just an observation here. This sounds exactly like you are saying "I had no problem with the old penalty since, when I was capped, it had 0 impact on me." That was one of the main issues, capped characters had 0 real penalty from dying.

Also, it's fairly insulting to say that Turbine is funding the plat sales, even if it was just meant as a little jab at them more than a serious comment

Additionally -- I really doubt the increase to the amount of repairs some people may experience will break anyone's bank.

While I admit I am not stupid-wealthy like a lot of people in the game, I still have a few hundred thousand plat across my characters, and I am a decidedly casual player who rarely if ever sells thing on the AH where I could maximize profits. So, I have to just wonder, like JJ here....who can't afford to repair the bejesus out of their gear all day long if needed?

Trelessia
14 Cleric
Trelanis

[Yukiko]

I know, repairs are so freeking cheap, and they are getting cheaper.

[Prinstoni]

I actually don't mind the damage penalty. I don't even mind having capped characters take neg levels on death, but I want XP to be part of death.

You died, and having gear damaged, okay, perm damage, I don't care (that much).

Plain and simple, I think the new death penalty is too easy to overcome for all level of characters. XP penalty on death is much more potent to lower level characters, and this penalty (as it stands with revisions) would be a nice addition only to capped characters.

XP debt on death is essential to slow the progression rate of characters. Without XP debt on death players will hit max level 2X as fast as they do now, and that means they will not stay, play, and pay as long as many of us have.

[MysticTheurge]

I know, repairs are so freeking cheap, and they are getting cheaper.

Not any more. With the removal of permanent damage from death-item-damage, the repair costs are staying the same.

But Eladrin is looking to add functionality to the repair skill which would, presumably, be free or cheap.

[Jaywade]

I agreee w/ above that posted that no neg xp means faster lvling...which means you cap faster which means unless you get "I have to create 9 alt sickness" this is going to get old for you quick....thing is this death effect won't mater at all....I mean you die up till lvl 10 no effects ...at lvl cap as long as you don't die a bunch of quick times (beholders or reaver lever or what have you) it odesn;t affect you....I think that a death should have some effect but I don;t want my gear affected... honestly the old system was fine ...never heard people complaining....even the well at lvl 19 you been losing 9k from a death...I'd say so who cares....what kind of xp should lvl 19 quest give (I'm thinking 50k range) not sure why they looked to changing this at all it doesn't make sense...

[skyking613]

I'm not sure if it will kill pugging, but I can garauntee that it will kill the game (so in a sense yes it will kill Pugging).

I don't like it, and most likely this will be it for me.

If no ones claimed it yet. Can I have his stuff??

[Yukiko]

Sorry, i claimed it already
I see money signs when people see trouble $_$

[skyking613]

Ok, if any of you quit, I got dibs on your stuff, just remember that ok. Yu-ki-ko dont forget

I guesse someone did beat me too it.

I'll thumb wrestle ya for it

[ArkoHighStar]

I agreee w/ above that posted that no neg xp means faster lvling...which means you cap faster which means unless you get "I have to create 9 alt sickness" this is going to get old for you quick....thing is this death effect won't mater at all....I mean you die up till lvl 10 no effects ...at lvl cap as long as you don't die a bunch of quick times (beholders or reaver lever or what have you) it odesn;t affect you....I think that a death should have some effect but I don;t want my gear affected... honestly the old system was fine ...never heard people complaining....even the well at lvl 19 you been losing 9k from a death...I'd say so who cares....what kind of xp should lvl 19 quest give (I'm thinking 50k range) not sure why they looked to changing this at all it doesn't make sense...

lets be honest how much did xp debt really slow you down, if you are crusing through this game running to lvl 14, you could level and alt in less than a week if you really wanted to, a lot of things slowed down me getting some alts up, but it was never xp debt. From a lot of the posts it appears that there are a lot of people taking their time with this game, some haven't even capped one char yet

[BurnerD]

People are over reacting to this change.
Its like saying "The sky is falling!"
Pugs wont die out. Thats just over reacting.
The problem you should really be thinking about is, "How can i profet from the new changes at the expence of others."
At least thats whats on my mind all the time

People overreact to anything that changes the status quo...


"Quit moving my cheese"

[DaveyCrockett]

a lot of things slowed down me getting some alts up, but it was never xp debt.

Yea, it was usually the builds

[Prinstoni]

lets be honest how much did xp debt really slow you down, if you are crusing through this game running to lvl 14, you could level and alt in less than a week if you really wanted to, a lot of things slowed down me getting some alts up, but it was never xp debt. From a lot of the posts it appears that there are a lot of people taking their time with this game, some haven't even capped one char yet

errrrr....maybe that is why those guys like the new death penalty?

[Shaamis]

Here is the deal:

New system lends to more damage per item, in a faster rate than the old system.

New system lends you to believe permanent damage will occur less often when you repair, hence items last longer.

But to look at the end result:

Average repair costs are 3000plat now, for a raid adventure/Threnal Elite run, on the old system, with normal chance of permanent damage....
With new system, average cost might double for a raid or Threnal, with half the chance of permanent damage.

That means more Plat out of the economy, because of repair.

[Zenako]

Well I have capped 4 characters now, but my first character I rolled up took almost 18 months to get there. (I had 3 others reach Rank 70 first). But all of them probably took close to a year. I play a lot, BUT, I play a lot of different characters as my whims dictate. I have gone well over a month between playing a certain character (except to clear out their mailbox) and then played them almost non-stop for a week to the exclusion of other characters.

I would seriously NOT enjoy rushing a character to cap in a week or so. That is just not my style or desire. Could it be done, sure, no doubt. Would I do it, essentially never.

If I had a character that died in quest and did not want to "waste" new experience offsetting debt, I would just switch to another character for a while. If you are the type of player who only has one "active" character, then getting hit with Debt would leave you only two options. Sit out a while so it can regen, or play and "waste" EXP on offsetting debt. That complaint was apparently often heard by Turbine.

Those of us who play a lot, know that EXP and PLAT are both fairly plentiful...BUT really only once you have it. If I have a single character, level 7 and no sugar daddy toons to hand me down stuff. Then the going is a lot slower and going to cost you more as a percentage of your available wealth. With twinked toons, you rarely die compared to only toons. Thus you have both less debt or exspenses to worry about. It is hard to put yourselves back into that new player flying solo mindset. I got to experience that a bit when I created a few characters on other servers. For those guys I had to earn stuff the old fashioned way. I had no Hagglemaster bard sending me stacks of Pots, no hand me down RR Armor and Weapons, just what I found, and death and dying were a lot more of a factor.

Now I personally did not have much of an issue with the old way, nor with the new system either. The one thing I think Turbine is missing however, is that in an attempt to create a one size rule fits all, is that there are distinctly two classes of characters in the game. Those still leveling up (for which EXP matters) and those who are Capped at the Artificial Cap created in the game (for whom EXP is irrelevant). A combined system would help address the percieved issue. Keep Death EXP penalties in game up to rank = MAX (currently 70). At Rank 70 when you die, you suffer "system shock" which is reflected on everything in your aura being potentially damaged as well. (I would either exclude everything in the backpack, or make the chances of damage for things like that as low or lower than currently exists, leaving only those items equiped at the moment of death subject to the death system shock.) Of course this all make little difference to me in the end, since I will just roll with the punches and keep on going, as I suspect the vast majority of players will.

[Yukiko]

I guesse someone did beat me too it.

I'll thumb wrestle ya for it

Don't worry abou it, when they leave there will be plenty of +2 and +3 items to go around, maybe a +4 here and there but lets see what they send me first.

[jjflanigan]

Here is the deal:

New system lends to more damage per item, in a faster rate than the old system.

New system lends you to believe permanent damage will occur less often when you repair, hence items last longer.

But to look at the end result:

Average repair costs are 3000plat now, for a raid adventure/Threnal Elite run, on the old system, with normal chance of permanent damage....
With new system, average cost might double for a raid or Threnal, with half the chance of permanent damage.

That means more Plat out of the economy, because of repair.

If your average repair costs after a raid are 30,000 gold, you need to reconsider your tactics, that's massively above what I've ever had to pay.