New Item Damage Penalty System Will Kill Pugging

[skyking613]

I dont get the amount of time to play that I would like (one week to cap? Get a life/job/GF) and I have basically stalled because of the penalty or fear of the penalty. I would much rather shell out some plat for my DP instead of having to spend more time and still have the posibility of dying again. If I run out of plat from repairing I know plenty of people that would donate to the person that keeps them alive,, I hope.


Has anyone said it yet? DM

[TFPAQ]

I'm more likely to PUG without having to worry about a bad PUG costing me game time. I think it is true for lots of casual players and the casual player is easiest on the system. (Just like new year gym memberships, pay the cash every month and don't use the resources, more equipment for me!)

Cash is easier to come by for me in game than time is to play from RL

[Yukiko]

Nah, with all these people leaving, you can just wear their equipment untill is broken too

[aldan]

I'm not sure if it will kill pugging, but I can garauntee that it will kill the game (so in a sense yes it will kill Pugging).

I don't like it, and most likely this will be it for me.

Is it really that bad for you. My gosh.......The penalty is really not that bad and the cost to repair is insignificant.

[MysticTheurge]

Here is the deal:

New system lends to more damage per item, in a faster rate than the old system.

New system lends you to believe permanent damage will occur less often when you repair, hence items last longer.

But to look at the end result:

Average repair costs are 3000plat now, for a raid adventure/Threnal Elite run, on the old system, with normal chance of permanent damage....
With new system, average cost might double for a raid or Threnal, with half the chance of permanent damage.

That means more Plat out of the economy, because of repair.

You're talking about the old new system. The new new system has no permanent damage from death-damage and keeps the same costs for repair and chance for permanent-damage as the old old system.

[Yukiko]

Is it really that bad for you. My gosh.......The penalty is really not that bad and the cost to repair is insignificant.

Hey, don't try to talk him out of it. Can you hear that echo?
Freeee....Stufff.....
If you see lemmings making a run for the cliff you don't try to stop them, you just go into the fur business.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Than don't PUG.
I don't even know why you guys complain about PUGs the way you do. Once you get out of the Harbor PUGs are not bad.
In fact, from what I've read on these forums, most of you are so Uber that your only real complaint about PUGs is that tey don't zerge fast enough for you.

If you have words of wisdom to impart on a group......do so.
If you know that someone shouldn't open a certain door or run down a hallway.....tell them.

The biggest problem I have seen from PUG raids...is eveyone who knows the quest runs off and leaves everyone else on there own....scattered around the dungeon.

If your group cannot handle something........slow down...........use some strategy. (Dying is not a strategy IMO)

Running from the badguys is sometimes a strategy.......if the rest of your bad PUG is getting themselves killed......it doesn't mean you have to die with them. Wait long enough in a safe corner and they'll eventually get bored enough to release.

These forums amaze me at how often the Uber will bash the non-uber.....when if you were really that good, you wouldn't need others to help you complete a quest..............don't blame your death on someone else. Yeah sometimes it happens......but it happens a lot less when you do a quest your level.........you know, not doing POP (on elite) when you are lvl 10 (or lower).

[Vizzini]

/signed

I'm not sure if it will kill pugging, but I can garauntee that it will kill the game (so in a sense yes it will kill Pugging).

I don't like it, and most likely this will be it for me.

[parvo]

I've been talking to everyone and the consensus is that the chances of them pugging after the change
will be slim to none. The most change of death occurs in a pug.

hmm...and all this time I was under the impression that PUGers killed PUGing

[skyking613]

You're talking about the old new system. The new new system has no permanent damage from death-damage and keeps the same costs for repair and chance for permanent-damage as the old old system.

Im holdin out for the new new new system
Not a big fan of the old new old one

[Emili]

I have to admit the old system was cheap and easy... XP was and is cheap and easy to come by. My first toon took considerably longer to cap to ten (like 2-3 weeks) then the others ... Rosewood my second character she capped in 4 days. You know what? It was all in running in PUGS back then also. These days I stay primarily with guildies rather then pugs because I'm guilded and fill with guildies then put up the LFM instead of just hopping on and putting up an LFG. However, if I really wish to level a toon quickly I pug it.

I really liked the old XP death penalty, even though I know it meant nothing to a capped toon... to me it meant nothing really to a non-capped toon either. However, since the dev's determined it turned people away from the game - in thier exit polls - I will accept that. I'm not keen on the death penalty costing me cash as that is something which does not come easy to me or I suppose it might have but I shared it and gave away items enough that I never did mount up ... so now it may change my attitude about game money. Will make me think twice before giving items away.

Truth is, as I consider what the devs account for the death penalty change, and you my fellow DDO players, is that somewhere we failed as players. If people were leaving the game because they could not level due to xp debt ... that was our fault, not the games, not the dev's but our fault as being seasoned players ... that we did not take the time to care for these people who are green or new to the game and pass along the most important resource in the game... more important than plat, more important than items, more important than leveling to the next cap ourselves... that resource is friendship. It is friendship that fosters the openess of sharing game knowledge of quests, builds, it is friendship which makes you wish to pass along that uber item... but most importantly it is friendship which creates an atmosphere fostering fun.

This brings me to be totally honest here... there is nothing in the game really in a mechanic which can kill a PUG - nothing turbine can throw at you can or will do this. The things which can kill a PUG are greed, selfishness and mistrust... if you decide not to take a pug because they might mess up - get themselves killed, get you killed, wipe a party - what you're really saying is they slow me down from getting my loot quick enough, they slow me down from getting my xp quick enough, they slow me down from getting my raid loot.... If this is where our priorities are and not the welfare of our fellow player or the growth of our online friendship - it actually says something terrible about us as a community, now does it not? Should our time not be spent better fostering each other, our friendships and extending our hands out to others we've yet to meet, rather then putting our effort into a group of pixels.

[Taojeff]

I've been talking to everyone and the consensus is that the chances of them pugging after the change
will be slim to none. The most change of death occurs in a pug.

You people kill me, its not that much money.

[MysticTheurge]

You people kill me...

ZOMG The new item damage penalty system killed Taojeff too! First PUGs! Then the game! Now Taojeff!

WILL IT NEVER END?!?!?!?!?

[Yukiko]

You people kill me, its not that much money.

These are the same people that never give clerics a heal wand or donations.. ever..

[Emili]

ZOMG The new item damage penalty system killed Taojeff too! First PUGs! Then the game! Now Taojeff!

WILL IT NEVER END?!?!?!?!?

LMAO!

[Vorn]

<snip>
Truth is, as I consider what the devs account for the death penalty change, and you my fellow DDO players, is that somewhere we failed as players. If people were leaving the game because they could not level due to xp debt ... that was our fault, not the games, not the dev's but our fault as being seasoned players ... that we did not take the time to care for these people who are green or new to the game and pass along the most important resource in the game... more important than plat, more important than items, more important than leveling to the next cap ourselves... that resource is friendship. It is friendship that fosters the openess of sharing game knowledge of quests, builds, it is friendship which makes you wish to pass along that uber item... but most importantly it is friendship which creates an atmosphere fostering fun.

This brings me to be totally honest here... there is nothing in the game really in a mechanic which can kill a PUG - nothing turbine can throw at you can or will do this. The things which can kill a PUG are greed, selfishness and mistrust... if you decide not to take a pug because they might mess up - get themselves killed, get you killed, wipe a party - what you're really saying is they slow me down from getting my loot quick enough, they slow me down from getting my xp quick enough, they slow me down from getting my raid loot.... If this is where our priorities are and not the welfare of our fellow player or the growth of our online friendship - it actually says something terrible about us as a community, now does it not? Should our time not be spent better fostering each other, our friendships and extending our hands out to others we've yet to meet, rather then putting our effort into a group of pixels.

My favorite post of the day. Thank you.

[Swordalot]

There is a perfectly reasonable and logical solution that many seem to be overlooking.

Are you ready?

Don't die.
Seriously, not dying isn't *that* hard if you have a halfway-competent cleric.

So this change isn't outrageous, it isn't going to make you spend 50-bazillion plat. Besides, if you die enough times that you actually spend, say... 5000 plat in one quest repairing, maybe you should modify your playstyle or get a new healer.

[Mercules]

Besides, if you die enough times that you actually spend, say... 5000 plat in one quest repairing, maybe you should modify your playstyle or get a new healer.

Please chose the former, if you do you don't need a "Healer".

[Emili]

Please chose the former, if you do you don't need a "Healer".

No he's correct... some people just do not play a healer well. I ran the Pit on elite the other day, saw a LFM and joined it because my wizard needed the favor. The cleric in the group I do not believe knew what a cure spell was as most the time I found myself carrying the WF barb and Halfling rogue in my purse and while running along-side the cleric all asking him to res them as I needed someone to help me with the bloody values for the air blast things to climb up for the switches... took this cleric forever to res people, I went thru a ton of mana keeping myself buffed and quite a few cure potions myself. Seems the cleric was just there to cast damage, CC and get the friuts of favor themselves while I in turn tried to keep a party together. Managed the complete though but I felt bad for the other party memebers, cleric included as had they played better I would not have had to solo more than half myself and they would have had some fun.

Point being... not all people in a group are the same silked wise or experience wise - outside the game... people tend to expect everyone is on board with the same ideas and knowledge or should I say caliber. Then when they find out differently they become judgemental. Instead of trying to help each other out they become condescending even scolding sometimes. It can lead to driving a wedge between them - over a sillly game. The example above is a play style change due to the cleric not really participating ina group effort. A change non-the-less it ruined the fun of the other party members, it increased the time it took for us to complete it and taxed my resources more rather then using the rest of the parties resources to compensate.

[isldur]

There is a perfectly reasonable and logical solution that many seem to be overlooking.

Are you ready?

Don't die.
Seriously, not dying isn't *that* hard if you have a halfway-competent cleric.

So this change isn't outrageous, it isn't going to make you spend 50-bazillion plat. Besides, if you die enough times that you actually spend, say... 5000 plat in one quest repairing, maybe you should modify your playstyle or get a new healer.

I agree except for the cleric part. Clerics are nice to have, good or bad, but it ends up being your life.
Go into the quest thinking the worst. Be prepared for it. If the cleric (if there is one) heals well, you can relax a little. If not, realize this and adjust your tactics.

Here is an example of a recent good pug, with no clerics and one bard. The bard isn't spec'd for healing but has a few wands. After a near wipe, it was refreshing to see the pug members jump out of battle and swig potions, or wand whip. The barb still jumped into the fray first but just didn't stay there swinging till his last hit pts. The wiz still firewalled, but used other crowd control first. People actually waited for the bard to facinate things and attacked them one at a time.

It was amazing and refreshing to see.