Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[Jacoby]

This is not a good thing Turbine. You are dissenfranchising players. This change is not needed or wanted.

[SableShadow]

Is it possible to 'grandfather' permanent damage already accrued to bound items? That is, remove permanent damage currently existant on bound items prior to the change? If, going forward, bound items take no permanent damage, why not reset existing ones to no perm damage?

[Prinstoni]

Well it sems the devs are set in implementing the system, and I am confident it is going to make the difficult even more difficult (via item damage and negative level penalty). Although I dislike the proposed death penalty, and I firmly believe there needs to be an XP death penalty associated with death, I am confident that no matter what sensible arguments we make at this point, it will make no difference in the devs decision.

The question we should be asking now is considering these changes to the way death will penalize characters, what are we getting in return to maintain game balance?

[moorewr]

The question we should be asking now is considering these changes to the way death will penalize characters, what are we getting in return to maintain game balance?

Game balance? It will now be too attractive to die relative to other options (if you aren't capped), but what to do about it? Up the difficulty of quests?

In my opinion we end up with more capped characters, somewhat less plat in their inventories, and somewhat higher relative scarcity of the most desired item types. As usual it wont matter much except to serial martyrs.. who will level quicker and thus we may see more weak players in the upper levels...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

My comment wasn't aimed at those that disagree with the current proposed changes. It was aimed at a comment that making anything easier is never a good idea.

Ah, my bad. You didn't quote anyone in your response so I misread the context.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Is it possible to 'grandfather' permanent damage already accrued to bound items? That is, remove permanent damage currently existant on bound items prior to the change? If, going forward, bound items take no permanent damage, why not reset existing ones to no perm damage?

Somewhere in one of these threads either Codog or El said that they wanted to put in place a method for removing perm damage on bound items but that it wouldn't be in mod 6.

[Pellegro]

Dragonscale repairs are still of great concern to me, though I'm not sure if I'll be able to get an ideal solution done in for The Thirteenth Eclipse.

Cool. Mod 6 has a name.

[MysticTheurge]

The question we should be asking now is considering these changes to the way death will penalize characters, what are we getting in return to maintain game balance?

You're getting a new death penalty in order to maintain game balance.

[Malachi_Stormlight2]

Cool. Mod 6 has a name.

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that lol.... and the name kinda sounds Monk related too

[Greyfire]

I'm trying to understand how this will apply to wands. Wands have durability 5/5 and hardness 5. My character is 10th level so he'll be getting hit with the 9% damage bracket, reduced by 2% to 7% With a hardness of 5, dividing that by 10 yields another adjustment of 0.5%. Would that round up to 1% or down to 0%? So the damage is either 7% or 6%. Not much difference as the damage would be either 0.35 or 0.30. Would that round down to zero, meaning the wand does not get damaged at all? Or is there a minimum damage that I'm not seeing?

Now keep in mind I am only considering a disposible item equiped at time of death. What I worry about is that I might have to leave the adventure to go repair (or repurchase) items needed to continue a run. Coming back in will give me an XP penalty I'd rather not have, as well as slow the entire adventure down. Personally, I'd prefer a flat death tax to a sliding penalty item damage tax, but I can't fight the will of the Devs. It kind of sounds like this is designed by someone from the IRS, but I'll roll with it. I might like it once I've played with it for a while.

Thanks for clearing things up and helping me understand what I'm missing.

-=- Steve

[ebt-dnd]

It strikes me as a zerg tax more than anything else (to slow down the game). But the problem is, the "good" zergers usually don't die. So it's going to penalize everyone else more than who the developers are really targeting...

[arcsonist]

So does this mean that we will once again stop pugging for the sake of not damaging our unbound equipment and do plat farmers have a new means in which to make money by selling these new fragments. awesome turbine just what I wanted for christmas more junk mail.

[Da5h-au]

I think the death damage on dragon scale armors/robes should be repaired with no relics, and normal damage still repaired with relics. That would solve the problem with dragon scales armors/robes.

I 100% agree with the comment. Also stated elsewhere the damage to Dragon Scale is ridiculous. I have traced my progress and it takes me on an average 9 dragons to get one scale. - A lot of effort for one set (225 Dragons) for my Blue Robes. Now put that with relics, luckily for me Dragon (PoP) which of late has been only dropping 1 per elite run and the Dragon Robe I went through so much heartache to get now become a major anchor that will require me to constantly run a min of 3 PoP to repair.

Now you will probably say don’t die. Good luck to you, but the amount of times I have been one shot killed (Finger / PK / Disintegrate), not to mention pulling agro with a fire wall. You tell me, what to I do? Pack the amour away - too time consuming to keep running, of get a cant roll a 1 spell to stop instant death.

I have been in Risa, although I was negative to the whole Death Penalty to begin with, apart from the damage side to Dragon Robes (Because of its repair system), the system works OK. Gear is damaged (repaired with no permanent effect - just money), you lose levels (Temporarily), actually makes a death meaningful and something to be avoided if possible. the Rolls of a 1 - well that the luck of the dies. However, the ZERGERS, well maybe they will stop it after being down 5 levels.

My 2 cents worth.

[MysticTheurge]

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that lol.... and the name kinda sounds Monk related too

We noticed it. We just noticed it when Kate Paiz said it in the TenTonHammer interview:

Kate: Absolutely. Our next release is going to be Module Six, which will be our fifteenth live update. The module is called the Thirteenth Eclipse, and it’s scheduled to release sometime in January. In this update we’re going to be introducing a completely new storyline centered around the invasion of an army of devils into Eberron. The players are going to have to combat the devils on an all new landscape called the Veil of Twilight as the Plane Shavarath is being interwoven into the very fabric of the player landscape.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I'm trying to understand how this will apply to wands. Wands have durability 5/5 and hardness 5. My character is 10th level so he'll be getting hit with the 9% damage bracket, reduced by 2% to 7% With a hardness of 5, dividing that by 10 yields another adjustment of 0.5%. Would that round up to 1% or down to 0%? So the damage is either 7% or 6%. Not much difference as the damage would be either 0.35 or 0.30. Would that round down to zero, meaning the wand does not get damaged at all? Or is there a minimum damage that I'm not seeing?

In testing with the 10% damage on Risia it rounds up.

[Greyfire]

In testing with the 10% damage on Risia it rounds up.

Thanks! I was worried about that rounding up would be the rule. I'm still a little worried what that means to my stuff, but I'll adapt. I calmed down a lot when my wife pointed out that the op said "equipped items" and not "all carried items". Losing one wand is not going to stop a run. Now the third time I get killed and lose a wand, that'll be a different story but that many deaths will mean I'm doing something wrong.

Good hunting!

-=- Steve

[Hvymetal]

This is not a good thing Turbine. You are dissenfranchising players. This change is not needed or wanted.

Perhaps you should qualify that statement as your opinion.....

[bellack]

Agreed. Here's a vote for putting them back to single use.

Actually I think they should be on a timer. Once you use a shrine then you have to wait x minutes before using it again. Also the Healing shrines should be the same way. And of course we should keep the XP penalty and capped characters be damned. We can't have the gamed be ruined because Turbine won't extend the cap to 20th level. Once I reach cap I stop playing and move to the next character until the cap is extended.

[bellack]

I've said it before, in this very thread I think, but it bears repeating:

Not everyone plays this game for "challenge". Many play it as a social release. To them, making things harder is not fun or rewarding. They just want something to do with their hands while they gab with their friends, and cool pics to look at while they do it (preferably of something dying).

The best thing Turbine can do to cater to the most players possible would be to make "Normal" SUPER easy (catering to the social players) and "Elite" SUPER hard (catering to those who enjoy the challenge aspects). The "Hard" setting should be reserved for what they deem to be a good balance.

I am of the opinion that allowing the repeat use of shrines on normal, as well as scaling up the difficulty of traps on elite, are both excellent steps in the right direction. IIRC, both are coming in Mod 6.

Hopefully going forward, they will continue in this philosophical direction, thereby pleasing the most players, increasing revenue, so they get a larger art resource budget, so we get more stuff.

Well if you are just playing for the "Social Release" then I suggest playing 2nd Life. Its all about "Social Release" And it's super easy. Then the devs can get back to making this game a challange like it should be.

[Yukiko]

A patch that makes dieing suck. Wow, Who would have thought dieing sucks?
The new death system is not bad. Im in favor of any system the eliminates "dieing" as a tactic.