Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[Kerr]

It kind of puts off the big 400 lb gorilla in the corner for the time being. In that eventually uber items will be so plentiful as to make the game almost trivial.
If everyone walked around with a vorpal, a banisher, a disruptor, what kind of thing does that do?

First thing I'd do as a coder would be to remove Smiter, Disruptor, Banisher, Paralyzer, Vorpal from the random loot tables. Only allow those effects to drop on named items, not part of random treasure generation.

And yes, I say this not even owning one vorpal and only owning two paralyzers, two disruptors (one can't even use yet) and one disruptor.

[Pellegro]

Thanks Eladrin for the update, and thanks for the change.

I know its too late at this poitn, and this will get me crucified ...

But since we now have "on death" damage, the purpose [perhaps one purpose? maybe not] of which is to stop/slow down death as a tactic, and there is 0% chance of it becoming permanent damage ....

My question is - are the % of damage high enough to deter death?

It seems like you'd have to die 10+ times to have an item become unusable, right? And before that, there's no effect at all?

Maybe I'm missing it. But anyhow, there is my question. Seems like you can still die as much as you'd need in any quest and then just repair and voila ...

Post-Script: I suppose it still functions as a death-tax, which perhaps was the whole point anyway.

[Coldin]

Everything's useful! Even if it's just as raw materials.

Oh no! I've said too much!


Adamantine Ritual I:
Device Requirement: Stone of Change
Materials: 10 Adamantine Ore, 10 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +10 Durability. Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

Not bad. Of course if things bound can't take permanent damage, is there really a point? Or is attuned different than bound?

I wonder what those essence of earth are?

[ArkoHighStar]

Not bad. Of course if things bound can't take permanent damage, is there really a point? Or is attuned different than bound?

I wonder what those essence of earth are?

no but it could keep the weapon usable longer in a dungeon

[Pellegro]

Everything's useful! Even if it's just as raw materials.

Oh no! I've said too much!


Adamantine Ritual I:
Device Requirement: Stone of Change
Materials: 10 Adamantine Ore, 10 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +10 Durability. Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

Crafting is coming, crafting is coming.

[GeneralDiomedes]

It's not any more likely or unlikely than it was under the old system.

There is a way to fix that though, which still falls into the compromise bucket: bind all named items and end rewards.

We have compromised on the item damage side (by making it inconsequential), let us now compromise on the binding side.

[Dirkan]

Can we please have 400 Free Agent and House P favor apply everywhere instead of one place each?

[Mercules]

I used to keep the kits, but to be honest it used to take up too much room, now if I am building something new I plan a bit and buy on the Auction house what I need, most lowbie items have decent buyouts, and continue to drop all the time. There are only a few things that have to be passed down, or kept, and those are +1 elemental weapons ( whenever I get one in a drop people wonder why I get excited), and mithral armor, everything else you can buy or farm on mid level quests for.

I usually have a Glove-Ring-2 Goggles set about. Not the lower level ones but I find buying/finding the +5 and +7 to be difficult for me so I keep those about. Currently they are on my Cleric/Rogue and I think I am going to start a new Dragonmarked Halfing Rogue.

[xman26]

Yes, the other things got set back to what we have right now.

As a tidbit for the future, I'd like to get a Repair skill revamp done as well, for in-dungeon repair. That's too complex for M6, but we'll get it done as quickly as we can.

Can we unbind items? If not, this is still not a perfect system. I like many others who have voiced their concern in the other thread like to pass down equipment to our new lower toons or around with our guild members and friends. Unbinding should be an option aswell. I gave a nice way it could be added so that even it has a cost. Unbinding could cost 30-50% of the items original durability. Thus limiting the amount of times it can be unbound as the new durability would become the items new default durability for the next unbind.

[ArkoHighStar]

There is a way to fix that though, which still falls into the compromise bucket: bind all named items and end rewards.

We have compromised on the item damage side (by making it inconsequential), lets compromise on the binding side.

you could not do that at least not retroactively, then you have items gotten before the change ( which will be worth even more now) and then items aqcuired after the change. Sorry if I pull a kardins eye on my fighter I want to decide which of my toons gets it.

[Kerr]

Adamantine Ritual I:
Device Requirement: Stone of Change
Materials: 10 Adamantine Ore, 10 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +10 Durability. Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

What's a Soul Gem? The things Wizards do when using Trap the Soul? So this is going to be an Arcane caster focused creation system? Nothing wrong with that, just would love to hear more information on it.

But beyond that.. one thing I must ask .. is PLEASE if we're going to be farming stuff for crafting, PLEASE provide more bank space and crafting components bags.

[ArkoHighStar]

Can we unbind items? If not, this is still not a perfect system. I like many others who have voiced their concern in the other thread like to pass down equipment to our new lower toons or around with our guild members and friends. Unbinding should be an option aswell. I gave a nice way it could be added so that even it has a cost. Unbinding could cost 30-50% of the items original durability. Thus limiting the amount of times it can be unbound as the new durability would become the items new default durability for the next unbind.

adding that much damage to an item is pointless just so you can unbind it becasue al you have to do irebind it and it will sit in stasus on your new char. Really the only reason people will bind items is if they have already taken a lot of perm damage already, and they want to freeze that, or they want to enhance a generic item

[ArkoHighStar]

What's a Soul Gem? The things Wizards do when using Trap the Soul? So this is going to be an Arcane caster focused creation system? Nothing wrong with that, just would love to hear more information on it.

But beyond that.. one thing I must ask .. is PLEASE if we're going to be farming stuff for crafting, PLEASE provide more bank space and crafting components bags.

I can see it now kobold island becomes soul gem farming central

edit we get an ingredient bag in mod 6, Eladrin can you make it large size

[xman26]

No one is going to be surprised, I am sure, but I totally agree. It's bascially what I was trying (albiet badly) to get across in the other thread. The XP debt thing was broken and had to be taken out. This is no different, the economy is going to HAVE to be adjusted somehow at some point. It'll be interesting to see how that gets accomplished. Time will tell, I suppose

Says you, i still say as many other do, there was nothing wrong with it.

[Darth_Sizzle]

Yes, the other things got set back to what we have right now.

As a tidbit for the future, I'd like to get a Repair skill revamp done as well, for in-dungeon repair. That's too complex for M6, but we'll get it done as quickly as we can.

Hey E - you realize when/if this is implimented we're gonna need a skill re-spec

[xman26]

adding that much damage to an item is pointless just so you can unbind it becasue al you have to do irebind it and it will sit in stasus on your new char. Really the only reason people will bind items is if they have already taken a lot of perm damage already, and they want to freeze that, or they want to enhance a generic item

I disagree. Lets say you already have a +1 Vorp BS of BS and its bound to your fighter. During mod 6 you come across a +3 Vorp BS of Disruption(doubt it would exist, but just follow along ok), now wouldn't you like to pass along your original, bound weapon to say your new lower level fighter for use so you can continue keep the new and improved one you just received by unbinding the old one. Or you would rather sell the old one for 10% its value, not be able to use it anymore other than on that one character and now have to vorp type weapons on one toon? That doesn't make much sense to me.

[moorewr]

Thanks for the update, El. The changes are a good compromise. I remain concerned that death is overly trivial at low levels. Your first two deaths at level 2 gives you no debuff, and no item damage at all, and only 1% thereafter. That's trivial enough to have lowbies dying for cheese like capped characters do now.

I was pondering this all today -- we ran Ataraxia slayer with a level 7-10 group today, no cleric, and we had a good bit of dying. I dropped once and I was staring at that little (-600) on my 9th level character while it was there. Death debt is almost laughable until levels 10-12 now, and it still wont deter you much in the new system.

Two questions. 1) When will the changes be placed on Risia? and 2) Is there a Negative Level bug? Dariun and I posted some images from Risia on the Death Feedback thread that had hair-raising numbers like -121 to hit and -63 Fortitude Saves.

[GeneralDiomedes]

you could not do that at least not retroactively, then you have items gotten before the change ( which will be worth even more now) and then items aqcuired after the change. Sorry if I pull a kardins eye on my fighter I want to decide which of my toons gets it.

That's fine. I'm not particularly worried that rare items will be worth a lot, as they are already worth a lot.

As for binding, bind to account is one option; as is the destructive unbinding that was mentioned by xman. Maybe we just bind end rewards (as you get a choice of many). The point is, somehow a compromise has been made to appease the masses which didn't actually fix much. People will seemingly not let _anything_ between themselves and their loot. Something should really be changed on the bind-on-aquire side of things.

[MysticTheurge]

I can see it now kobold island becomes soul gem farming central

edit we get an ingredient bag in mod 6, Eladrin can you make it large size

I doubt soul-trapping kobolds is going to make a "Soul Gem: Essence of Earth."

Edit -- Hey, isn't essence of earth already one of those collectibles you get from elementals? Same thing or different?

[Kerr]

Can we unbind items? If not, this is still not a perfect system. I like many others who have voiced their concern in the other thread like to pass down equipment to our new lower toons or around with our guild members and friends. Unbinding should be an option aswell. I gave a nice way it could be added so that even it has a cost. Unbinding could cost 30-50% of the items original durability. Thus limiting the amount of times it can be unbound as the new durability would become the items new default durability for the next unbind.

Unbinding should cost min level ^ 4 or 5 to be unbound.