Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[ccheath776]

It kind of puts off the big 400 lb gorilla in the corner for the time being. In that eventually uber items will be so plentiful as to make the game almost trivial.
If everyone walked around with a vorpal, a banisher, a disruptor, what kind of thing does that do?

Well from a developer side you have to make the game a challenge so then what happens is you get more over the top and unfun quests like the Abbott so the powergamers can have their crack while us casuals are left in the cold unable to do the higher end stuff not having the time to grind to get the better stuff.
Its what happened in the card game MTG. Eventually it got to a critical mass point where the game was simply not playable anymore as there was a noticeable gap between the haves and the have nots. So much so that they had to revamp the rules to counter it.

So now instead of having a mechanic that reduce uber loot you have one that keeps it at the same rate it is now.
Which is ok for the current time frame but in the future its going to cause a major economic crash in the system.
The scenario is that every one playing will have a million plat or more, everyone will have a vorpal or disruptor. And to not have one is to be considered gimped.
People flood to the AH's looking for these weapons which are amazingly abundant and cheap. People buy them up with their new found wealth. The pooring of money into the system and to players is massive and inflation ultimately sets in as posters have to raise prices trying to get as much as they can but it has the reverse effect as suddenly everyone has all of the most uber weapons available, 20 million plat, and the demand drops sharply as everyone has attained what they want.
Suddenly quests become easy, new raids are beaten in a matter of hours not days after release, devs become frustrated and go out and design these overly massively difficult quests with bosses that kill you on zone in.

Maybe it wont happen. Maybe it will never happen.
IN the end I like the change, it makes everyone happy. Bravo to the devs for listening.
But it doesn't change the problem eventhough it is small at the moment.
I think this will have to be addressed again down the line at some point. The issue is do we deal with it now or later.
Looks like later.
Not mad, or complaining but it is something to consider.

[ccheath776]

binding an item still prevents perm damage, there are those who would do it just for that, especially older items that have taken a lot of damage over time and can now find a final home on on e character, rater than sit in the bank hoping some day they reverse perm damage

Well, there is that. Now if on bind we could rename it....

"My precious...oh yesss... my precious..My birthday present!!!"

[Ron]

It kind of puts off the big 400 lb gorilla in the corner for the time being. In that eventually uber items will be so plentiful as to make the game almost trivial.
If everyone walked around with a vorpal, a banisher, a disruptor, what kind of thing does that do?

Well from a developer side you have to make the game a challenge so then what happens is you get more over the top and unfun quests like the Abbott so the powergamers can have their crack while us casuals are left in the cold unable to do the higher end stuff not having the time to grind to get the better stuff.
Its what happened in the card game MTG. Eventually it got to a critical mass point where the game was simply not playable anymore as there was a noticeable gap between the haves and the have nots. So much so that they had to revamp the rules to counter it.

So now instead of having a mechanic that reduce uber loot you have one that keeps it at the same rate it is now.
Which is ok for the current time frame but in the future its going to cause a major economic crash in the system.
The scenario is that every one playing will have a million plat or more, everyone will have a vorpal or disruptor. And to not have one is to be considered gimped.

No one is going to be surprised, I am sure, but I totally agree. It's bascially what I was trying (albiet badly) to get across in the other thread. The XP debt thing was broken and had to be taken out. This is no different, the economy is going to HAVE to be adjusted somehow at some point. It'll be interesting to see how that gets accomplished. Time will tell, I suppose

[Tolero]

I agree with Tekno here the debate was very important and without it the devs would not have seen the divide that exists among the many player bases that make up this game, often it was not the straigt feedback but the results of the arguments that actually brought out the best ideas, those who simply said I like it, or I hate it were not the ones who got this change done, it was those who debated and argued with their fellow players trying to offer something more than just a yeah or nay.

All feed back is important. Whether you have a mound of data to back up your thoughts and feelings, or you just can't quite put your finger on why you don't like (or do like) something and just want to say "I like!" or "I don't like" ... granted the WHY you don't or do like is much MORE helpful.

ALL feed back is valuable from all play styles

[dragnmoon]

Maybe it wont happen. Maybe it will never happen.
I think this will have to be addressed again down the line at some point. The issue is do we deal with it now or later.
Looks like later.
Not mad, or complaining but it is something to consider.

wait.. are we talking about Global Warming?...

[LOUDRampart]

Interesting system. Glad the devs are listening and putting thought into it.

[MysticTheurge]

It kind of puts off the big 400 lb gorilla in the corner for the time being. In that eventually uber items will be so plentiful as to make the game almost trivial.
If everyone walked around with a vorpal, a banisher, a disruptor, what kind of thing does that do?

It's not any more likely or unlikely than it was under the old system.

[ArkoHighStar]

It kind of puts off the big 400 lb gorilla in the corner for the time being. In that eventually uber items will be so plentiful as to make the game almost trivial.
If everyone walked around with a vorpal, a banisher, a disruptor, what kind of thing does that do?

Well from a developer side you have to make the game a challenge so then what happens is you get more over the top and unfun quests like the Abbott so the powergamers can have their crack while us casuals are left in the cold unable to do the higher end stuff not having the time to grind to get the better stuff.
Its what happened in the card game MTG. Eventually it got to a critical mass point where the game was simply not playable anymore as there was a noticeable gap between the haves and the have nots. So much so that they had to revamp the rules to counter it.

So now instead of having a mechanic that reduce uber loot you have one that keeps it at the same rate it is now.
Which is ok for the current time frame but in the future its going to cause a major economic crash in the system.
The scenario is that every one playing will have a million plat or more, everyone will have a vorpal or disruptor. And to not have one is to be considered gimped.
People flood to the AH's looking for these weapons which are amazingly abundant and cheap. People buy them up with their new found wealth. The pooring of money into the system and to players is massive and inflation ultimately sets in as posters have to raise prices trying to get as much as they can but it has the reverse effect as suddenly everyone has all of the most uber weapons available, 20 million plat, and the demand drops sharply as everyone has attained what they want.
Suddenly quests become easy, new raids are beaten in a matter of hours not days after release, devs become frustrated and go out and design these overly massively difficult quests with bosses that kill you on zone in.

Maybe it wont happen. Maybe it will never happen.
IN the end I like the change, it makes everyone happy. Bravo to the devs for listening.
But it doesn't change the problem eventhough it is small at the moment.
I think this will have to be addressed again down the line at some point. The issue is do we deal with it now or later.
Looks like later.
Not mad, or complaining but it is something to consider.

You seem to think that these awesom weapons will actually be useful at higher levels, let me tell you they are not

Paralysers, in mod 6 they will paralyse maybe 5% of the mobs
banishers are not really effective part level 10, in fact they are useless as the average hd of mobs at these lvls, surpasses that which the item can banish
disrupters, in mod 5 dps was juat as fast to take out undead unless you got a lucky roll
smiters, again you need a crit just like banishing, only a few weapons where this is even useful, like scimitars, rapiers and falchions, again unless you get lucky dps will kill it first.
vorrpals needs a 20 doesn't work on mob bosses its a fun weapon but you swing and you swing and... well you get the picture

the true powerhouse weapons will be the ones created in the eldritch furnaces and will never be traded, where hopefully I can create a holy burst transmuting rapier of greater evil outsider bane

[Eladrin]

You seem to think that these awesom weapons will actually be useful at higher levels, let me tell you they are not

Everything's useful! Even if it's just as raw materials.

Oh no! I've said too much!

Oh yeah? Like what?

Adamantine Ritual I:
Device Requirement: Stone of Change
Materials: 10 Adamantine Ore, 10 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +10 Durability. Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

[Mercules]

You seem to think that these awesom weapons will actually be useful at higher levels, let me tell you they are not

Agreed, but we also have the issue of the people who have the "level 5 Rogue kit" that they pass around every time they reroll. This makes the creating a new character even less fun since you can aquire those items that are part of the play reward on a different character or just buy them and there is another aspect of lower level play that becomes dull. Now there really is less incentive to spend time at the lower levels for some people.

What we have in DDO is an economy where money/items keep coming in at a rate that greatly exceeds them leaving. That is just not a functioning economy. Sure it shouldn't be real life worthy or take a financial analyst to figure out, but it should at least try for X=Y.

[Emili]

Yeah... the Developers don't listen to feedback my butt.

Thank you Eladrin for the updated information. The recent upswing in communication is heartening.

I like it. Die too many times and the gear you have equipped is demolished till you can repair it. Good plat sink, fears about hard to find items being lost are gone. The De-buff is nice and fitting from "shock".

Someday there will be a good mechanic to address the over abundance of good items in the game, but I can understand the change away from this system doing that.

Again... THANKS!

Aye, I've the same sentiments... it allows players to keep the items unbound thus allows sharing them with others when upgraded or a reasonable open market on the items.

[ArkoHighStar]

Everything's useful! Even if it's just as raw materials.

Oh no! I've said too much!


Adamantine Ritual I:
Device Requirement: Stone of Change
Materials: 10 Adamantine Ore, 10 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +10 Durability. Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

Hi Ho Hi Ho its back to BAM we go, Hi Ho Hi Ho

[Aesop]

Yes, the other things got set back to what we have right now.

As a tidbit for the future, I'd like to get a Repair skill revamp done as well, for in-dungeon repair. That's too complex for M6, but we'll get it done as quickly as we can.

Warforged Rejoice1. Maybe finally someone in the group will have repair Thanks for the update El

Aesop

[Eladrin]

I guess I should have blocked out the materials, rather than cause a mad rampage to the BAM, huh?

[totmacher]

Everything's useful! Even if it's just as raw materials.

Oh no! I've said too much!

SWEET!!!

I have many ventilated bracers, demon scale armors and rattle charms awaiting destruction for raw material

[dragnmoon]

Everything's useful! Even if it's just as raw materials.

Oh no! I've said too much!


Adamantine Ritual I:
Device Requirement: Stone of Change
Materials: 10 Adamantine Ore, 10 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +10 Durability. Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

See there you go Eladrin... now you just started a whole new argument on farming for components..

Eeek... I sooo hope this is not an indication on where crafting is going in the future.. (Though most likely is)

[ArkoHighStar]

Agreed, but we also have the issue of the people who have the "level 5 Rogue kit" that they pass around every time they reroll. This makes the creating a new character even less fun since you can aquire those items that are part of the play reward on a different character or just buy them and there is another aspect of lower level play that becomes dull. Now there really is less incentive to spend time at the lower levels for some people.

What we have in DDO is an economy where money/items keep coming in at a rate that greatly exceeds them leaving. That is just not a functioning economy. Sure it shouldn't be real life worthy or take a financial analyst to figure out, but it should at least try for X=Y.

I used to keep the kits, but to be honest it used to take up too much room, now if I am building something new I plan a bit and buy on the Auction house what I need, most lowbie items have decent buyouts, and continue to drop all the time. There are only a few things that have to be passed down, or kept, and those are +1 elemental weapons ( whenever I get one in a drop people wonder why I get excited), and mithral armor, everything else you can buy or farm on mid level quests for.

[Tolero]

I guess I should have blocked out the materials, rather than cause a mad rampage to the BAM, huh?

Ah but what about the OTHER cool things? VAST AND MYSTERIOUS! *amnesia dust*

[ArkoHighStar]

See there you go Eladrin... now you just started a whole new argument on farming for components..

Eeek... I sooo hope this is not an indication on where crafting is going in the future.. (Though most likely is)

yeah I pretty much assumed we would have to farm for something, at least it is not pelts to make masterwork leather armor nobody will buy, it is too make magic items better

[Serpent]

Thank you Eladrin, this is a very well thought out compromise. Thank you again.