Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[smatt]

so the new mod 6 death penalty has no chance of inflicting permanent damage. bull ****. in the 1st day of the new mod in the 1st 2 min of the adventure i broke 4 weapons n destroyed my armour. upon repairing every item that was damaged took permanent damage. 2 boot what used 2 b an average of between 2 to 4k gp now has increased by about 100 fold. in 2 days of runniung new content it has cost me well over 200k gp to repair. i am just an average lowly player n at this rate i will not b able 2 repair or buy supplies in about 3 weeks. which is about 3 weeks b4 current subscription is up.
2 make matters worse now in order 2 prevent perm damage i must bind my gear 2 my toon. this means no more hand me downs 2 lower lvl alts. this sound fair 2 anyone. plus where r all these shards n fragments that we r suppose 2 get 2 do this binding. since the new mod i have seen none n i am all but flagged 4 the new raid. i am not happy with the new death penalties but hey im just 1 person. im sure all u uber players out there r just as pleased as punch with yourselkves after all keep it up n u will have us mediocre players run out of the game n u can have it anyway u like. for those of u that r like minded as i am lets send a message 2 the powers that b. i propose a boycott of ddo 4 a month. start it on the 1st of march n run it through the 31st of the month. i am quite confident that there will b reprocussions from the powers that b so i will take full n sole responsibility 4 suggesting this and organizing this. if the gm's want me banned permanently so b it i ghave already cancelled my subscription n unless things r made a little better then i will not b renewing my subscription. they could also take away all my toons n my gear n force me 2 start from scratch, no big deal i cant get any good loot pulls anyway. never have in over a yr pulled any n yes i mean any loot over a base gp of 50k gp. so no big deal 2 me. i know i am dreaming n a boycott of this nature will never transpire but what a message we as the paying customer could send if we just made up our unified minds 2 stick 2 our guns. i will b posting this thread on all the servers n in as many guilds as i can get 2 cooperate so who knows whats gonna happen.
Khronus-Aundair
Capt. Ranger Battalion
Adventure Inc.

Ummmmmm... Nope doesn't happen.. And you die way too much.. Sorry, something is wrong here really ....

[smatt]

Every run I have done today, without fighting any rusties or slimes (mind you I'm a wizard) I have taken permanent damage. Armor, weapons (including a banishing rapier and my +4 twilight mithril chain shirt), Jewelry are *ALL* hit with perm damage.

Yes, expert repair is in use.

Yes, I'm ****ing ****ED.

Intersting, i've been running the heck out of the new content and today was the first day I took permenant damage. It was my paralyzing great-axe, after a rusty snuck into a huge mixed mob mess in Rainbow Fricken thing broke it.... Repaired and took a coupld points of perm dam... But other than that, no permenant damage at all. I've played 8-14 hours a day since new mod came out.... I average about 4k g to repair when I die every once in a while.... No bigee.... I'm still making easy bank.. Not sure how people are going broke.... Not sure about all the perm dam either... Completely oppposite of what I'm experiancing....


I for one liketh enew system, but also beleive they should put back the XP debt as well

[Dariun]

I haven't been around much (on forum or in game) lately, but just wanted to say I'm very very happy to see the XP debt mechanic gone.

It makes exploring new quests or trying old ones on hard/elite much more fun and I don't feel like I've "wasted" my time if I happen to die twice during a session.

Thanks.

[Ilandrya]

If death penalty damage is calcualted at a flat % of the item which means that all items, regardless of durabilty, can survive the same amount of deaths before breaking/needing repair, is the cost of the repairs to the portion of the damage to items caused by the death penalty calculated by the % of damage an item has sustained, or by the amount of durabilty needed to repair the item? If it's the latter, this isn't a fair system, since ultimately its our pocketbooks that the penalty is really affecting if perm damage is now preventable with binding and anything that breaks can be replaced with a backup until it can be repaired.

I have a feeling that on some runs I'm going to be wishing that the *insert random class here* in the party that is costing me a fortune in not only healing supplies but repairs to my armor was a blacksmith instead. I'd like a spell that allows me to turn people who are costing me way too much into blacksmiths who must work off their debt to me through indentured servitude. Ok.... well, maybe thats a bit much....

[TiberiusofTyr]

Intersting, i've been running the heck out of the new content and today was the first day I took permenant damage. It was my paralyzing great-axe, after a rusty snuck into a huge mixed mob mess in Rainbow Fricken thing broke it.... Repaired and took a coupld points of perm dam... But other than that, no permenant damage at all. I've played 8-14 hours a day since new mod came out.... I average about 4k g to repair when I die every once in a while.... No bigee.... I'm still making easy bank.. Not sure how people are going broke.... Not sure about all the perm dam either... Completely oppposite of what I'm experiancing....


I for one liketh enew system, but also beleive they should put back the XP debt as well

I've seen a slight increase in permanent damage for my items, but nothing off-the-wall. I don't have access to expert repair on any of my characters. I am still making money on these quests.

[Gornin]

Well, I guess I am the only one still having problems. This new Death penalty stinks and it is unbalanced. I am not earning money and taking permanent damage way too often. I didn't die last night at all on my wizard, and was not in any melee and I took permanent damage on my robe, bracers and boots. True they aren't bound, but I have never taken permanent damage on my wizard ever. And I can only seem to keep even on money on any of my characters, and I am running 1 or 2 quest a night on hard usually. I have had only a couple of items that were worth more than 72k for end rewards or loot. I have to keep sending stuff to a bard to get top price to keep even. Guess I'll have to build a haggle bot.

If we keep this penalty, it seriously needs some tweaking.

[GlassCannon]

Well, I guess I am the only one still having problems. This new Death penalty stinks and it is unbalanced. I am not earning money and taking permanent damage way too often. I didn't die last night at all on my wizard, and was not in any melee and I took permanent damage on my robe, bracers and boots. True they aren't bound, but I have never taken permanent damage on my wizard ever. And I can only seem to keep even on money on any of my characters, and I am running 1 or 2 quest a night on hard usually. I have had only a couple of items that were worth more than 72k for end rewards or loot. I have to keep sending stuff to a bard to get top price to keep even. Guess I'll have to build a haggle bot.

If we keep this penalty, it seriously needs some tweaking.

I am experiencing a great deal more grief over simple questing without death than I was before this accursed change. Sure, I level faster, but capping comes far too early at that rate, and all my Twink Gear pulled in Module 1 and Module 2 is at less than 50% durability due to THIS MODULE ALONE. When I repair from 3 damage(I repair a lot more often now), my weapon takes 6 permanent damage. When I repair from a ring damaged by 4 points, it takes 8 permanent damage.

I want an explanation as to whether this is intended or not.

I would also like a retroactive change that removes permanent damage incurred within the last module's timeframe on all items/weapons/armor pulled before February 2008. An alternative would be a smith that repairs all permanent damage on items at a very small charge(due to all my characters having less than 5k plat... yes, I said 50,000 gold.).

[Strykersz]

I am experiencing a great deal more grief over simple questing without death than I was before this accursed change. Sure, I level faster, but capping comes far too early at that rate, and all my Twink Gear pulled in Module 1 and Module 2 is at less than 50% durability due to THIS MODULE ALONE. When I repair from 3 damage(I repair a lot more often now), my weapon takes 6 permanent damage. When I repair from a ring damaged by 4 points, it takes 8 permanent damage.

I want an explanation as to whether this is intended or not.

The amount of permanent damage the item takes is determined by how much permanent damage it has. Thus, you should be seeing more permanent damage now than you have in the past for items from Mod 1/2(because your items have more permanent damage now than they did in the past). However, the number of instances of permanent damage which you are incurring should be unchanged(overall; you will be repairing more frequently but the % chance of taking permanent damage should be proportionally less each time you repair. I'm not certain this is correct because I don't know whether or not the percentage chance of taking permanent damage is based upon the total durability or the total durability - permanent damage).

[MysticTheurge]

When I repair from 3 damage(I repair a lot more often now), my weapon takes 6 permanent damage. When I repair from a ring damaged by 4 points, it takes 8 permanent damage.

Not only is this impossible given the equations for permanent damage...

DEATH DAMAGE DOESN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO DEAL PERMANENT DAMAGE.

Ever. If you're getting permanent damage it's not because of the item damage you take when you die.

[Gornin]

Not only is this impossible given the equations for permanent damage...

DEATH DAMAGE DOESN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO DEAL PERMANENT DAMAGE.

Ever. If you're getting permanent damage it's not because of the item damage you take when you die.

We know it is not SUPPOSED too, but I did a Reaver run on my wiz and only got hit once by a disintegrate spell and died. I had perma damage on my robe and everything was repaired before I went into the raid. No, I am not mistaken, so don't go there.


BTW, this still sucks overall. It is causing this casual player not to want to play because I can't afford to keep my self stocked up on pots and things. Don't tell me I die too much either, because I don't.

[jjflanigan]

We know it is not SUPPOSED too, but I did a Reaver run on my wiz and only got hit once by a disintegrate spell and died. I had perma damage on my robe and everything was repaired before I went into the raid. No, I am not mistaken, so don't go there.


BTW, this still sucks overall. It is causing this casual player not to want to play because I can't afford to keep my self stocked up on pots and things. Don't tell me I die too much either, because I don't.

I would imagine disintegrate has a high chance to cause damage. Odds are very high it took normal item damage from getting hit with the disint, then the death damage. The normal damage triggered a permanent damage on it, not the death damage.

I play a lot and I solo / small group a lot so I tend to get myself into more issues than a normal grouping player and I've had 0 issues with the costs of the repairs and still doing my normal routine with wands and potions. If the cost is outweighing your gains then, I'm sorry, but you ARE dying too much.

[MysticTheurge]

We know it is not SUPPOSED too, but I did a Reaver run on my wiz and only got hit once by a disintegrate spell and died. I had perma damage on my robe and everything was repaired before I went into the raid. No, I am not mistaken, so don't go there.

You probably rolled a 1 on your save. Which means your items took damage from the spell.

It was repairing that damage, not the death damage, that resulted in permanent damage.

[Gornin]

You probably rolled a 1 on your save. Which means your items took damage from the spell.

It was repairing that damage, not the death damage, that resulted in permanent damage.

Disintegrates spell description (PHB) clearly states that the if you fail your save, you take up to 40d6 damage and if your HP reaches 0, you turn to dust, leaving all of your equipment behind, so that should not happen, even on a 1. There is no indication that gear can be damaged. If DDO is different, elucidate me please, because I know that it may differ.

I believe that there may be a possibility of that mechanic not always working properly. I am taking perm damage like have never before on characters that don't melee at all or have the enhancements to help mitigate it. The only corallary I can see is if I died or not.

[Hakushi]

It's different in DDO, your equipment can take damage from spells like disintegrate, you were unlucky.

[Gornin]

It's different in DDO, your equipment can take damage from spells like disintegrate, you were unlucky.

Can you please show me where this is stated?

[MysticTheurge]

It's different in DDO, your equipment can take damage from spells like disintegrate, you were unlucky.

No. Actually, it's the same in DDO.

Damaging Magic Items

A magic item doesn’t need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...gingMagicItems

[Gornin]

The disintegrate spell specifically states that the equipment does not get damaged. And spell description trumps general rules.

[Selinius]

Simple solution Gornin, bind your stuff.

But on a more serious note, where does it say that spell discriptions trump general rules? Not to mention I am getting hit by a spell that is turning me to dust so it is going to have to touch me. If it hits me, it is probably going to hit what I am wearing, so why wouldn't the spell damage my stuff? Yes it will turn the least durable material (your flesh) into dust, so why couldn't it do damage to your gear. Also, the disintigrate spell is either a single target spell or is can target a 10' X 10' X 10' cube of material if I remember correctly. So a spell that can turn a 10 foot cube of solid stone into dust is going to very polietly turn me to dust and leave all my high priced gear alone for some later fool to find? Doubt it.

[MysticTheurge]

The disintegrate spell specifically states that the equipment does not get damaged. And spell description trumps general rules.

There's no reason disintegrate should work differently for these purposes. The line you're referring to is simply a generality. Under normal circumstances, a disintegrated creature's equipment is unaffected.

[Gornin]

Spell descriptions have always taken precedence to general rules due to the fact that most spells break the rules. Spell descriptions would be useless unless they took precedent. Yes, disintegrate does damage non living items only when specifically targeted. The spell is targets only one object at a time, whether it is living or inanimate, there is no overflow, backlash or any other thing that would damage surrounding materials/persons. That is why the spell description states clearly that equipment drops in a heap if you are killed by this spell.

I have bound a few items, but a robe of power X is not really worth it.

Sorry MT, I have to disagree here and I guess this would be a DM call. Usually the spell description specifies if there is an additional effect if a 1 is rolled. There is no special effect on most spells when a 1 is rolled, and this should be no different, especially when the spell description states that your equipment is unaffected any other time. The line is not a generality, the spell only targets and effects one object at a time.

@jjflanigan: No, I don't die too much. As stated many times in this thread, I don't play enough to loot run, I am notorious for poor loot pulls and most of my deaths are due to lag or connectivity issues. Yes, when the content was new I did die a little more, but I am very familiar with the content now and I usually only die due to bad luck like the disintegrate spell ( which I never knew he casted ). I don't believe that someone who can take his rogue into rainbow at level 13/1 on elite for his first run and not die at all and find/disable traps is someone who dies too much. And he was second in the kill count below the sorc and above the fighter.


My issue is I am sure this mechanic is not always working properly, and the cost is prohibitive to the casual gamer. I don't have the time to go on loot runs to pay for this new cost. At least when it was XP loss, all I had to do was do some more questing, not dedicate some time to loot runs. The only people who don't have a problem with this are the power gamers who have the time to do so. I hope E is still looking at this thread occasionally. I think most others have given up on talking about this on the forums, but I hear similar problems in game almost every day. I can give several other examples, whether personal or anecdotal when it happens to guild/party members.