Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[smatt]

I have a question. If a item is wore down by death, does that make it easier for it to wear down while using it? And if it does, does anyone else see a problem with it?

Also on another note, How many people will be doing the hard quest like GoP after this goes into effect?

Well right now on Risia, unbound items still can take permenant damage from death, they haven't changed that yet. But when they do death CANNOT cause permanant damage, only repairable damage. And it's jsut like any other damge, when it gets beyond worn it's broken and needs to be repaired before you can use it again. it might get a bit dicey with items if peopel have itmes that are really close to being permantly broken already. They might only die 1 or 2 times before that item cannot be used till repaired.

There needs to be somekind of penalty for death, I didnt' mind the XP debt thing at all. I don't really mind this system either. I'm easy though I just go with the flow..

[smatt]

OK, went and tested it...... I was owned by Dolloruh LOL 5 quik deaths in rapid succesion at a shrine. then a rez out.... Each neg level was removed after 1 min, so the longest you could be down would be 5 minutes at or above level 13. There is a 60 sec counter, when it counts down, 1 level is removed and it starts over. You also get DM text in your chat log that tells you what level of death penalty your're at each time.

[Riot]

On top of everything, I'm also pretty mystified with the choice to use a negative level as a deterrent.

Wasn't part of the issue about retaining players?

If a non-hardcore player dies, gets a negative level isn't he now more vulnerable to dieing again? And accelerating the frustration?

Their other choice is to sit and wait. Which creates one of two dilemmas.
One, they were waiting anyway to heal back up at a tavern and the negative level basically has ZERO effect. ]
OR two, you've just asked them to sit on their rumps and do nothing, which again (according to those very players, adds to boredom and results in accelerating frustration).

I suppose I fail to see the issue with the current XP debt system.

in my opinion the issue of meaningless deaths at the XP cap had more to do with Reusable Rez Shrines, lack of content or incentive to stay maxed on XP, and the sheer plethora of bindable locations.

Stormreach isn't big as is, and being able to bind on every quests front door step doesn't add to the sense of danger at all.
Anyone remember when dying in VoN 3 and having burned the shrine use "MEANT Somthing?"
That was about as dangerous as DDO has ever been.

[MysticTheurge]

Wasn't part of the issue about retaining players?

From my experience, as a new player in games that had similar penalties, any kind of temporary penalty (especially one I can actually see the timer counting down on) isn't a big deterrent to me playing the game. It's probably enough to make me want to avoid dying (so I don't spend a few minutes working at lower capacity and, as you say, risk dying again), but I still know that if the **** hits the fan and I do die, then it's not going to set me back hours of play time or give me any huge lasting penalties.

[Riot]

I guess I just don't understand how one death, at low levels, sets you back "Hours of playtime".

If you die, why can you no longer play? What was preventing you from your playtime?
Exactly how were you "set back"?

I've played lowbies, I just don't see how that's possible, unless you are extremely lazy. And that being the case, isn't that more of a player issue than a game issue?

[MysticTheurge]

I guess I just don't understand how one death, at low levels, sets you back "Hours of playtime".

Well, in DDO I didn't start to feel the pinch until mid-levels 4-7-ish at that point.

If you die, why can you no longer play? What was preventing you from your playtime?
Exactly how were you "set back"?

I was set back because a) I wanted to level up, b) I was playing to acquire XP in order to do so, c) a bad run in a PUG + several deaths meant I lost a significant amount of XP that I had spent hours earning.

I've played lowbies, I just don't see how that's possible, unless you are extremely lazy. And that being the case, isn't that more of a player issue than a game issue?

Seriously, Riot? People who don't like the XP-based Death Penalty are just lazy?

I know you can do better than that.

Edit -- But honestly, just for the sake of argument, couldn't the same thing be said of people who don't like a monetary death penalty? Your whole objection to the new system is based around not wanting to have to loot-run? I don't see how that's a problem "unless you are extremely lazy. And that being the case, isn't that more of a player issue than a game issue?"

(That said, I still don't see how you're going to even be forced to loot run. At 5-6 hundred plat a death, are you really saying you die at a rate, during the course of your regular play, that would make that cost higher than the rate at which you acquire money, during the course of your regular play?)

[xman26]

Well, in DDO I didn't start to feel the pinch until mid-levels 4-7-ish at that point.



I was set back because a) I wanted to level up, b) I was playing to acquire XP in order to do so, c) a bad run in a PUG + several deaths meant I lost a significant amount of XP that I had spent hours earning.



Seriously, Riot? People who don't like the XP-based Death Penalty are just lazy?

I know you can do better than that.

Edit -- But honestly, just for the sake of argument, couldn't the same thing be said of people who don't like a monetary death penalty? Your whole objection to the new system is based around not wanting to have to loot-run? I don't see how that's a problem "unless you are extremely lazy. And that being the case, isn't that more of a player issue than a game issue?"

(That said, I still don't see how you're going to even be forced to loot run. At 5-6 hundred plat a death, are you really saying you die at a rate, during the course of your regular play, that would make that cost higher than the rate at which you acquire money, during the course of your regular play?)

I only play 2 nights a week, during that time, I spend it running quests(usually 2-3 a night) So If I tie my time up running quests for favor/XP, that leave little time for loot runs, or if I loot run, it leave me little time for XP/favor runs. While the new system maybe fine for people such as yourself who propably play 5 days a week for about 6 hours each time, it is going to kill those who play far less. The XP debt system worked and should be left alone, but the devs are clueless. Besides, I think they want this game to die so they can all go work on LotR. Level 18 leet run quests with a max lvl cap of 16(whoes brilliant brain dead head came up with this idea?), yeah, with the new system, that is a sure fire way to hav tons of deaths and force people to not run anything.

FYI, I average close to 5k plat per repair cycle, this new death system is going to kill me.

[MysticTheurge]

FYI, I average close to 5k plat per repair cycle, this new death system is going to kill me.

Seriously? How do you pull that off?

Are you waiting til everything is completely destroyed and then repairing it all at the premium repairer?

As for your play style, the solution is simple: die in a number of times proportionate to your play style. If you only play 4 hours a week and you die once, then all you need is about 750 plat total in order to make up for it.

If you play 4 hours a week and die 20 times, then yeah, you have a problem.

[moorewr]

Seriously? How do you pull that off?

Are you waiting til everything is completely destroyed and then repairing it all at the premium repairer?

As for your play style, the solution is simple: die in a number of times proportionate to your play style. If you only play 4 hours a week and you die once, then all you need is about 750 plat total in order to make up for it.

If you play 4 hours a week and die 20 times, then yeah, you have a problem.

He's obviously slipped a digit on the costs (as others have done. Even top-notch gear only generates 500 plat worth of repairs for a level 14 character. That's not nothing, but it is less than the cost of the raise dead scroll the cleric used on you. Did you remember to tip your cleric?

I guess I just don't understand how one death, at low levels, sets you back "Hours of playtime".

If you die, why can you no longer play? What was preventing you from your playtime?
Exactly how were you "set back"?

I've played lowbies, I just don't see how that's possible, unless you are extremely lazy. And that being the case, isn't that more of a player issue than a game issue?

XP debt seems almost meaningless at level 1-7 and level 14. Dying and failing to finish a quest at 10th or 11th level did set me back a long way coming up the ranks.. it could be quite demoralizing to finish, say South Threnal, and realize I was still in XP debt and as far from level 11 as ever.

it still hurts to die a those levels but I die a lot less now I can make it up quicker since I do more guild runs and less PUGs than I did back then.

[MTG]

Well I see it this way with the new system if you die it 500pp right but no loss of xp meaning you will level faster, but if you are running things for favor and your not going to get any xp for doing it ie some thing 6 levels below you, you shouldn't be dieing.

[xman26]

Seriously? How do you pull that off?

Are you waiting til everything is completely destroyed and then repairing it all at the premium repairer?

As for your play style, the solution is simple: die in a number of times proportionate to your play style. If you only play 4 hours a week and you die once, then all you need is about 750 plat total in order to make up for it.

If you play 4 hours a week and die 20 times, then yeah, you have a problem.

Easier said than done. PUG groups suck for this reason, hell, sometime doing a straight guild run can be painful. Ran Inferno over the weekend with my guild, group stayed together, and 3 of us(me included) still died 4 times, party wipe twice on normal setting. Usually get thru it with only 0-1 toon dieing out of the group. Somethimes, doing quests the right way, the way they worked very good on in the past can still bite you in the a$$.

[Mad_Bombardier]

He's obviously slipped a digit on the costs (as others have done. Even top-notch gear only generates 500 plat worth of repairs for a level 14 character. That's not nothing, but it is less than the cost of the raise dead scroll the cleric used on you.

On the nose, moorewr. What's more funny is that over the course of the discussion, he originally said 3k pp, then 4k, now it's 5k. I don't think lava baths and perpetual death by Flamestrike can generate that much repair cost. Maybe if you only repaired once a month and let all your gear get down to 10% durability. But, that's about it.

[xman26]

He's obviously slipped a digit on the costs (as others have done. Even top-notch gear only generates 500 plat worth of repairs for a level 14 character. That's not nothing, but it is less than the cost of the raise dead scroll the cleric used on you. Did you remember to tip your cleric?





XP debt seems almost meaningless at level 1-7 and level 14. Dying and failing to finish a quest at 10th or 11th level did set me back a long way coming up the ranks.. it could be quite demoralizing to finish, say South Threnal, and realize I was still in XP debt and as far from level 11 as ever.

it still hurts to die a those levels but I die a lot less now I can make it up quicker since I do more guild runs and less PUGs than I did back then.

You only wish I was off with WHAT IT COSTS ME TO DO REPAIRS.

[xman26]

Well I see it this way with the new system if you die it 500pp right but no loss of xp meaning you will level faster, but if you are running things for favor and your not going to get any xp for doing it ie some thing 6 levels below you, you shouldn't be dieing.

could be running lvl10,11,or 12 quests that i've had on norm or hadr for the last 6-8 months. safe to say on leet i'd be getting XP for those.

[Laith]

You only wish I was off with WHAT IT COSTS ME TO DO REPAIRS.

we'll probably be needing a screenshot to that effect...

[moorewr]

You only wish I was off with WHAT IT COSTS ME TO DO REPAIRS.

I expect you pay 500pp (5,000 gp) for one death. Post some screen shots, would you?

EDIT: Hey Laith, jinx!

[xman26]

On the nose, moorewr. What's more funny is that over the course of the discussion, he originally said 3k pp, then 4k, now it's 5k. I don't think lava baths and perpetual death by Flamestrike can generate that much repair cost. Maybe if you only repaired once a month and let all your gear get down to 10% durability. But, that's about it.

Actually, if i remember corectl, my first post on repair costs was 3-5k plat. most recent reapir ran my 5kp, weekend before was 29000g or 2.9k plat. weekend before that was like 3.8kp. so unless you are playing my guy, oh you aren't me so you can't be playing him or paying his repair bills, you have no clue what it costs me to repair my gear.

[xman26]

we'll probably be needing a screenshot to that effect...

Be happy to after I run some this weekend. And I can remember to take the screenie.

[Laith]

nm, MT's suggestion is better

[MysticTheurge]

we'll probably be needing a screenshot to that effect...

Better yet, go to Risia, repair everything, go into the Vale, die once, go back and repair everything, and screenshot that number.

Then multiply that number by 2 (since Risia still has half-costs for repairs). That'll actually be what you'll pay for each death.